DV 2015 KENYA SELECTEES FORUM

[Reez]

I was already divorced just didn't have the legal paper to show that but we weren't having a relationship whatsoever except whenever she wanted to talk to the child or whenever the child was to visit her on holiday, meanwhile I was already in a relationship with a 3 year child with my current spouse, kindly understand in my initial dv entry it was my current wife n children all am asking is it necessary to h a v e custody of my first born documented yet the mother is very much willing for the child to head if successful? With kindness also note I filled about what has happened in my life with much honesty the ds 260 n my other initial application, twists of marriage very confusing

This country you stay together with a woman for six months legally you're in marriage, as per the current constitution, all in all I did not list my first wife because I was no longer with her n already had gone to my current spouse home n did a traditional wedding after which we got a child together now when applying I was already with my current wife n children whom ofcourse I listed, I didn't divorce chapchap due to distance etc etc out of sight out of mind though we had agreed we will. Yes the photos were of my current family, legally on paper currently I presume not what was ? )

 

[Britsimon]

I was already divorced just didn't have the legal paper to show that but we weren't having a relationship whatsoever except whenever she wanted to talk to the child or whenever the child was to visit her on holiday, meanwhile I was already in a relationship with a 3 year child with my current spouse, kindly understand in my initial dv entry it was my current wife n children all am asking is it necessary to h a v e custody of my first born documented yet the mother is very much willing for the child to head if successful? With kindness also note I filled about what has happened in my life with much honesty the ds 260 n my other initial application, twists of marriage very confusing

The fact that you later obtained the "legal on paper" divorce shows that the legal process is necessary in your country. The CO will know that.

It sounds like you also listed your current wife in the initial entry - you weren't married to her so she should not have been on your entry at all.

Either one of these mistakes will cause disqualification.

I understand why you did what you did, and the CO will understand that too - but the outcome can only be one thing.

 

[Reez]

After going through this again I actually listed my current marriage date coz I had already gotten the marriage n divorce certs before filling the ds 260 would that help

The issue you should be concerned with IMO is the marriage date listed on your eDV application. My guess is you listed your current spouse on your eDV application, and it doesn't sound like you were legally divorced from your ex by then, you however finalized the divorce and recently obtained the divorce papers which enabled you to get a recent marriage certificate, correct? How do you plan on expanding that?

wo

 

[coronahope]

This is like pulling teeth. One last time.

If you entered that you were divorced on the initial eDV entry but do not have the paperwork to support that was your status at that time, you will be disqualified.
If you entered that you were married on the initial eDV entry but do not have the paperwork to support that was your status at that time, you will be disqualified.



OK - this makes it clearer.

So - on your initial DV entry you should have listed your marital status as married, and your ex wife should have been listed as your wife. You should also have included her photo. If you did something other than that you will be disqualified.
You were required to list all your children on the initial entry. If you did not, you will be disqualified.

The US immigration system will only count what is "legally on paper" .

I am saying this bluntly so that you can avoid paying fees if you have made a mistake.

@Britsimon, suppose I have been married for 10 years but through the customary law ( Happens in Africa). I have say 2 kiss with my wife. At the time of DV application our marriage status was still customary and I indicated 'married' on marital status. On DS 260 I indicated the customary marriage date as our marriage date. But now to get my visa approval I have to quickly get a government marriage certificate which will obviously bea a recent date. Will this scenario too lead to disqualification at interview.

 

[Simon]

I love how "affidavits" are seen as the defense to any situation....

...and especially when this happens in Eastern Africa...

 

[coronahope]

@Britsimon, suppose I have been married for 10 years but through the customary law ( Happens in Africa). I have say 2 kiss with my wife. At the time of DV application our marriage status was still customary and I indicated 'married' on marital status. On DS 260 I indicated the customary marriage date as our marriage date. But now to get my visa approval I have to quickly get a government marriage certificate which will obviously bea a recent date. Will this scenario too lead to disqualification at interview.

Sorry, meant 2 kids not kiss ( got more than 2 kisses over 10 years for sure)

 

[Simon]

Huh?

So on the initial DV entry you said you were divorced (although you were not actually divorced) OR you put your status as "married" to a new wife (whom you later married).

Sorry, meant 2 kids not kiss ( got more than 2 kisses over 10 years for sure)

Sorry, meant 2 kids not kiss ( got more than 2 kisses over 10 years for sure)

Its good to understand example in my case I married in 1997 (traditional) and had my first child in 1998,I officiated my marriage in 2006 then had my second and last children...at the embassy they considered my marriage to be 1997 (traditional) as per ds 260 and not 2006 since I indicated I married in 1998 in my ds 260 and the actual marriage certificate read 2006.So to me Embassies know most processes in Africa starts with traditional then officiating in most cases is trigger by certain legal development...Otherwise if it were not so...most embassies will judge late officiating of marriages to be" convenient marriages".Anyway this my opinion and not experts advise.

 

[Simon]

Indeed. So ridiculous!

EDIT:
I think affidavit is the new PEPTO BISMOL

...its a magic wand in East Africa...

 

[coronahope]

Its good to understand example in my case I married in 1997 (traditional) and had my first child in 1998,I officiated my marriage in 2006 then h
ad my second and last children...at the embassy they considered my marriage to be 1997 (traditional) as per ds 260 and not 2006 since I indicated I married in 1998 in my ds 260 and the actual marriage certificate read 2006.So to me Embassies know most processes in Africa starts with traditional then officiating in most cases is trigger by certain legal development...Otherwise if it were not so...most embassies will judge late officiating of marriages to be" convenient marriages".Anyway this my opinion and not experts advise.

Thanks Simon. Your example gives hope. Will wait for diverse views though.

 

[Simon]

Nah you ain't getting we were divorced we just didn't put pen to paper sometimes that's the way it goes though we were friends talking but we were to legalize the divorce at some point put in mind she had moved to a far city coz of getting employment over there though ours was finished by that time

In summary...I would say -in EAST AFRICAN-or as per our East African tradition which in most cases guides our courts (Constitution) there is a thin line between separation,legally separated and divorced.cohabiting,African marriages & legal marriages are now termed as a legal marriage here in Kenya...just an exmaple

 

[Sm1smom]

@Britsimon, suppose I have been married for 10 years but through the customary law ( Happens in Africa). I have say 2 kiss with my wife. At the time of DV application our marriage status was still customary and I indicated 'married' on marital status. On DS 260 I indicated the customary marriage date as our marriage date. But now to get my visa approval I have to quickly get a government marriage certificate which will obviously bea a recent date. Will this scenario too lead to disqualification at interview.

No it shouldn't lead to a disqualification in your case.

 

[Simon]

This country you stay together with a woman for six months legally you're in marriage, as per the current constitution, all in all I did not list my first wife because I was no longer with her n already had gone to my current spouse home n did a traditional wedding after which we got a child together now when applying I was already with my current wife n children whom ofcourse I listed, I didn't divorce chapchap due to distance etc etc out of sight out of mind though we had agreed we will. Yes the photos were of my current family, legally on paper currently I presume not what was ? )

Your point is so clear-as much as embassies are guided by the American constitution THEY WILL NEVER ignore the constitution of the host country.Why would (separate US embassies) insist on AOS to some countries and disregard the others-if cohabiting becomes a forced marriage,then an affidavit will prove as per the constitution she was a legal wife.With this case in mind the Government likewise has to create an EXIT PLAN for a marriage that does not work and that is -Once a woman stays away from you for more than six month without your consent that becomes a technical divorce-It has worked before even in Kenya courts...

 

[Sm1smom]

...its a magic wand in East Africa...

It may be the magic wand when dealing with the applicable local government. When it comes to immigration matters, it's a misconception to think of an affidavit as a panacea. COs at not so dumb as to believe those affidavits are worth the piece of paper they're written on.

 

[Simon]

It may be the magic wand when dealing with the applicable local government. When it comes to immigration matters, it's a misconception to think of an affidavit as a panacea. COs at not so dumb as to believe those affidavits are worth the piece of paper they're written on.

No need to reply on this...or spoil for a fight on this...This my opinion and I have clearly mentioned that..but-then Nairobi US embassy becomes an exemption in immigration law...as they have clearly indicated all attorneys on their website who can draft this "worthless document"

 

[Britsimon]

@Britsimon, suppose I have been married for 10 years but through the customary law ( Happens in Africa). I have say 2 kiss with my wife. At the time of DV application our marriage status was still customary and I indicated 'married' on marital status. On DS 260 I indicated the customary marriage date as our marriage date. But now to get my visa approval I have to quickly get a government marriage certificate which will obviously bea a recent date. Will this scenario too lead to disqualification at interview.

The US immigration system is (in my opinion) quite "accepting" of various forms of marriage. They do recognize some traditional marriages IF those marriages are recognized by the laws of the country where the marriage took place. Marriage is different all over the world - and the US accepts that, within reason.

For Reez, his case has disqualification written all over it. If he believed he was married to wife B, why did he get a legal divorce from wife A. He can't have been married to both of them because Kenya doesn't recognize Polygamous marriages and US immigration would have something to say about that too. He has correctly listed all the truthful details on his DS260, but I cannot see how he can get to the point where he was legally married to wife B at the point of the eDV entry.

 

[Sm1smom]

No need to reply on this...or spoil for a fight on this...This my opinion and I have clearly mentioned that..but-then Nairobi US embassy becomes an exemption in immigration law...as they have clearly indicated all attorneys on their website who can draft this "worthless document"

You don't tell me what to or what not to respond to. The fact that the Nairobi US embassy has a list of attorneys approved to draft affidavit does not mean every inaccuracy can be overcome by swearing an affidavit - that is clearly what we're trying to say here.

I guess according to you situations like "the names I used in registering for the DV lottery are not listed on any of my documents can I swear an affidavit stating they're my legal names" or "I have a kid with my ex-wife and we have joint custody of the kid but I want to take the child to the U.S. can I swear an affidavit stating that I have sole custody? Bottom line is swearing an affidavit is not necessarily an acceptable solution to a shady situation. And the Nairobi US embassy is NOT an "exemption in immigration law". That's a misleading BS!

And by the way, pointing out the inaccuracy in a post is not spoiling for a fight!!

 

[Sm1smom]

For Reez, his case has disqualification written all over it. He has correctly listed all the truthful details on his DS260, but I cannot see how he can get to the point where he was legally married to wife B at the point of the eDV entry.

Precisely the point I was trying to get across.

 

[Simon]

I was already divorced just didn't have the legal paper to show that but we weren't having a relationship whatsoever except whenever she wanted to talk to the child or whenever the child was to visit her on holiday, meanwhile I was already in a relationship with a 3 year child with my current spouse, kindly understand in my initial dv entry it was my current wife n children all am asking is it necessary to h a v e custody of my first born documented yet the mother is very much willing for the child to head if successful? With kindness also note I filled about what has happened in my life with much honesty the ds 260 n my other initial application, twists of marriage very confusing

Get me correctly and right

Ma

This is like pulling teeth. One last time.

If you entered that you were divorced on the initial eDV entry but do not have the paperwork to support that was your status at that time, you will be disqualified.
If you entered that you were married on the initial eDV entry but do not have the paperwork to support that was your status at that time, you will be disqualified.

OK - this makes it clearer.

So - on your initial DV entry you should have listed your marital status as married, and your ex wife should have been listed as your wife. You should also have included her photo. If you did something other than that you will be disqualified.
You were required to list all your children on the initial entry. If you did not, you will be disqualified.

The US immigration system will only count what is "legally on paper" .

I am saying this bluntly so that you can avoid paying fees if you have made a mistake.

Cohabiting

Precisely the point I was trying to get across.

If a Kenyan legal man cohabits another woman-Who becomes the real wife?The law states that cohabiting for more than 6 months is a legal marriage (This means the Government TECHNICALLY) issues a forced marriage certificate for co-habiting.Now when a married woman runs away from your marriage and agrees to her intention that's also becomes a TECHNICAL DIVORCE-Traditionally running away from a marriage becomes a separation and once elders,clan and the players agree to terminate the marriage it becomes a DIVORCE though not on paper.The other marriage started once he co-habited woman B.As per the advise... XXX... you will never be issued with a VISA as long as the first marriage divorce process overlapped your current marriage and nothing more can be salvaged ,However am of the opinion that-A VISA shall be issued to you as per my previous knowledge of Kenyan traditional marriages/Kenya marriage bill and almost similar( precedence ) cases issued with VISAS at Nairobi Embassy.However its upon you to digest diverse opinion...

 

[ingwe]

The US immigration system is (in my opinion) quite "accepting" of various forms of marriage. They do recognize some traditional marriages IF those marriages are recognized by the laws of the country where the marriage took place. Marriage is different all over the world - and the US accepts that, within reason.

For Reez, his case has disqualification written all over it. If he believed he was married to wife B, why did he get a legal divorce from wife A. He can't have been married to both of them because Kenya doesn't recognize Polygamous marriages and US immigration would have something to say about that too. He has correctly listed all the truthful details on his DS260, but I cannot see how he can get to the point where he was legally married to wife B at the point of the eDV entry.

Speaking of constitutions;in my country one can marry one wife on civil laws and a second wife on customary laws.Its acceptably lawfull.But this is not considered polygamy.

 

[Simon]

You don't tell me what to or what not to respond to. The fact that the Nairobi US embassy has a list of attorneys approved to draft affidavit does not mean every inaccuracy can be overcome by swearing an affidavit - that is clearly what we're trying to say here.

I guess according to you situations like "the names I used in registering for the DV lottery are not listed on any of my documents can I swear an affidavit stating they're my legal names" or "I have a kid with my ex-wife and we have joint custody of the kid but I want to take the child to the U.S. can I swear an affidavit stating that I have sole custody? Bottom line is swearing an affidavit is not necessarily an acceptable solution to a shady situation. And the Nairobi US embassy is NOT an "exemption in immigration law". That's a misleading BS!

And by the way, pointing out the inaccuracy in a post is not spoiling for a fight!!

Did I state that!!! Am thoughtful of what I say and always avoid being cheap...