Employment change after Green Card

[gceb2india]

I got my green card last year 2008. I am have been on /off with my payroll’s. I am still with my Green card sponsored company.

I am getting employment opportunity from other companies. I want to change to new employer. But at the same time I don’t want to jeopardize my N-400(Citizenship).

I know that I have to be with the GC Sponsored Company for 6 months – 1year minimum. My question is

How does USCIS consider 6mon - 1yr? Is it Pay roll wise (or) the length of contract with the employer…?

Can any body thow some light on it….

 

[mmed]

I got my green card last year 2008. I am have been on /off with my payroll’s. I am still with my Green card sponsored company.

I am getting employment opportunity from other companies. I want to change to new employer. But at the same time I don’t want to jeopardize my N-400(Citizenship).

I know that I have to be with the GC Sponsored Company for 6 months – 1year minimum. My question is

How does USCIS consider 6mon - 1yr? Is it Pay roll wise (or) the length of contract with the employer…?

Can any body thow some light on it….

Move any time after GC or even before approval of GC, no effects on citizenship

 

[Jackolantern]

Move any time after GC or even before approval of GC, no effects on citizenship

That is a blanket statement which is not true in all cases. However, in this case the poster should be OK to change jobs now, although the safety or danger of changing jobs is still uncertain until there is a court case that draws the line somewhere.

 

[gceb2india]

i got my GC in August-08. and i didnt had payroll from Oct-Dec-08 will it be a problem if i leave this month..

 

[Jackolantern]

i got my GC in August-08. and i didnt had payroll from Oct-Dec-08 will it be a problem if i leave this month..

You had 2 months last year and 4 months this year being paid by them. You should be OK, unless the unlikely event occurs where a court case for a similar or greater time frame rules otherwise.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I don't see how changing jobs before (assuming AC21 compliant) or after receiving GC could possibly affect your future N-400.

The law is clear and I see no gray areas here:

1. I-485 pending more than 180? AC21 says you CAN change jobs. No requirement to notify DHS. Should be ready to show evidence that new job is same/similar.

2. In posession of GC and acquired lawful way? Can work for any employer, anywhere as long as pleased.


BTW: Court ruled that DHS cannot deny GC to spouses of a USC even if the USC dies during the GC process.

 

[nelsona]

Mary, take a spoonful of sugar and realize that AC21 only applies BEFORE I-485 is approved, so, the question at hand, already discussed at length on this board, is not covered by AC21.

Chim chim chiree!

 

[Mary Poppins]

I understand. That’s why no. 2 says “In possession of GC and acquired lawful way?”.

My point is that if DHS was so concerned about leaving employers “too soon” they would simply issue conditional GCs and remove the condition after 1-6-12-24 months whatever they think is reasonable. Since there is no law saying you cannot change employers after receiving GC I don’t see how possibly can anybody be penalized for that.

While leaving the sponsoring employer after 1 day might trigger an investigation later (I doubt though) if the original application was legitimate once it is proven to be valid I don’t see how they could possibly deny further immigration benefits.

BTW: If they want to screw you they can and will:

Lady living here since she is 5. Family moved here on GC from Europe. She grew up here, got medical degree, got married, had children, making 300-400K a year.

Went to naturalization interview, IO harassed her multiple time if she was ever involved in prostitution on a very harsh and rude way. She started to cry on the interview. Of course she got approved.
There is no clear recipe for not being harassed. It depends in the IO you get.

 

[gceb2india]

I am have been on /off with my pay roll’s. I am still with my Green card sponsored company.
It’s almost 9 months since i got my GC. At the time of citizenship
How does USCIS verify the length of stay with the petition employer? Are they going to see the pay stubs or Length of the stay or a letter from employer….
plz he me

 

[Jackolantern]

I don't see how changing jobs before (assuming AC21 compliant) or after receiving GC could possibly affect your future N-400.

What YOU see doesn't really matter. What USCIS and the courts see is what matters. And so far there hasn't been a publicized test case for this, so we don't really know anything yet.

The law is clear and I see no gray areas here:

1. I-485 pending more than 180? AC21 says you CAN change jobs. No requirement to notify DHS. Should be ready to show evidence that new job is same/similar.

2. In posession of GC and acquired lawful way? Can work for any employer, anywhere as long as pleased.

Sure, but depending on who you work for (and when) or don't work for after GC approval, that may affect whether your GC is lawful. You are expected to have a bona fide intention to work in a bona fide job, and your actions after GC approval can call that intention and the validity of your GC into question. Until a court rules on the issue or an explicit regulation is written, it will remain a gray area.

 

[bobiber]

My point is that if DHS was so concerned about leaving employers “too soon” they would simply issue conditional GCs and remove the condition after 1-6-12-24 months whatever they think is reasonable. Since there is no law saying you cannot change employers after receiving GC I don’t see how possibly can anybody be penalized for that.

Mary Poppins, thank you for being a voice of reason! There was never a case of revoked GC for leaving employer too soon. Also after relaxation of I-485 and introduction of AC21 rule that you can leave your employer after 180 days (or start your own business, if you have EAD!), it would absolutely not make sense to penalize people for leaving employers after GC. It would just not make sense to be allowed to leave employer before GC, but not allowed to do it after GC.

 

[Jackolantern]

Mary Poppins, thank you for being a voice of reason! There was never a case of revoked GC for leaving employer too soon. Also after relaxation of I-485 and introduction of AC21 rule that you can leave your employer after 180 days (or start your own business, if you have EAD!), it would absolutely not make sense to penalize people for leaving employers after GC.

However, there have been cases of the GC being denied for leaving the employer too soon, because the next job did not meet the "same or similar" criteria. If they can deny the GC for that reason, I would expect them to be able to revoke the GC for the same reason if discovered after GC approval. So we should not believe that AC21 means we can work for "whoever we want, wherever we want" immediately after GC approval.

It would just not make sense to be allowed to leave employer before GC, but not allowed to do it after GC.

True, but there are many aspects of immigration law that don't make sense.

 

[mmed]

However, there have been cases of the GC being denied for leaving the employer too soon, because the next job did not meet the "same or similar" criteria. If they can deny the GC for that reason, I would expect them to be able to revoke the GC for the same reason if discovered after GC approval. So we should not believe that AC21 means we can work for "whoever we want, wherever we want" immediately after GC approval.

Sometimes there is an agreement that the employee will work for certain time or have penalty if break the contract as well as many other points. This agreement has nothing to do with GC or even if you are USC. Some people think by obtaining GC all those dropped out and can do or move to any employer immediately or even within 6 months or so.
Here we should not mix things and we should go back to the work contract requirements, if you have to stay for certain time just stay and has nothing to do with GC. If not, you can move in the same day you got the GC. The employer can go to the court and complain because you violate the agreement not just because you moved after the GC. The court by then can decide to the extent of revoking the GC according to the breach of contract agreements the person did.
Knowing the fact that a court revoked GC because the holder moved after obtaining GC does not mean much for others because, I think the cases are much complicated and some sort of fraud in the GC application itself may play a role in addition to violating work agreement. I have a program in my work for example which requires a trainee to work for at least 2 years after finishing that training. I assume if the person did not follow the requirement there will be a problem to the extent of revocation of GC if GC is a factor here depending on how the employer make the case to the court.
The other point is to look to your employer, if you are working with big firm or big institute, you can move in the same day, no one care. But, if you work with those places with three employee only or not existing ones with many under the table transaction, you have to expect some sort of hassle if you moved early after GC.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

The court by then can decide to the extent of revoking the GC according to the breach of contract agreements the person did.

An immigration judge cannot rescind a GC merely because of a violation of an employment.

I have a program in my work for example which requires a trainee to work for at least 2 years after finishing that training. I assume if the person did not follow the requirement there will be a problem to the extent of revocation of GC if GC is a factor here depending on how the employer make the case to the court.

Nope. There might be liquidated damages to pay for the training, but generally these sorts of restrictive clauses are rarely to compensate the employer.

But, if you work with those places with three employee only or not existing ones with many under the table transaction, you have to expect some sort of hassle if you moved early after GC.

That's because these sorts of places are usually scam artists.

 

[bubba771]

Guys,

Sorry to beat this to death further. Many years ago when I got my green card I was layed off a 2 weeks later. Now I'm going to apply for my citizenship -- I don't have any old pay stubs or stuff like that -- it was in 2001.

Do I have something to worry about?

 

[Passer-by]

If you have been laid off I beleive there is nothing for you to be worried about.
It's not your fault, you are obviously (aren't you? willing to work for him permanently and it's his fault that he cannot afford your service any more.
Just adding my 2 cents:
my situation is different, one of those tiny bodyshops with huge reimbursement fees upon early termination and 3-4 persons as regular employees. I got my GC, but now bodyshop owner just blatantly refuses to pay prevailing wage he promised to pay in I140. On my request he replied with formal excuse about 'current economic conditions of a business not allowing to give you a raise'.
And again I am not sure what to do - either quit on this excuse ASAP, or just wait for that damned '6 month safety net' and put up with being ripped off?

 

[bubba771]

more on changing jobs.

@Passer-by I'm so sorry to hear that
-- I wonder if there are whistle-blower clauses that protect you
-- Or the threat of using one will allow your employer to terminate you.

My issue is that I do not have any letter of termination or anything like that.
-- Nor was I given one -- my HR person said that they were going to terminate
-- the relationship and if they had more work they would call me.

The question I keep seeing but have not seen an answer to is:
-- Are there documented cases (a forum posting will suffice)
-- Where people have been denied naturalization or stripped of their Green Card
as a result.
-- Thus far I've heard of an **recent** article by a Korean Lawyer
talking about people running into trouble -- however nothing more
-- To me that sounds strange given that I think this happens a lot (people
switching jobs)
-- if this lack of documentation is real then I think that is good news
as it demonstrates that this is unlikely to be an issue unless of course
USCIS has recently had a change of heart.

Thanks.

 

[f12h12gc]

It's better to stay with GC sponsoring employer for atleast 6 months to show good faith intent.

 

[Jackolantern]

-- Are there documented cases (a forum posting will suffice)
-- Where people have been denied naturalization or stripped of their Green Card
as a result.

No known cases of actual denial (yet), but there have been a couple where they got harassed about it.

-- if this lack of documentation is real then I think that is good news
as it demonstrates that this is unlikely to be an issue unless of course
USCIS has recently had a change of heart.

That's the key to it ... will they have a change of heart. All it takes is for one denial for this reason to occur, and be appealed in court. From that point forward, USCIS probably will start being more consistent across the board based on the court ruling. If the court upholds the denial, they likely will start denying anybody who left the employer within an equal or shorter time frame as the court case, unless there are other differentiating factors.

But as of now there is no such (known) precedent, so those applying now shouldn't have to worry. It's those who will be applying for citizenship in the more distant future who may have something to worry about, because the critical court case could happen sometime in the years between now and when the application is submitted. Still, when that time comes it would be possible to read about the details of the court case and avoid applying if your own situation appears similar to or worse than the court case.

 

[vishis]

Ok...I want to put this to rest. My friend left his sponsoring employer within 1 week of GC. Yesterday he got his Citizenship. No questions asked about employment. The only question was about trafic tickets. So.....people do not waste your time and be a slave to your sponsoring employer! Be bold and go for it!!!