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DV 2015 KENYA SELECTEES FORUM

Britsimon said:
get a better education for your kids so they can get a better car?

...
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Bit jaundiced? I have to say the prospect of my kids getting a better education, especially at tertiary level, is a huge pull factor for me. Nothing to do with driving fancy cars though. Everything with wanting my kids to be able to reach their best potential.

Outstanding 3rd world countries often mean you can have it easier than the US with bigger houses, fancy cars, at least one full time housekeeper/nanny etc... What's the payoff? Subjective. Some people are happy to live behind electric fences as the price for that. Or in some countries the price will be possible kidnapping of your kids, or terrorists attacking shopping malls, or worrying that one of your kids turns out gay and faces a life of (legal and other) misery or even the death sentence because of it, etc. It all depends on how you subjectively define "better".
 
SusieQQQ said:
Bit jaundiced? I have to say the prospect of my kids getting a better education, especially at tertiary level, is a huge pull factor for me. Nothing to do with driving fancy cars though. Everything with wanting my kids to be able to reach their best potential.

Outstanding 3rd world countries often mean you can have it easier than the US with bigger houses, fancy cars, at least one full time housekeeper/nanny etc... What's the payoff? Subjective. Some people are happy to live behind electric fences as the price for that. Or in some countries the price will be possible kidnapping of your kids, or terrorists attacking shopping malls, or worrying that one of your kids turns out gay and faces a life of (legal and other) misery or even the death sentence because of it, etc. It all depends on how you subjectively define "better".
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Not jaundiced yet, no. :D

Yeah I get that your points but reading the OPs post it sounds like he is happy where he is and doesn't want to take a job unless he reeeeaaally has to. Which he will. A blue collar job too so the end result will be a struggle. Most Americans in that situation would not be able to take international trips (like to Kenya)... Compare that with what he seems to feel is a pretty good life in a wonderful country. Just trying to empathise with the position...
 
usken go said:
Thank you B.simon.
In Kenya, road engineers mainly work in the field and site offices so yes it involves getting ones hands dirty and it is fun.
I plan to start as small as it can get (selfemployment?) as i struggle to find my space but getting a salaried job is rally not my idea of a livelihood, unless i reaaaaly must.
I mentioned that save for a few setbacks, ours is a wonderful 3rd world country. do you mind expounding on better life for the kids? Is it educationwise...........?
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Britsimon said:
Just reading between the lines of this post I'm not sure America is the place for you. If you already live in a beautiful country, and are doing well with work, and you feel opportunity fir you kids is good enough, then why move?
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Just like Simon already noted, why move if you you're feel like you're already living a dream life? I must say I'm truly amazed that a parent with pretty much very young kids will be asking for clarification on what "better life for the kids" in the U.S. compared to life in a 3rd world country means. As a parent ask yourself, what kind of a future do you envisage for your kids? Is that attainable if they were to stay back in your country? If you can honestly answer "Yes" to yourself without hesitation, then maybe you're truly better off staying back in your country. One thing is for sure if you move over to the US, you will most likely not be able to start your own business anytime soon, you will have to start out with some blue collar job in order to pay your bills which will start accruing from your very first day in the US, unless of course you already have some millions saved somewhere, in which case you can live off of that until you're able to start your own business.
 
Sm1smom said:
Just like Simon already noted, why move if you you're feel like you're already living a dream life? I must say I'm truly amazed that a parent with pretty much very young kids will be asking for clarification on what "better life for the kids" in the U.S. compared to life in a 3rd world country means. As a parent ask yourself, what kind of a future do you envisage for your kids? Is that attainable if they were to stay back in your country? If you can honestly answer "Yes" to yourself without hesitation, then maybe you're truly better off staying back in your country. One thing is for sure if you move over to the US, you will most likely not be able to start your own business anytime soon, you will have to start out with some blue collar job in order to pay your bills which will start accruing from your very first day in the US, unless of course you already have some millions saved somewhere, in which case you can live off of that until you're able to start your own business.
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True, starting a business here while you are still new is a real hustle. Getting a top position job almost certainly is a real hustle to. So starting in a lower position working one's way up is ideal.
All the best Usken...Great idea though about self employment...come and do your best. One day in the near future, you'll have your own business(es)
 
Jorj said:
True, starting a business here while you are still new is a real hustle. Getting a top position job almost certainly is a real hustle to. So starting in a lower position working one's way up is ideal.
All the best Usken...Great idea though about self employment...come and do your best. One day in the near future, you'll have your own business(es)
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Hi Jorj. I hear and concur with you. Thanks
So much debate. So much insistence from B.simon and sm1smon about compulsory blue collar time.
I distilled and outlined my only worries here.
@Britsimon, @sm1smon, we in Kenya work very hard. We know how and are always willing to resiliently start from a scratch, work like a termite till challenges give way.Why the insistence blue collar jobs? can someone help me explore what banda said- go back to class (may be fund that from savings and internship) as an adaptation measure.
Even if one had massive resources, wiring them out is not the way to pursue success unless that success is retirement.
 
Sm1smom said:
Just like Simon already noted, why move if you you're feel like you're already living a dream life? I must say I'm truly amazed that a parent with pretty much very young kids will be asking for clarification on what "better life for the kids" in the U.S. compared to life in a 3rd world country means. As a parent ask yourself, what kind of a future do you envisage for your kids? Is that attainable if they were to stay back in your country? If you can honestly answer "Yes" to yourself without hesitation, then maybe you're truly better off staying back in your country. One thing is for sure if you move over to the US, you will most likely not be able to start your own business anytime soon, you will have to start out with some blue collar job in order to pay your bills which will start accruing from your very first day in the US, unless of course you already have some millions saved somewhere, in which case you can live off of that until you're able to start your own business.
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Millions? of which currency? have or not, living of savings is out of questions. Only an unwise termite would do that. Observe one day, that in the termite world, inadequacy of wisdom never arises. Like them as i do.
Do not be amazed. A Kenyan child can dare dream the world any day only that the ride is bit rougher and on that i can bet you my gc chance. The worries is expressed about our country affect kids, adults-all of us .Could you expound on this "blue collar" a little bit?
 
Britsimon said:
Not jaundiced yet, no. :D

Yeah I get that your points but reading the OPs post it sounds like he is happy where he is and doesn't want to take a job unless he reeeeaaally has to. Which he will. A blue collar job too so the end result will be a struggle. Most Americans in that situation would not be able to take international trips (like to Kenya)... Compare that with what he seems to feel is a pretty good life in a wonderful country. Just trying to empathise with the position...
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@ Britsimon. "which hewill. A blue job........" Why the certainty? Do not bet anything on this but point taken.
a Kenyan professional of repute can holiday anyhwere on earth, just that we attach too much premium to savings and investment.
i insist, save for security, graft and poor government services, this is a wonderful place to live in.
On lighter note, you are British and my english teacher taught that "would/can not be able to" is not good english!
 
usken go said:
@ Britsimon. "which hewill. A blue job........" Why the certainty? Do not bet anything on this but point taken.
a Kenyan professional of repute can holiday anyhwere on earth, just that we attach too much premium to savings and investment.
i insist, save for security, graft and poor government services, this is a wonderful place to live in.
On lighter note, you are British and my english teacher taught that "would/can not be able to" is not good english!
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Like I said before, everything is subjective.
Maybe security is more important to me than to you.

And yes I don't know why the insistence on blue collar jobs. Taking a step back - as is often the case when you move - does not mean taking it all the way back down, but no one here really knows your exact qualifications and experience.
 
usken go said:
Millions? of which currency? have or not, living of savings is out of questions. Only an unwise termite would do that. Observe one day, that in the termite world, inadequacy of wisdom never arises. Like them as i do.
Do not be amazed. A Kenyan child can dare dream the world any day only that the ride is bit rougher and on that i can bet you my gc chance. The worries is expressed about our country affect kids, adults-all of us .Could you expound on this "blue collar" a little bit?
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I apologize if my use of the term blue collar job comes across as offensive to you. I used the term because you stated you're in the construction business in your country and you hope to start your own business in the US rather than work for a salary (a tall pipe dream for a new immigrant IMO). It seemed to me that in order to be a able to do so some day, one would need to work with some already established construction giants in order to understand the ins and outs of the business in a new country. And I suppose one doesn't necessarily to be out working in the fields in order to get a foot in the business, so again I apologize for the blue collar term if it's not applicable to you.

I also happen to be originally from Africa, so you really can't paint a picture of how hard working Kenyans can be or how a Kenyan kid can dream the world and possibly attain it for me. How many really end up attaining these dreams? I know from first hand experience how things work in Africa, I lived the life!

Susie talked about security which I also think is a big deal back there. I don't consider living behind 10 feet tall fenced off building sometimes topped with barbed or live wires a good life regardless of the massive structure that may lay hidden behind the fence. I don't consider being scared to drive my fancy car for fear of being followed by armed robbers a good life. I don't consider the thought of me or a family member being kidnapped a good life. I don't consider going to queue up at the embassy every now and then for a visa to visit Europe and North America to visit for a couple of weeks for a taste of what I could be living everyday a good life. I don't consider having to bribe someone to do their job a good life. I don't consider living in a place where the justice system is so corrupt and does not work to protect the people it ought to a good life.

I consider being able to go to sleep on a Friday night while my teenage kid picks up his car keys and goes to his school at 7 pm to catch a football game and coming back home around around 11 pm - not having to worry about him getting kidnapped a good life. I consider the fact that my kids have a choice as to which college to attend and where to live upon graduation in the U.S. or Canada a good life. I consider the fact that the foundation for living a great life is being set for my kids while so many kids can only dream of things like this - a good life!
 
Why is everyone concerned about the term "blue collar"??? It isn't an insult, it is a category of work. I used that term all the time at work (in HR matters), and there is no dishonour in it!

Ok, so to try and explain again. I asked earlier what sort of worker you were, you replied that you get your hands dirty. In other words you can do the labouring job if needed. So that means that you could get employment as a skilled labourer in road building because you know that.

Could you be a manager? We'll not on your first arrival no. No one will know you, you won't be used to how things work here, such as techniques of road construction or "code" that you have to meet, nor will you know about rules of managing staff, nor will you know how to handle contracts and so on - so no.

Could you set up your own business in road construction on day 1. No. It doesn't matter how much money you have, you need to be licensed in order to obtain the contracts, the insurance, be able to hire workers. You would be fined heavily if you tried to do that unlicensed. Getting a license will take time, and in the mean time you will have American sized bills to pay. The smartest thing you could do to pay those bills is to do the road construction job so you can learn how it is done here, build contacts and so on. So, you will have some time doing blue collar work - nothing wrong with that and a good worker can make good money doing that.

Now then. Is the sort of life and opportunity you can create here worth taking a step back. We'll clearly as Mom explained there are many benefits to being here - it is a place where you can still create a very comfortable life. But you have to be realistic and honest with yourself about what you are leaving. If you live Kenya and are safe, and your kids will be too, then why leave. If there is doubt about that, then the USA can give you a wonderful life and you and your kids will have unlimited opportunity here.
 
Sm1smom said:
Susie talked about security which I also think is a big deal back there. I don't consider living behind 10 feet tall fenced off building sometimes topped with barbed or live wires a good life regardless of the massive structure that may lay hidden behind the fence. I don't consider being scared to drive my fancy car for fear of being followed by armed robbers a good life. I don't consider the thought of me or a family member being kidnapped a good life. I don't consider going to queue up at the embassy every now and then for a visa to visit Europe and North America to visit for a couple of weeks for a taste of what I could be living everyday a good life. I don't consider having to bribe someone to do their job a good life. I don't consider living in a place where the justice system is so corrupt and does not work to protect the people it ought to a good life.

I consider being able to go to sleep on a Friday night while my teenage kid picks up his car keys and goes to his school at 7 pm to catch a football game and coming back home around around 11 pm - not having to worry about him getting kidnapped a good life. I consider the fact that my kids have a choice as to which college to attend and where to live upon graduation in the U.S. or Canada a good life. I consider the fact that the foundation for living a great life is being set for my kids while so many kids can only dream of things like this - a good life!
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What an excellent post.
 
Sm1smom said:
I apologize if my use of the term blue collar job comes across as offensive to you. I used the term because you stated you're in the construction business in your country and you hope to start your own business in the US rather than work for a salary (a tall pipe dream for a new immigrant IMO). It seemed to me that in order to be a able to do so some day, one would need to work with some already established construction giants in order to understand the ins and outs of the business in a new country. And I suppose one doesn't necessarily to be out working in the fields in order to get a foot in the business, so again I apologize for the blue collar term if it's not applicable to you.

I also happen to be originally from Africa, so you really can't paint a picture of how hard working Kenyans can be or how a Kenyan kid can dream the world and possibly attain it for me. How many really end up attaining these dreams? I know from first hand experience how things work in Africa, I lived the life!

Susie talked about security which I also think is a big deal back there. I don't consider living behind 10 feet tall fenced off building sometimes topped with barbed or live wires a good life regardless of the massive structure that may lay hidden behind the fence. I don't consider being scared to drive my fancy car for fear of being followed by armed robbers a good life. I don't consider the thought of me or a family member being kidnapped a good life. I don't consider going to queue up at the embassy every now and then for a visa to visit Europe and North America to visit for a couple of weeks for a taste of what I could be living everyday a good life. I don't consider having to bribe someone to do their job a good life. I don't consider living in a place where the justice system is so corrupt and does not work to protect the people it ought to a good life.

I consider being able to go to sleep on a Friday night while my teenage kid picks up his car keys and goes to his school at 7 pm to catch a football game and coming back home around around 11 pm - not having to worry about him getting kidnapped a good life. I consider the fact that my kids have a choice as to which college to attend and where to live upon graduation in the U.S. or Canada a good life. I consider the fact that the foundation for living a great life is being set for my kids while so many kids can only dream of things like this - a good life!
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Eee..Eeee, which country is that?If you are describing Kenya with such words,It is Totally unfair.We are a peace full country and i think its an Insult to say"massive structure that may lay hidden behind the fence. I don't consider being scared to drive my fancy car for fear of being followed by armed robbers a good life."For your information,Kenyans are suffering terrorism because of supporting the western nation and that's why their aim is to target western Installation.We have also witnessed robbery with violence,shooting in school where you are saying your children attend..Kindly observe fairness...and NEVER generalize issue.
 
Simon said:
Eee..Eeee, which country is that?If you are describing Kenya with such words,It is Totally unfair.We are a peace full country and i think its an Insult to say"massive structure that may lay hidden behind the fence. I don't consider being scared to drive my fancy car for fear of being followed by armed robbers a good life."For your information,Kenyans are suffering terrorism because of supporting the western nation and that's why their aim is to target western Installation.We have also witnessed robbery with violence,shooting in school where you are saying your children attend..Kindly observe fairness...and NEVER generalize issue.
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You need to take your blinders off and learn to a comprehend what is written before taking paper to pen, you clearly failed to understand what my post was all about in your pathetic attempt at appearing patriotic and defending the honor of Kenya which you assumed had been raped in my write-up. This is exactly how strife and unrests are stirred up, people twisting up what's been said and giving it their own convoluted interpretations!

A word of caution: 'don't get started with me'!
 
And before some other smart Alec comes back with a retort about my post suggesting that life is all good and rosy in the US, I should make a clarification that that is not what I'm talking about. Life in the US has its ups and downs.

AFAIK, kids don't go school with guns in their backpacks to shoot up their classmates in Africa. Back when I was in Africa, fear of my kids being exposed to drugs and gang activities was far from my imagination. I'm not deluded into thinking that I can no longer be car-jacked just because I live in the US, there are some places I'm too scared to venture into because of the possibility of being car jacked or me possibly loosing my life in that process. Because I have a non-English sounding name, my resume could possibly get over-looked for postings that I possibly could be the best qualified candidate for. Because of my skin color I have to live with, sometimes perceived and sometimes real, racial discrimination. Heck, there a myriad of reasons why life can be difficult in the US, but at the end of the day, I still choose to live the good life it offers!
 
Sm1smom said:
You need to take your blinders off and learn to a comprehend what is written before taking paper to pen, you clearly failed to understand what my post was all about in your pathetic attempt at appearing patriotic and defending the honor of Kenya which you assumed had been raped in my write-up. This is exactly how strife and unrests are stirred up, people twisting up what's been said and giving it their own convoluted interpretations!

A word of caution: 'don't get started with me'!
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"Susie talked about security which I also think is a big deal back there."
 
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