Greencard Category is subject of persecution by COP officials

[Uniller]

Ha, it looks a lot of asylees changed their view of going back as soon as they get green card. Their parents get more tendency of becoming critically ill, and the number of "significant other" dramatically increases.

Without this AS6 thing, I would expect this asylum program to be fraud jackpot.

 

[wii]

Let me get this right. USCIS puts AS6, 7, 8 codes on green card to prevent asylum fraudulence? Please explain.

Ha, it looks a lot of asylees changed their view of going back as soon as they get green card. Their parents get more tendency of becoming critically ill, and the number of "significant other" dramatically increases.

Without this AS6 thing, I would expect this asylum program to be fraud jackpot.

 

[Uniller]

Let me get this right. USCIS puts AS6, 7, 8 codes on green card to prevent asylum fraudulence? Please explain.

Of course that is not their intent.

But, if they do not do that, how much percentage of those people will go back? 85%? 90%? 95%? At least now there is some deterrence so people know there may be some consequence.

 

[wii]

Your argument is inconsistent.

Is it a deterrent for asylum fraud or is it a deterrent for GC holders from asylum to visit home country?

Anyway, I think it's understood that we're discussing leaving the category out of the physical card. Not to get rid of the categories all together. The category should be brought up on the computer once the green card is swiped or the A# is keyed in.

Anyway, I expressed my opinion. Enough said on this topic.

 

[Samson777]

Uniller has prejudice tone in his words. Wii, you have a better reasoning, please accept my humble respect. I believe this forum was created to inform immigrants and find the best solution for their immigration problems. I know my English is not as good as Uniller and others, but I share the same concern that other DA's have. I have been in the country for over ten years, during that time my beloved brother had passed away, followed by my father two years later. Even though I have GC, but I dared not to travel because I'd like to avoid being caught by COP official. Now my mom is very sick, and I still can't travel to COP because of the category in my CG is AS7. This is going to be my last chance to see her. That's why I have a deep regret, why my GC category is AS7.

 

[Triple Citizen]

Firstly I am sorry to hear about your personal losses.
However I am little confused about your complaint. You fear that officials from your COP will give you a hard time as soon as they see any asylum related code on your GC. So you want USCIS to change the code on your GC. Your complaint is, the US hasn't done enough for you. You think this is unfair.

I ask you just one question, the US has given you permanent abode in this country away from your COP, what more do you want?

Uniller has prejudice tone in his words. Wii, you have a better reasoning, please accept my humble respect. I believe this forum was created to inform immigrants and find the best solution for their immigration problems. I know my English is not as good as Uniller and others, but I share the same concern that other DA's have. I have been in the country for over ten years, during that time my beloved brother had passed away, followed by my father two years later. Even though I have GC, but I dared not to travel because I'd like to avoid being caught by COP official. Now my mom is very sick, and I still can't travel to COP because of the category in my CG is AS7. This is going to be my last chance to see her. That's why I have a deep regret, why my GC category is AS7.

 

[Samson777]

This is what I read from other member of this forum:
"3 Derivative asylees allowed to travel to the principal's country of persecution
A large question which has faced many immigration attorneys over a number of years has been what advice to give to families of asylees who hold dependent asylee status and wish to return temporarily to the homeland of their principal's persecution. U.S.C.I.S. in the past has been mum on the subject. The main argument for allowing the families to travel is that they themselves are not necessarily the persecuted, but the family members, and their ability to travel back and forth unimpeded by the home government should not deprive them of their status which is dependent upon family connection with the principal asylee. The fear of derivative asylees wishing to travel back to their homelands has been that U.S. Customs and Border Enforcement (CBP) would intercept them at the airports or other ports of entry and place them in removal proceedings for not having a valid fear of persecution. U.S.C.I.S. released a fact sheet in January 2007 which spoke of the risks of travel for asylees, but did not address the issue of derivatives. We (along with undoubtedly others) raised this question for the American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) to bring to the attention of U.S.C.I.S., and U.S.C.I.S. fortunately answered the question at the Asylum Headquarters/ Non-Governmental Organization liaison meeting on March 6, 2007, in Washington D.C..

The answer provided was that the fact sheet was just a clarification of the rules and made no policy changes -- that derivative asylees are permitted to travel to the principal's country of persecution. As they were not granted asylum on their individual cases, CIS would not seek to terminate their asylum status upon such travel. However, U.S.C.I.S. noted that normal procedures would still have CBP questioning the derivative asylees when they reenter the United States.

U.S.C.I.S. headquarters further spoke on the effect of a short trip by the principal asylee to the homeland of persecution in stating that such would most likely not be considered reavailment (availing oneself again to a country's protections) by noting that reavailment is really about establishing ties and not about visiting family. However, readers should note that further questions may arise with CBP if principal asylees obtain passports or extensions of passports from the homeland of persecution prior to traveling. Also that the term "short trip" was not defined (is it two weeks or 90 days or 6 months?), nor the situation in which a businessman travels to the homeland for several short trips per year on behalf of his or her employer. Principal asylees appear have a partial but not complete answer as to their ability to travel to the homeland of persecution, and should remain cautious in planning such trips."

Since USCIS aware of the derivative asylee situation(DA), I hope that USCIS will change the DA's category to something else to prevent persecution to DA's when they travel to COP. That's why in the early posting, I raised question about the possibility to file class action about this.

 

[raevsky]

Would a derivative asylee's status be taken away if s/he were to return back to COP?

Yes, he or she could, depending on the circumstances. For instance, for using the person's national passport issued by any of the countries of his citizenship.
However, if you are traveling for a brief visit to see a sick or ailing relative (not using the national passport) - that is OK.

Like myself..... I've been living here for the past 4 years and I currently live here as a derivative asylee ( which got approved last year ). I'm thinking abt going back home last this year and I have two options. 1. Fly back home directly. 2. Fly to a neighboring country and use my citizenship to fly/drive to my COP. Problem is, if I chose the second option, I'd be paying around $400 for visa just because I'd be using the RTD.

The second option also disqualifies you from returning into US as an asylee, because you are using your national passport to enter your country of nationality. The first option is not like that.

 

[raevsky]

This is the UN definition of refugee (in the US UN refugee is a common name for refugees and asylees)

"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.."

Being a derivative asylee makes you a subject to those requirements. Otherwise you stop being an asylee. It does not even say anything about COP. Only about country of nationality. We know derivative asylees do not have COP, because they were not required to be persecuted to get derivative asylee status. But the definition does not use the term COP. So, derivative asylees still are subject to the definition, which talks only about the country of nationality of the asylee.

DAs exist because of the following clause:

(Principle of unity of the family) (1)
The Conference,
considering that the unity of the family, the natural and fundamental
group unit of society, is an essential right of the refugee, and that such
unity is constantly threatened, and
noting with satisfaction that, according to the official commentary of the
ad hoc Committee on Statelessness and Related Problems (E/1618, p. 40),
the rights granted to a refugee are extended to members of his family,
recommends Governments to take the necessary measures for the protection
of the refugee’s family especially with a view to:
(1) Ensuring that the unity of the refugee’s family is maintained particularly
in cases where the head of the family has fulfilled the necessary
conditions for admission to a particular country,
(2) The protection of refugees who are minors, in particular unaccompanied
children and girls, with special reference to guardianship and adoption.

So, in order to be a DA you are not required to be persecuted. But you could still lose asylee status (even DA's) if

C. This Convention shall cease to apply to any person falling under the
terms of section A if:
(1) He has voluntarily re-availed himself of the protection of the country
of his nationality; or
(2) Having lost his nationality, he has voluntarily re-acquired it, or
(3) He has acquired a new nationality, and enjoys the protection of the
country of his new nationality; or
(4) He has voluntarily re-established himself in the country which he left
or outside which he remained owing to fear of persecution; or
(5) He can no longer, because the circumstances in connexion with which he
has been recognized as a refugee have ceased to exist, continue to refuse
to avail himself of the protection of the country of his nationality;
Provided that this paragraph shall not apply to a refugee falling under
section A(1) of this article who is able to invoke compelling reasons arising
out of previous persecution for refusing to avail himself of the protection
of the country of nationality;
(6) Being a person who has no nationality he is, because of the circumstances
in connexion with which he has been recognized as a refugee
have ceased to exist, able to return to the country of his former habitual
residence;
Provided that this paragraph shall not apply to a refugee falling under
section A (1) of this article who is able to invoke compelling reasons
arising out of previous persecution for refusing to return to the country
of his former habitual residence.

Using national passport for travel to the country of nationality deisqualifies the DA from being an asylee. Sorry.

 

[raevsky]

All I said in my last two posts is applicable only to those asylees, who do not have a GC. LPR is a completely different matter, even if he or she is a former asylee.

 

[raevsky]

Since USCIS aware of the derivative asylee situation(DA), I hope that USCIS will change the DA's category to something else to prevent persecution to DA's when they travel to COP. That's why in the early posting, I raised question about the possibility to file class action about this.

Mainly answering this. USCIS cannot change laws, especially international ones. Even the Congress would hardly create US refugee laws contrary to UN convention on refugees. At least I believe that will never happen.

 

[wii]

raevsky,

are you an attorney? you seem to know a lot.

Mainly answering this. USCIS cannot change laws, especially international ones. Even the Congress would hardly create US refugee laws contrary to UN convention on refugees. At least I believe that will never happen.

 

[raevsky]

No, I am not. Not an attorney, I mean.

 

[Samson777]

Thanks Raev, however the topic of this post was "Greencard Category" that endangered the holders, in this case the derivative asylee (DA). I fully understand what you have elaborated. If you have any other thought regarding the Greencard Category on DA, please share with me, I need to visit my mom desperately, but I afraid will be persecuted by the official from COP because they might read my Greencard category as AS 7. I don't give a damn for somebody saying that I'll be deported in the port of entry in the US.

 

[thankful]

Thanks Raev, however the topic of this post was "Greencard Category" that endangered the holders, in this case the derivative asylee (DA). I fully understand what you have elaborated. If you have any other thought regarding the Greencard Category on DA, please share with me, I need to visit my mom desperately, but I afraid will be persecuted by the official from COP because they might read my Greencard category as AS 7. I don't give a damn for somebody saying that I'll be deported in the port of entry in the US.

using a reentry permit to enter and leave cop is something worth thinking about.

 

[raevsky]

If you apply for a visa to your country of nationality (to be put into reentry permit), they will see you were born in that country (if you were). Most likely you will need to show your GC to get a visa, because they would want to see if you are a refugee or an asylee.
That is the way some European countries do. Some of them (if you do not have citizenship in that county) will give you a visa into reentry permit or refugee travel document only if you are a refugee or asylee in the US. Otherwise they will require your national passport.

 

[Uniller]

Thanks Raev, however the topic of this post was "Greencard Category" that endangered the holders, in this case the derivative asylee (DA). I fully understand what you have elaborated. If you have any other thought regarding the Greencard Category on DA, please share with me, I need to visit my mom desperately, but I afraid will be persecuted by the official from COP because they might read my Greencard category as AS 7. I don't give a damn for somebody saying that I'll be deported in the port of entry in the US.

That statement does not seem to be genuine.

Chinese immigration officer at POE will NOT look at your green card as long as you have a valid Chinese passport. They, however, will look at your green card when you are trying to exit China. Therefore you will have no problem entering China to see your mother. However, you might have problem leaving and entering U.S.

Chinese government will NOT issue visas to Reentry Permit if you are Chinese national. It is clearly stated in their policy statement that if you are Chinese national you can NOT use RP or RTD because neither of them are travel documents with indication of nationality.

 

[wii]

The Chinese consulate will not issue a visa on an American re-entry permit of a Chinese citizen. They require you to get a Chinese passport.

 

[kiev]

The best thing to do is do not go until you acquire citizenship.

 

[Samson777]

I never say entering COP will be a problem, but leaving it. Because when you are leaving, you have to show either a valid US visa or GC to the custom official; At that moment custom official will look at your GC category. That scare me.