Going back to India

Why in the world would someone want to go through the entire immigration process in this country to even think of going back to their home country after getting the green card? I'm still trying to understand this Indian obssession thing about a damn green card, when all they do is criticize every aspect of the american life and dream about going back to India holding a green in their hands and 1, 2 or 3 US Citizen born children like if it was a trophy. People like that should never be granted permanent residence in this country to begin with. Especially if there is no commitment to adapt to a new life, culture and to improve their usually ununderstandable English.
 
jetector said:
Why in the world would someone want to go through the entire immigration process in this country to even think of going back to their home country after getting the green card? I'm still trying to understand this Indian obssession thing about a damn green card, when all they do is criticize every aspect of the american life and dream about going back to India holding a green in their hands and 1, 2 or 3 US Citizen born children like if it was a trophy. People like that should never be granted permanent residence in this country to begin with. Especially if there is no commitment to adapt to a new life, culture and to improve their usually ununderstandable English.
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Those usually start at younger age, as most of us, where they were more productive, find many chances for work and relatively good quality of life but they can not promote themselves and take further forward steps in their carrier and stuck waiting for H visa, labor, GC, PD .....etc. At that time, employers need more young, cheaper labor, active generations to do the same work and the chances become less to nil to older folks. At that time, instead of appreciating that they exposed to advanced knowledge, made some money, acquired more language skills, lived better life style ….etc, they are obligated to leave and start to blame the system, immigration ........etc.
 
Jackolantern said:
Why are you responding to this thread from 2002?
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I don't know, it came in a search on another topic, and I had a strong opinion based on the personal experience of myself and my family and I just wanted to put out there what I learned.

I really have some resentment, frankly, for people who have this "dream world" vision of their home land and they don't even think about the consequences for their children or even themselves in so many arenas before making a decision. Especially these days with the immigration laws being so difficult and it's getting harder by the day, you can't just leave and think you have the option of coming back if you don't like living in your old country. There could very well be a new law tomorrow that states that an alien once having abandoned US residency will be barred from applying again.

The US has enough people trying to get in and they might one day decide that anyone who has lived here and left should take from the quota of people who WANT to be here. People who fight tooth and nail to be here.

I have very little sympathy (I'm sorry to say so) for people who can't even be here long enough to at least get a citizenship. At least for the sake of their future children who may want to pursue opportunities here that may be very difficult for them at the time when their age is appropriate to come here to study or work.

I'm not saying live here for the rest of your life, but at least think about the opportunity you have to offer your children options. That's really all I'm saying.

This discussion is even more germane today than it was then, with the changes in India and with increasingly difficulty in getting a GC application processed. I looked at the priority dates now, and it is scary. It was less than half the time when I got my GC. Imagine telling your child that they have to wait 8 years to pursue a university education in the as GC holder. There is no financial aid or loans available if you are not a GC holder. So it really limits the fields of studies a person can choose. They can only choose a field where there are paying graduate TA positions.

In addition, I know from experience the shock my family got when going back to India. It isn't the nice little quiet lazy place it used to be. It is in many respects a WORSE place to raise children and I want the reasons to be known. The peer pressure effect there is terrible. The society is set up that way and it is completely contrary to American ideas of individual choice and liberty.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE India, I love every minute I spend there. I even loved the time I lived there and the people I met. But one has to be realistic about the reality there. I think India is great for kids right up to 10th standard and after that they need to be exposed to the American system of education and thinking. Assuming they want to come to the US to settle. If not they can stay in India for the rest of their lives. But at least a child should be given that opportunity if at all possible. A GC holder can make it possible for their kids.

Basically I saw a need to dispel myths about India. Because I know such myths are rampant in the Indian community.
 
mmed said:
Those usually start at younger age, as most of us, where they were more productive, find many chances for work and relatively good quality of life but they can not promote themselves and take further forward steps in their carrier and stuck waiting for H visa, labor, GC, PD .....etc. At that time, employers need more young, cheaper labor, active generations to do the same work and the chances become less to nil to older folks. At that time, instead of appreciating that they exposed to advanced knowledge, made some money, acquired more language skills, lived better life style ….etc, they are obligated to leave and start to blame the system, immigration ........etc.
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But once you have a GC why would you go back and put your children back into that disadvantage of fighting for every little opportunity? Some people do that. They want to have the child in India, then they don't get citizenship because they feel India is their motherland. So a GC holding parent once abandoning US residency dooms their child to the same mess only 20 years from now under conditions that will be 10 times as hard.

Some people, I must be honest don't really deserve a GC. They don't understand the true potential and true value of it, not just for them but for their future generations. They very selfishly think of themselves and their friends and family in India and what fun they had as children there. But whatever it is living as an adult here or there is no fun. You cannot use carefree childhood memories to keep longing for life that NO LONGER EXISTS. That lifestyle of dreams was as a child in an India of 10-20 years ago. Even 2 years in a developing country is major change. I get shocked every time I go there. The place become unrecognizable.

Many people through lack of experience fail to understand these things. Then there is expectation of a US standard of living once you've experienced it. Without a solid income opportunity in India (super rich parents, family business) you will not get that. Even if the parents can adjust, what about the kids?
 
Mr Vertigo said:
Interesting post, thanks. What do you mean by peer pressure in India?
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In India the group mentality is so perverse. Social standing is a very important thing, you see how people are committing suicide in false 498a cases even when they did nothing wrong but the very fact that they are being charged causes such a loss of face that they can't bear it.

My friend who was "looking" at some girls to get married to told me that he picked the very first one because of his experience with his sister and people came to "look" and her and turned her down for marriage. With each refusal the entire community knows it make the woman less eligible because they all think something is wrong with her for no fault of her own.

These are just 2 examples of important it is to be a part of a group and to think as a group in India. Nobody will risk social ostracization by expressing an opinion different from the group.

In school, I remember that in order to be part of the cool group you basically need to drink and smoke and do other things. Yes it happens here, but here there are several cliques in a typical high school and they all their philosophies whether they are goth or jock or emo or punk or hipster or whatever. Yes those groups are mostly superficial but teenagers are like that.

In India it is: high status or low status. Period. That is how every class is broken down.

When even one dominant member of big group says "hey let's do this to let's do that" it's VERY discouraged to dissent. I would do it, because I believe in doing what I want. I know some friends who would constantly complain to me about having to go here or travel half-way across town just to not "rock the boat". Even I have done things because I didn't have the energy to fight it.

Interestingly not only one person is the dominant person. It can change on any occasion. It just happens to be the one who says let's do something first and then everyone ends up doing it. The groups in India are large and the next thing you know you have 3-4 cars + 6-7 motorcycles all headed for the same bar. Mind you we were only 16.

I actually decided not to drink for 2 years and not to smoke for 3 years of this going on, but finally I started doing both. That's my fault and I suppose there are people who can fight it better than me.

But in general society there has a much much stronger "herd mentality" I believe dissent and independent thinking are frowned upon in general. Of course there are pockets where this applies less maybe at the university law level or top science programs, but for the most part the "top" schools (elementary, middle and high) there are the same.
 
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mmed said:
Those usually start at younger age, as most of us, where they were more productive, find many chances for work and relatively good quality of life but they can not promote themselves and take further forward steps in their carrier and stuck waiting for H visa, labor, GC, PD .....etc.
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mmed: you are on to something. With higher education, one can go farther in a developing country than a developed one. Many with higher education (PhD) got stuck at the glass ceiling in the USA, even for native born Americans. The competition here in the US is fierce.

With a PhD in the USA, you are overqualified for most positions. Even if you are working in a company or lab, chances of promotion/raises are often limited and slow.

If you go back to India, with a PhD in hand, one can open some many doors. I have a friend from India who just returned after almost a decade of being an eternal postdoc with little pay.
 
I think that has a lot more to do with how a PhD is valued. I've found that a degree has a much higher stand-alone value outside the US than within.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
I think that has a lot more to do with how a PhD is valued. I've found that a degree has a much higher stand-alone value outside the US than within.
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Supply and demand. So many people in the US have a PhD that it has been devalued as a result. Go abroad where PhDs are not so common, and the opportunities are often more numerous and lucrative.
 
darthvader said:
mmed: you are on to something. With higher education, one can go farther in a developing country than a developed one. Many with higher education (PhD) got stuck at the glass ceiling in the USA, even for native born Americans. The competition here in the US is fierce.

With a PhD in the USA, you are overqualified for most positions. Even if you are working in a company or lab, chances of promotion/raises are often limited and slow.

If you go back to India, with a PhD in hand, one can open some many doors. I have a friend from India who just returned after almost a decade of being an eternal postdoc with little pay.
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That is completey right. The problem is that most of us stuck in their thinking and do not want to take any better chances outside the US due to family, kids, keep GC, .....................etc. I know many PhD holders working as cap drivers, technician .......etc may be with incomes barely can make them live below the line of poverty and insist to continue that.
 
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