Bula Thams3516, I'm just ready for interview & waiting for 2nl and becoming current. I'd say there is a huge backlog in cases at KCC, I would just email KCC and ask if they are happy with your Docs, hopefully they may have gotten to your case when they read your email request?It took about 10 days for them to reply. Good luck, hope you hear soon, it's a big relief when you hear back!
DV 2021 Oceania Selectees
- Thread starter ausdoughnuts
- Start date
Britsimon
Super Moderator
Well life is too short to properly reply to this response.
Yes the education standard is defined as being equivalent to that required for US college entry. However each country has established that standard based on their own schooling system, so as others have noted you are probably overthinking this whole thing.
Just note, when I say argue something - I mean to make your case, not literally argue.
Skidmarksteve
Member
Aus-Usa
Aren't you the member who stated yesterday in this thread your evidence of completion of high school is an original document from 1989 with no grades recorded on it and you can't locate the document that does have your grades on it?
Proceeding on the basis your a DV 2021 selectee yet to be interviewed, what is your plan if you get interviewed at the "laid back" Sydney consulate and the CO decides to apply the FAM and the opinion of the BritSimon you tube video I just watched on education requirements for a DV and demands evidence you SUCCESSFULLY completed high school?
Call mE hyper vigilant, but if you don't have the evidence of grades at your interview, at best (for you) your case will be placed on AP until you do provide the evidence of grades.
What happens then if you try to obtain your grades from 1989 from the NSW authorities and they can't immediately find them?
My Qld grades from 1988 took over 2 months to locate as they were not stored in electronic format and where in an archives box somewhere at a government storage facility.
Maybe your old high school no longer exists, maybe NSW will go into an emergency 6 month COVID-19 lockdown (like VIC did last year) and the NSW school records department is not considered an essential service during the lockdown and closes, and all of a sudden you can't produce your grades and your DV case expires with the end of the US FISCAL year on 30 September 2021.
Pardon me all for being extra vigilant, extra thinking and extra prepared, but I'd rather be extra on all 3 than under.
Maybe Sydney consulate is laid back and I have nothing to worry about and in the future I will look back and say what the hell was I worried about, but given that you get one shot at a DV at interview, as there is no waivers or appeals for DV case refusals, I really would like to get as much accurate info as possible PRIOR to attending the interview, and, as per my original post, that info can really only come from people who have been interviewed at Sydney for the DV.
We are all on the same team here, no harm in helping each other out, and if you are a DV 2021 selectee Aus-Usa, read between the lines, I am helping you, not criticising you.
Skidmarksteve
Member
I guess Simon having worked in a government security department for several years has taught me to overthink, basically expect the unexpected. I've personally seen many times people under think, and it usually ends bad for them.
Of note, thanks to the very helpful link Susie provided to Arizona University entry requirements for international students, which includes requirements for every Australian state and territory high school results (all the same) any Australian educated student wanting to apply for college admission to Arizona University must have as a minimum B grade results for ALL subjects studied at the Australian high school.
Yet in Australia, dependant on what university degree you want to obtain, its minimum C grade results.
So if your saying the FAM says an Australian education must make the DV applicant eligible to apply for admission to a UNITED STATES College, any Australian DV selectee relying upon their education to qualify for a DV must have a year 12 high school certificate with B grades or higher for ALL subjects studied, IF the requirements at Arizona University are the same at all other US Colleges.
The alternative is to qualify for a DV an Australian education must make the applicant eligible to apply for admission to "a" college/university, including an Australian university.
Hi Green&Gold
This is very useful, thank you for sharing
Just wondering where on the Sydney consulate website you located it? I've been through that site so many times but obviously missed this!Really grateful for all the info being shared on this forum (wish i knew about it earlier!)
I am patiently waiting for a 2NL with case no 13XX... I submitted my application and further documents last year, and after reading about all the KCC delays im really glad i did!
Very interested to hear from people that have their Syd interviews scheduled, to get an idea how many Syd are scheduling each month. I can see from the data on dvcharts.xarthisius.xyz/ceacFY21.html# that SYD isn't recorded against any of the cases that have had 2NLs sent out..
Thanks all
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
You are being way too literal dude. I said look at an arbitrary college to see what certification is accepted. if you chose Harvard they’d probably say you need all As, would you then say that is the minimum? Find a college that cares more about fee income than academic standards and they’ll drop the grades. The point was to look at the type of certificate they ask for.
You have expended so much energy and very, very many words here on what is really a very simple definition: at least 12 years of formal schooling that gets you university entrance. End of story. I think your actual issue from something you said earlier is that you appear to only have ten years of formal schooling, not too dissimilar from what used to be common in the UK with people leaving after o-levels (rather than going on to a-levels and thus not qualifying for university entrance so not acceptable for DV). And no I am not engaging in a huge debate with you about your actual qualifications. You need to figure out if those two years “pre professional” after that count or not. And if not, well you clearly graduated high school many years ago, a number of Australians have been successful using work experience, so do the work on putting that together. Helpful stuff both on britsimon site and past threads here for that.
melbourne2021
New Member
Hey - just thought i'd share - I got the email from the consulate the other day. Didn't have any attachments (like the cover letter someone posted here, so glad I saw that here or id've missed it haha) but was really just a short 'reply to confirm' type email with a bit of information about COVID-safety and security procedures. And a reminder to bring original civil docs + photocopies + large post satchel (that's all it says doesn't break-down which docs like in the cover-letter). On another note I had my medical the other day and I think I was too relaxed about the immunisation history stuff (just thinking they'd shoot me up with everything on the day) but instead the doctor has now sent me on a bit of a goose-chase to get more info that's pretty slow-going to get at the moment, so I doubt it will be completed by the time of the interview. Not a big deal though and probably serves me right haha.
Skidmarksteve
Member
Thanks for that, that’s what I was always after, good luck with your interview
Green&Gold
Active Member
Hi AusJess27: I am trying to find the exact link on the consulate website, but if you google "DV1-Document-Cover-Sheet.pdf", the first result will be an au.usembassy.gov website. You might be able to search that file name on the website, there was a section to do with interview preparedness from memory.Hi Green&Gold
This is very useful, thank you for sharing
Really grateful for all the info being shared on this forum (wish i knew about it earlier!)
I am patiently waiting for a 2NL with case no 13XX... I submitted my application and further documents last year, and after reading about all the KCC delays im really glad i did!
Very interested to hear from people that have their Syd interviews scheduled, to get an idea how many Syd are scheduling each month. I can see from the data on dvcharts.xarthisius.xyz/ceacFY21.html# that SYD isn't recorded against any of the cases that have had 2NLs sent out..
Thanks all
Glad to hear things are progressing, were there any shots they were most concerned about? Any shots not mentioned on the CDC guidelines?
For anyone who wants the PDF copy of the Cover letter I attached as a screenshot.
Google "DV1-Document-Cover-Sheet.pdf", the first result will be an au.usembassy.gov website.
Last edited:
Aidyn
Well-Known Member
FYI - I was interviewed in Sydney for DV - thats why I feel I am absolutely qualified to tell you to stop overthinking things !!!!
Skidmarksteve
Member
Aidyn
I make no apologies for over thinking for reasons I've already given.
Contrary to what others have said in this thread, my education is up to and completed year 11 high school, followed by 1 year full time TAFE (which you could do back in the 80's) and the sole authority in my state (Qld) for university admission applications (QTAC) have assessed my 12 years of formal education and have provided me a QTAC rank number based on that education that allows me to apply for admission to Australian universities.
That was the original concern, is my 12 years of formal education equivalent to a US high school degree pursuant to the FAM? as it allows me to apply for Australian university admission.
However a second issue has now arisen due to Susie and Simon's interpretation of the FAM, does the term "College admission" referred to in the FAM mean a US college? or an Australian college/university for an Australian DV selectee being interviewed at the Sydney consulate?
If it applies to an Australian university, my QTAC rank # should be sufficient evidence for a DV application as it was based on 12 years of formal education and allows me to apply for Australian university admission.
The FAM (that I have seen) does not say a United States College anywhere, despite others saying it "clearly"
(their words) does. If in doubt google FAM DV, it will be the first result, and read it for yourself.
You say you were interviewed at the Sydney consulate and just supplied evidence of completion of year 12 high school (presumably in Australia)? If the "laid back" (your words) Sydney consulate never asked you to prove your education allowed you to apply for UNITED STATES college admission, that suggests to me the FAM means Australian university admission for an Australian DV selectee being interviewed at the Sydney consulate.
I have the work experience argument already prepared, but work experience is even more subjective than education, you need an SVP of at least 7 to qualify for a DV.
My job title comes in at 6.0 - <7.0 SVP, but my job duties match duties in other job titles with 7.0>SVP.
FAM appears to be more interested in job duties rather than job title, and my job title required 4 years of formal training. I have the training certificates issued by my state and my employment contract listing my duties which match duties of other job titles with 7.0> SVP, and a signed statement on my employer's letterhead confirming my duties with them since 2016. Obtaining a statement like that wasn't easy, as my employer suspected I was preparing to leave them for a rival company. Sometimes if a company suspects your leaving they will terminate your employment to avoid paying benefits you would otherwise be entitled to if you resigned.
All I wanted, as per my original post, is a heads up on anything Sydney consulate is asking for, particularly on education, prior to interview.
There is no need to debate this further, my interpretation of the FAM appears to be different to the interpretation of others, the best course of action now is to have the Sydney consulate confirm in writing what they accept for educational requirements for a DV application and if it is a US college admission the FAM refers to as being equivalent to a US high school education.
I will upload their written response here so we will all know what the requirements are at the Sydney consulate.
Thank you for your input.
Skidmarksteve
Member
Thanks for that, who else’s has spotted the typo on this document?
Green&Gold
Active Member
What Typo?
Aidyn
Well-Known Member
hmm ok Steve, so I may have missed an earlier post from you but from what you have just written in regards to only completing year 11, followed by a year at TAFE - this is a concern.
I can give you information on how my interview went and you can make your own informed decision with that - Like you I also only completed year 11, I however did not complete a year of TAFE after that. Later in life I completed a Bachelors Degree and (not that it's relevant to my DV interview but I was partway through my Masters Degree when I interviewed).
Like you, I was unsure if my education would be enough so I also prepared a case for work experience, I have a job that has an SVP Range 7.0 to < 8.0 - happy to provide further details on what I put together for this.
On my interview day I had all my requested documents as well as my University Transcript for my Bachelors Degree and all the documents I had collected to support my work experience case. The CO reviewed all my documents, looked at my degree documents and all my work experience stuff - he put my degree aside and went through everything else, grilled me about my job, my experience, skills, how long I worked at various places throughout my career. He then approved my case.
So my degree meant nothing to him, as far as he was concerned I did not have a year 12 leaving certificate from an Australian High School.
FWIW, I also completed high school in QLD in the 80s so I am more than familiar with how it all works
I would be more than willing to help you with reviewing your work experience stuff to see if you can qualify on that, you say your skills match a higher SVP Range, If I were you, I'd be putting my effort into strengthening that case and not nit picking the minutiae of the FAM rulings
I can give you information on how my interview went and you can make your own informed decision with that - Like you I also only completed year 11, I however did not complete a year of TAFE after that. Later in life I completed a Bachelors Degree and (not that it's relevant to my DV interview but I was partway through my Masters Degree when I interviewed).
Like you, I was unsure if my education would be enough so I also prepared a case for work experience, I have a job that has an SVP Range 7.0 to < 8.0 - happy to provide further details on what I put together for this.
On my interview day I had all my requested documents as well as my University Transcript for my Bachelors Degree and all the documents I had collected to support my work experience case. The CO reviewed all my documents, looked at my degree documents and all my work experience stuff - he put my degree aside and went through everything else, grilled me about my job, my experience, skills, how long I worked at various places throughout my career. He then approved my case.
So my degree meant nothing to him, as far as he was concerned I did not have a year 12 leaving certificate from an Australian High School.
FWIW, I also completed high school in QLD in the 80s so I am more than familiar with how it all works
I would be more than willing to help you with reviewing your work experience stuff to see if you can qualify on that, you say your skills match a higher SVP Range, If I were you, I'd be putting my effort into strengthening that case and not nit picking the minutiae of the FAM rulings
Hi Green&Gold
This is very useful, thank you for sharing
Really grateful for all the info being shared on this forum (wish i knew about it earlier!)
I am patiently waiting for a 2NL with case no 13XX... I submitted my application and further documents last year, and after reading about all the KCC delays im really glad i did!
Very interested to hear from people that have their Syd interviews scheduled, to get an idea how many Syd are scheduling each month. I can see from the data on dvcharts.xarthisius.xyz/ceacFY21.html# that SYD isn't recorded against any of the cases that have had 2NLs sent out..
Thanks
Hey AusJess27, Is this what you are looking for. I searched on twitter Sydney interview 2nl were 15 so far?Hi Green&Gold
This is very useful, thank you for sharing
Really grateful for all the info being shared on this forum (wish i knew about it earlier!)
I am patiently waiting for a 2NL with case no 13XX... I submitted my application and further documents last year, and after reading about all the KCC delays im really glad i did!
Very interested to hear from people that have their Syd interviews scheduled, to get an idea how many Syd are scheduling each month. I can see from the data on dvcharts.xarthisius.xyz/ceacFY21.html# that SYD isn't recorded against any of the cases that have had 2NLs sent out..
Thanks all
And website for Sydney interview requirements....travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Supplements/Supplements_by_Post/SYD-Sydney.html
Green&Gold
Active Member
Hi Aidyn, as you mentioned could you please share information about preparing your work experience case?hmm ok Steve, so I may have missed an earlier post from you but from what you have just written in regards to only completing year 11, followed by a year at TAFE - this is a concern.
I can give you information on how my interview went and you can make your own informed decision with that - Like you I also only completed year 11, I however did not complete a year of TAFE after that. Later in life I completed a Bachelors Degree and (not that it's relevant to my DV interview but I was partway through my Masters Degree when I interviewed).
Like you, I was unsure if my education would be enough so I also prepared a case for work experience, I have a job that has an SVP Range 7.0 to < 8.0 - happy to provide further details on what I put together for this.
On my interview day I had all my requested documents as well as my University Transcript for my Bachelors Degree and all the documents I had collected to support my work experience case. The CO reviewed all my documents, looked at my degree documents and all my work experience stuff - he put my degree aside and went through everything else, grilled me about my job, my experience, skills, how long I worked at various places throughout my career. He then approved my case.
So my degree meant nothing to him, as far as he was concerned I did not have a year 12 leaving certificate from an Australian High School.
FWIW, I also completed high school in QLD in the 80s so I am more than familiar with how it all works
I would be more than willing to help you with reviewing your work experience stuff to see if you can qualify on that, you say your skills match a higher SVP Range, If I were you, I'd be putting my effort into strengthening that case and not nit picking the minutiae of the FAM rulings
Did you get HR to write up something? Job description? Etc
Hi Aidyn, I am also after information about setting out work experience case too. Would You recommend a professional help? I have no degree, just NSW Take trade courses and Private assessment & just worked my way up over the last 20 years and now am classified as a qualified licensed Building Manager running our Construction Business (SVP 7.0-8.0)hmm ok Steve, so I may have missed an earlier post from you but from what you have just written in regards to only completing year 11, followed by a year at TAFE - this is a concern.
I can give you information on how my interview went and you can make your own informed decision with that - Like you I also only completed year 11, I however did not complete a year of TAFE after that. Later in life I completed a Bachelors Degree and (not that it's relevant to my DV interview but I was partway through my Masters Degree when I interviewed).
Like you, I was unsure if my education would be enough so I also prepared a case for work experience, I have a job that has an SVP Range 7.0 to < 8.0 - happy to provide further details on what I put together for this.
On my interview day I had all my requested documents as well as my University Transcript for my Bachelors Degree and all the documents I had collected to support my work experience case. The CO reviewed all my documents, looked at my degree documents and all my work experience stuff - he put my degree aside and went through everything else, grilled me about my job, my experience, skills, how long I worked at various places throughout my career. He then approved my case.
So my degree meant nothing to him, as far as he was concerned I did not have a year 12 leaving certificate from an Australian High School.
FWIW, I also completed high school in QLD in the 80s so I am more than familiar with how it all works
I would be more than willing to help you with reviewing your work experience stuff to see if you can qualify on that, you say your skills match a higher SVP Range, If I were you, I'd be putting my effort into strengthening that case and not nit picking the minutiae of the FAM rulings
Thanks
S
Skidmarksteve
Member
Aidynhmm ok Steve, so I may have missed an earlier post from you but from what you have just written in regards to only completing year 11, followed by a year at TAFE - this is a concern.
I can give you information on how my interview went and you can make your own informed decision with that - Like you I also only completed year 11, I however did not complete a year of TAFE after that. Later in life I completed a Bachelors Degree and (not that it's relevant to my DV interview but I was partway through my Masters Degree when I interviewed).
Like you, I was unsure if my education would be enough so I also prepared a case for work experience, I have a job that has an SVP Range 7.0 to < 8.0 - happy to provide further details on what I put together for this.
On my interview day I had all my requested documents as well as my University Transcript for my Bachelors Degree and all the documents I had collected to support my work experience case. The CO reviewed all my documents, looked at my degree documents and all my work experience stuff - he put my degree aside and went through everything else, grilled me about my job, my experience, skills, how long I worked at various places throughout my career. He then approved my case.
So my degree meant nothing to him, as far as he was concerned I did not have a year 12 leaving certificate from an Australian High School.
FWIW, I also completed high school in QLD in the 80s so I am more than familiar with how it all works
I would be more than willing to help you with reviewing your work experience stuff to see if you can qualify on that, you say your skills match a higher SVP Range, If I were you, I'd be putting my effort into strengthening that case and not nit picking the minutiae of the FAM rulings
Thank you for your reply.
That you were eligible to APPLY for university admission despite only completing year 11 high school may prove my interpretation of the the FAM.
As you are familiar with the Qld high school system, particularly in the 1980’s, you know it was the Senior Certificate that was issued up until 2007 and now replaced by the Qld Certificate of Education (QCE) to those who completed year 12 in Qld, and if you wanted to APPLY to enter university you needed a Tertiary Entrance score (TE score) on your Senior Certificate (up to 1989) replaced by an Overall Position number (OP number) on your Senior Certificate or QCE up to 2019 and replaced now with an Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (ATAR) number Australia wide on ALL year 12 certificates issued anywhere in Australia.
You obviously don’t have a TE, OP or ATAR as you only completed year 11, yet you APPLIED to enter and was accepted at (presumably an Australian) University, and successfully completed a Masters Degree.
The FAM does NOT say the foreign education is equivalent to a US high school education only if you successfully complete 12 years of a foreign education because a US high school education is 12 years.
What the FAM says is as the 12 year US high school education is sufficient to allow the student to APPLY for college admission, for the foreign education to be equivalent to the US high school education the foreign education “should” (not must) also allow the student to APPLY for college admission.
The FAM does NOT say the foreign education is equivalent to the US education only if it is for the same length of time (12 years) as the US education, nor does the FAM say you must be accepted for college admission, it only says you must be eligible to APPLY for college admission.
As I said previously, I now need a ruling from the Sydney consulate if the term “college admission” in the FAM, when talking about a foreign equivalent education, means admission to a US college only, or, for an Australian DV selectee being interviewed at the Sydney consulate, an Australian college/university. If the answer from the Sydney consulate is an Australian university, then I believe your education Aidyn qualified you for your DV, even if the CO didn’t know or believed it, as your education allowed you to APPLY for university admission in Australia even though you didn’t complete year 12 high school education in Australia.
One sure way to find out what the CO decided qualified you for your DV is to FOIA the US state department on your DV case, it may have been your education qualified you as well, without the CO actually saying it to you.
If you APPLIED for admission to a QUEENSLAND university for your Masters Degree, and you obviously didn’t have a TE, OP or ATAR, you must have had your pre university education assessed for a QTAC rank number, as, as far as I understand it, there would be no other way for you to apply for admission.
Qld University course admission requirements have the minimum TE, OP or ATAR you must have to be able to apply for admission for that university course. The only other option I’m aware of is if you have a QTAC rank number which are also listed on university course admission application requirements.
That’s why QTAC have been offering QTAC rank numbers for the last 30 years, for people like you and I who don’t have a TE, OP or ATAR because we didn’t complete year 12 high school.
With my work experience case, it’s a case that my job title may be insufficient as there is no listing on O*Net of my job title and the closest job title to my job title is 6.0-<7.0 SVP (personally I think O*Net has set the bar very high for many job titles) but my job duties match job duties in other job titles with 7.0> SVP.
The reason for this is I, like many Australians, negotiated my own salary and workplace agreement with my employer rather than accept the award wage and Union BS associated with awards, and with my salary came more money, but with more hours with extra duties.
My concerns when arguing a work experience case are will the CO rely more on the job title than job duties and if the CO refuses the education argument and places the case on AP and contacts my employer for further information, my employer will realise I am planing to leave the company and terminate my employment to avoid financial obligations that have been negotiated in my contract that can only be negated if I were, for example, fired. It’s a sad reality of life. How many women have made the mistake of privately telling a work collegue they were trying to fall pregnant, only to be suddenly fired for “poor performance” so the employer didn’t have to pay maternity leave?
Not so much a problem if the DV is granted, but if the DV is refused I would end up unemployed as well.
Obviously I will make submissions my education qualifies me for the DVD, and if the Sydney consulate says in writing the college admission requirement in the FAM is for a US college, I will follow Susie’s advice and try to find a US college who will confirm my Australian education allows me to APPLY for admission with them. If your can convince the CO you qualify for the DV on education you shouldn’t even need to mention your employment.
Can you say how long your interview went for and the questions the CO asked, particularly about education and employment ? did you have your year 11 transcripts at your interview? Mine took months for my old Brisbane high school to locate, as they were not electronically stored and were in a 1980’s archive box in Government storage, and even then were only photocopies so the high school had to create an original transcript on their letterhead signed by the principle in ink as a correct record. The QCAA only keeps the now obsolete year 10 Junior Certificate and year 12 Senior Certificate/QCE replacements. Anything else, such as year 11 transcripts must be obtained from the individual high school if you don’t have your originals.
I’m single and have around 70k in my bank account plus around 150k in easily sellable assets (assets I physically cannot take to the US) so I’m aasuming there shouldn’t be a public charge concern with me.
Skidmarksteve
Member
Aus21
Depending how far you went in high school and what TAFE certificates you have, if the Sydney consulate advises on the “college admission” requirement in the FAM when discussing foreign education equivalency is Australian college/university admission for an Australian selectee, you may qualify on your education.
I’m sure NSW has the same tertiary assessment centre arrangements as Qld for assessing your education to see if you have a pathway to apply for university admission , if you do, you may qualify for the DV on education, and I recommend you make a case on your education at the interview. What’s the worse that can happen? the CO says no? Then your argue employment, but if you only argue employment and you fail there, you have nothing else to argue.
Qld (QTAC) charges about $150 for this assessment, so even if NSW does not assess your education, nothing stopping you having QTAC assessing your NSW education for admission to a Qld university, as QTAC even assesses foreign education results.
Prove your education allows you to apply for admission to a Qld university at your interview you may not even need to mention employment.
With your employment, construction manager is definitely 7.0> SVP, and will qualify you for a DV “IF” you have been a construction manager for 2 years in the last 5 years.
You can actually narrow your search down on O*Net to search for job titles only 7.0> SVP, which are job zone 4 jobs, so I’d read all job titles on the job zone 4 search that remotely match your type of work, and if they mention some duties your job title doesn’t include, print those jobs out as well and submit your duties go beyond your job title and include duties from other job titles.
Im assuming if your a DV 2021 selectee you have already submitted your DS 260 (your unlikely to be interviewed at all if you haven’t submitted it yet). Just remember the DS 260 asks for job titles and duties, so if you under talked your job duties in the DS 260, and you try over talking your job duties at your interview that will likely cause a problem. Also remember if you have over talked your job title in the DS 260, the US state department almost certainly has access to Australian governmentrecords, like your tax returns, which include your job title, and if your tax return for the latest Australian fiscal year says your a construction labourer yet your DS 260 says your a construction manager, that will likely cause the same problem at your interview.
If I were you, as a self employed construction manager, I would be obtaining (possibly with your client’s consent) any signed contracts for the last 5 years of construction work for them with your company, particularly if your mentioned as the manager and the work performed is listed.
Do you have any construction/building permit applications with authorities where your company is named and you are named as the manager? If so print those out for the last 5 years and take them to the interview.
Would also supply (which the CO may already have) any ABN records for your company naming you as the sole trader / manager of your company.
A QTAC education assessment takes about 2 - 3 weeks, so iF you wish the pursue that option, and your interview is soon, I’d be making that inquiry a priority.