Count 6 months from which date after GC?
- Thread starter gctechie
- Start date
It is a grey area isn't it. There is nothing in writing on this and yet it has you sweating on this. How could it then be a fact.
The Q??
Any example of someone who was penalized for quitting before 6 months. I have seen several examples of people who did quit before 6 months.
The Q??
Any example of someone who was penalized for quitting before 6 months. I have seen several examples of people who did quit before 6 months.
JoeF said:
JoeF,
Are you suggesting that these respected lawyers are wrong?
They may not be wrong, but may not be entirely correct either. Both of them DO NOT give a definite answer, just an optimistic opinion. As sai-2367 said its a grey area. Most definitely it is NOT a "fact".
Just because you don't happen to like what they are saying?
I dont think he said anything wrong.
If i were to say the following : There is no problem in shifting companies 3 months after GC , there is no way you can dis-prove my statement other than the "opinion" of Murthy & Khanna, right?
My statement is as much a "fact" as yours about quitting 6 months after GC.
What do you think?!
Are you suggesting that these respected lawyers are wrong?
They may not be wrong, but may not be entirely correct either. Both of them DO NOT give a definite answer, just an optimistic opinion. As sai-2367 said its a grey area. Most definitely it is NOT a "fact".
Just because you don't happen to like what they are saying?
I dont think he said anything wrong.
If i were to say the following : There is no problem in shifting companies 3 months after GC , there is no way you can dis-prove my statement other than the "opinion" of Murthy & Khanna, right?
My statement is as much a "fact" as yours about quitting 6 months after GC.
What do you think?!
How can 'good faith intent' be demonstrated ? The lawyers only have opinions in this matter and nothing more.
So the question is still unanswered ?
Q? Show me a case where someone was penalized for quitting his employer before 6 months. I have seen several cases where employees have quit before 6 months without any penalty.
Remember this: Who pays the lawyer's bill ? It is the employers and not the employees mostly. The opinion can always be tilted in such grey areas for reasons best known.
Now which side are you on anyway ? Who pays your bills considering the fact that most of your time is spend on such discussion forums tilting pseudo-facts.
So the question is still unanswered ?
Q? Show me a case where someone was penalized for quitting his employer before 6 months. I have seen several cases where employees have quit before 6 months without any penalty.
Remember this: Who pays the lawyer's bill ? It is the employers and not the employees mostly. The opinion can always be tilted in such grey areas for reasons best known.
Now which side are you on anyway ? Who pays your bills considering the fact that most of your time is spend on such discussion forums tilting pseudo-facts.
JoeF said:
JoeF said:
Hi. I am newer. but I reade all of your post. Instead of arguing the intent at the time of becoming a PR. I would like someone give a list of reasons/conditions/circumstances at wchich we can changing employer without geting problem in the future renewing GC or applyimg Citizen ship.
eg. at the following reasons/conditions/circumstances you can changing employer after you get GC in anytime or less than 3 months:
1. the employee get lay off by the employer
2. the employee's whole department get cut off by the employer
3. the employer closing its business
4. the employer get bankrupcy
5. the employer did not pay the LC salary
6. the empolyee's family move to another location, because his/her spouse find another job in the location.
...... we can put more here.
questions:
1. If it is ok to change job in less than 2/3/6 months, if the above thing happen?
2 what kind of documents should keep/provide to show this ?
if we can dicusss this kind HOW TO DO TO KEEP SAFE IF YOU HAVE TO CHANGE JOB? is much useful and practical than talking about the "intent" concept.
Thnaks
Lawyers like doctors take a conservative approach to a problem/situation esp. when the law or the patient's condition is vague.
It is one's own choice as to whether taking a risk is worth it.
If you think getting a citizenship is that important then one would be well advised to take minimal risks else you always can do what you think is fit at the moment.
Rgds,
Yeppo
It is one's own choice as to whether taking a risk is worth it.
If you think getting a citizenship is that important then one would be well advised to take minimal risks else you always can do what you think is fit at the moment.
Rgds,
Yeppo
Look, the 6 month issue is a "rule of thumb", something that would seem reasonable. There is no ruling, just practicle advice. If you change your job on the day you get approval, big deal, don't sweat it. Why imagine demons that aren't there and don't be bullied by other peoples opinions, after all that is what it is, an opinion - not fact. You know what they say, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one.
One side note, is it me or does anyone else get tired of this JoeF's derogatory comments to other peoples comments? Does this persons childishness get up anyone elses nose?
One side note, is it me or does anyone else get tired of this JoeF's derogatory comments to other peoples comments? Does this persons childishness get up anyone elses nose?
Folks, understand one thing. If you don't agree with JoeF, then you will be labeled as a *troll* by the great troll himself. Btw, I like the term troll...JoeF said:
JoeF, a simple request: Instead of just repeating the same old intent and links (which is now tattooed in my brain and, btw, many thanks to you), do you have anything else to provide on this thread? If not, why do you bother or keep repeating the same thing, over and over and over again...
Let other people talk and for once, spare us for some fresh/new opinions... We all know where you stand with your umpteen messages on this topic. Don't you ever get bored by posting the same mantra, over and over and over all the time? Man, I am really getting sick of typing this, for the second time, and wonder how you are able to do this for a long time.
Hats off to your perseverance but honestly and sadly, I might add, it's NOT helping much!
You need some real help... I mean, not a small set of doctors but there has to be a convention or research lab specifically devoted to study your brains and understand why/what is your motive behind repeating the same crap all the time!JoeF said:
You are one clueless guy or is it a gal, whatever! I am out of this thread from this moment... Adios and have a nice life!
qwerty987666
Banned
As usual, JoeF aka misleader has lost argument and started fight with many members. Ignore him. Rajiv has never said anything about "RULE OF DUMB", its JoeF's pick from his rotten brain tissues. As a matter of fact ,one of veteran member on this forum (dsatish) left his job within 3 months after GC with Rajiv's advice.
Also many members got similar advices from their lawyers. Does anybody want claim that all immigration lawyers are wrong and JoeF aka idiot is correct??? of course NOT. Ignore Him.Case closed
Also many members got similar advices from their lawyers. Does anybody want claim that all immigration lawyers are wrong and JoeF aka idiot is correct??? of course NOT. Ignore Him.Case closed
Considering the fact, that he has a weak argument JoeF wants to personify this issue and claim victory. It is sad that he is spreading wrong information in this group.
I have seen trolls being paid, to spread wrong information before, by people with agenda, and considering the fact that this is what JoeF does the whole day with such passion, only strengthens my theory.
I have seen trolls being paid, to spread wrong information before, by people with agenda, and considering the fact that this is what JoeF does the whole day with such passion, only strengthens my theory.
qwerty987666 said:As usual, JoeF aka misleader has lost argument and started fight with many members. Ignore him. Rajiv has never said anything about "RULE OF DUMB", its JoeF's pick from his rotten brain tissues. As a matter of fact ,one of veteran member on this forum (dsatish) left his job within 3 months after GC with Rajiv's advice.
Also many members got similar advices from their lawyers. Does anybody want claim that all immigration lawyers are wrong and JoeF aka idiot is correct??? of course NOT. Ignore Him.Case closed
qwerty987666
Banned
Rajiv has never said anything about "RULE OF DUMB", its JoeF's pick from his rotten brain tissues. As a matter of fact ,one of veteran member on this forum (dsatish) left his job within 3 months after GC with Rajiv's advice.JoeF said:
Also many members got similar advices from their lawyers. Does anybody want claim that all immigration lawyers are wrong and JoeF aka idiot is correct??? of course NOT.
JoeF, do you want to claim that all immigration lawyers including Rajiv is wrong??qwerty987666
Banned
JoeF said:
So JoeF claims that all immigration lawyers including Rajiv is wrong?? All BS.
Moderator and Admin, please take a note about such a rubbish information spread by JoeF on Rajiv's website. JoeF is using Rajiv's website to malign his image. JoeF is due for stern warning from Admin at once.
Ok guys, this is going to be my final post, here's what my esteemed lawyer has to say about this:
"However, as a matter of general information, the rule is that at the time a person processes for an I-551 stamp, it is that point at which the person becomes a permanent resident. Also, at that time, both the employer and employee must intend for there to be a "continuous, ongoing" employment relationship. There is no specific length of time a person must remain employed following becoming a permanent resident and circumstances can change for a variety of legitimate reasons. However, a termination of the relationship very soon after the process is finalized, by either the employer or employee, could later be viewed as suspect, especially if the employee wished to become a citizen. The naturalization forms ask for a history of employment."
Thanks to all for their input.Iam not planning for naturalization so Iam going to do what is best for me and my family.
"However, as a matter of general information, the rule is that at the time a person processes for an I-551 stamp, it is that point at which the person becomes a permanent resident. Also, at that time, both the employer and employee must intend for there to be a "continuous, ongoing" employment relationship. There is no specific length of time a person must remain employed following becoming a permanent resident and circumstances can change for a variety of legitimate reasons. However, a termination of the relationship very soon after the process is finalized, by either the employer or employee, could later be viewed as suspect, especially if the employee wished to become a citizen. The naturalization forms ask for a history of employment."
Thanks to all for their input.Iam not planning for naturalization so Iam going to do what is best for me and my family.
It appears that anyone who disagrees with JoeF or is tired of his childish name calling is labelled a "troll".
This is akin to during the 50's to label someone a communist or earlier to label someone a "witch". Joe's tactics are pretty obvious, his basis for his point of view is being challenged, he gets threatened, so instead of aggreeing with others that maybe he doesn't hold the source of all knowledge, he results in name calling to try to discredit someone.
My question is why does the moderator of the board allow one individual to hijack this board?
I may not agree with those that taunt JoeF, but I think they are a product of JoeF - namely that they wouldn't be here taunting him if he wasn't such a jerk and it appears that the moderator doesn't keep him in check.
It would appear the more obstinate and name calling JoeF becomes, the more taunting by others. Cause and effect. JoeF is the source of the "trolls" wether real or imagined.
JoeF, for the rest of us and the benefit of this board, keep your personal attacks and derogatory comments from this board and remove your silly tag lines - just stick to the facts.
This is akin to during the 50's to label someone a communist or earlier to label someone a "witch". Joe's tactics are pretty obvious, his basis for his point of view is being challenged, he gets threatened, so instead of aggreeing with others that maybe he doesn't hold the source of all knowledge, he results in name calling to try to discredit someone.
My question is why does the moderator of the board allow one individual to hijack this board?
I may not agree with those that taunt JoeF, but I think they are a product of JoeF - namely that they wouldn't be here taunting him if he wasn't such a jerk and it appears that the moderator doesn't keep him in check.
It would appear the more obstinate and name calling JoeF becomes, the more taunting by others. Cause and effect. JoeF is the source of the "trolls" wether real or imagined.
JoeF, for the rest of us and the benefit of this board, keep your personal attacks and derogatory comments from this board and remove your silly tag lines - just stick to the facts.
My thoughts
My God, looks like this forum can't stay away from this topic. I agree that this topic is the single most important topic for any one who just gets his GC approved. But i thought that we have discussed enough in a thread and people can make a decision based on the arguments put forward in that thread. After seeing so much unnecessary fights in this forum i have stopped visiting this forum daily. I now visit it once in 3 or 4 days.
After i got my GC, i started visiting this forum and startled to find JoeF's comments on this issue. Till then i have never heard any one saying that you better work for atleast 6 months with the sponsoring employer (i never read murthy's or rajiv's FAQ, but i guess many people hadn't either because these two are not the only immigration lawyers out there). The only thing i know was that people start looking for better jobs (and do change jobs) immediately after gettting GC. It is generally known that a GC holder is free to do what ever he wants to. That's why i have countered JoeF pretty hard in the original thread and i was looking for a convincing argument from the proponents of 6 month thumb rule. But the only thing i found from JoeF was that he is just posting what Murthy or Rajiv has said, and he is not saying anything convincingly on his own. After reading murthy's FAQ, it is clear to me that there are factual errors in it . In the beginning of the second paragraph, which was the basis for her suggestion,she says that "Clearly, the law before AC21 was passed in October 2000 required that a person continue working with the employer that sponsored the green card for at least 6 months to 1 year after obtaining the green card ". Every body knows that it is incorrect. That's why i don't give any credit to her advise.
But before changing jobs, iwanted to talk to an attorney, just to be safe. I didn't want to talk to the attorney who filed my I485 because i thought that his interests will be with the employer. So i have called Rajiv and discussed this issue. I wouldn't tell you guys about what Rajiv said on this issue because that's a private call, but i would only say that, it was clear to me that there is nothing in the law that requires a person to work for certain period with the sponsor after getting the GC and also there are no big risks if you change job even after 1 month. I have decided to change job after 1 month and started looking for better opportunities, but it took a couple of months to close the deal and leave the sponsoring employer. Finally i have changed jobs 3.5 months after getting my GC (I485 approval).
As a final word , here is what i suggest, based on my understanding on this issue :
scenario 1) After getting GC, the sponsoring employer pays you about 24K($2000 per month) less than market rate, and you get a good permanent job, then you should take that new job after completing 1 month with the sponsor.
scenario2) After GC, if the employer pays you about 12K less than market rate, then better wait for atleast 2 months and quit after after 2 months only for a good permanet job
scenario3) If you are paid more than 12K less than the market rate, but don't get a good permanent job within 1 to 3 months, then i would suggest people to cotinue working for the sponsoring employer for 3 months. Once you complete 3 months, then do what ever you want.
scenario4) The above 3 scenarios are for people who have been getting smaller pay for the past 1 year (prior to GC approval). But if you have been getting a good salary (more than 80K in most places and more than 90K in NY/NJ/CA areas) for the past past 1 year, then you better stay with the sponsoring employer for 6 months, just to have a very good peace of mind (you guys can afford losing a few dollars). Now we know why some good lawyers advise you to stay for 6 months. They want your and their own peace of mind, but those suggestions do not consider individual circumstances.
scenario5) Irrespective of salary differences, if there is a potential threat that the GC sponsorer(employer) may complain to INS about your leaving the company, then it is better to work for atleast 3 months. That way you are covered under the 30-60-90 day guidelines (which might be the only guide line / regulation that comes closest to this issue).
I fall under scenario3 (difference in pay is huge, but couldn't get a good permanent job within 3 months).
PS 1: I have talked to Rajiv because i have worked with him on immigrationportal.org . I wouldn't recommend every one to call Rajiv and ask him about his opinion on this issue, because he(Rajiv) has already posted his PUBLIC opinion on this issue. It clearly says that it is just his guess. So don't attach too much importance to his public advise. Make your own decision based on your circumstances. Please remember that Rajiv and Sheela aren't the only immigration lawyers out there. They are just 2 among thousands of lawyers and from what we have heard from different people, different lawyers have different suggestion on this issue. So act as per your conscience.
PS2 : Every thing i said is my personal opinion. It is not an argument against anything any one has said. Just as i kept myself away(in this post) from attacking any one's post, i would appreciate if people can post their opinions without quoting my post (if you quote me and post a counter opinion, then it implies that you are arguing with me. Though it is fine in many circumstanes, i would like to keep a distance from the bickerings on this issue).
My God, looks like this forum can't stay away from this topic. I agree that this topic is the single most important topic for any one who just gets his GC approved. But i thought that we have discussed enough in a thread and people can make a decision based on the arguments put forward in that thread. After seeing so much unnecessary fights in this forum i have stopped visiting this forum daily. I now visit it once in 3 or 4 days.
After i got my GC, i started visiting this forum and startled to find JoeF's comments on this issue. Till then i have never heard any one saying that you better work for atleast 6 months with the sponsoring employer (i never read murthy's or rajiv's FAQ, but i guess many people hadn't either because these two are not the only immigration lawyers out there). The only thing i know was that people start looking for better jobs (and do change jobs) immediately after gettting GC. It is generally known that a GC holder is free to do what ever he wants to. That's why i have countered JoeF pretty hard in the original thread and i was looking for a convincing argument from the proponents of 6 month thumb rule. But the only thing i found from JoeF was that he is just posting what Murthy or Rajiv has said, and he is not saying anything convincingly on his own. After reading murthy's FAQ, it is clear to me that there are factual errors in it . In the beginning of the second paragraph, which was the basis for her suggestion,she says that "Clearly, the law before AC21 was passed in October 2000 required that a person continue working with the employer that sponsored the green card for at least 6 months to 1 year after obtaining the green card ". Every body knows that it is incorrect. That's why i don't give any credit to her advise.
But before changing jobs, iwanted to talk to an attorney, just to be safe. I didn't want to talk to the attorney who filed my I485 because i thought that his interests will be with the employer. So i have called Rajiv and discussed this issue. I wouldn't tell you guys about what Rajiv said on this issue because that's a private call, but i would only say that, it was clear to me that there is nothing in the law that requires a person to work for certain period with the sponsor after getting the GC and also there are no big risks if you change job even after 1 month. I have decided to change job after 1 month and started looking for better opportunities, but it took a couple of months to close the deal and leave the sponsoring employer. Finally i have changed jobs 3.5 months after getting my GC (I485 approval).
As a final word , here is what i suggest, based on my understanding on this issue :
scenario 1) After getting GC, the sponsoring employer pays you about 24K($2000 per month) less than market rate, and you get a good permanent job, then you should take that new job after completing 1 month with the sponsor.
scenario2) After GC, if the employer pays you about 12K less than market rate, then better wait for atleast 2 months and quit after after 2 months only for a good permanet job
scenario3) If you are paid more than 12K less than the market rate, but don't get a good permanent job within 1 to 3 months, then i would suggest people to cotinue working for the sponsoring employer for 3 months. Once you complete 3 months, then do what ever you want.
scenario4) The above 3 scenarios are for people who have been getting smaller pay for the past 1 year (prior to GC approval). But if you have been getting a good salary (more than 80K in most places and more than 90K in NY/NJ/CA areas) for the past past 1 year, then you better stay with the sponsoring employer for 6 months, just to have a very good peace of mind (you guys can afford losing a few dollars). Now we know why some good lawyers advise you to stay for 6 months. They want your and their own peace of mind, but those suggestions do not consider individual circumstances.
scenario5) Irrespective of salary differences, if there is a potential threat that the GC sponsorer(employer) may complain to INS about your leaving the company, then it is better to work for atleast 3 months. That way you are covered under the 30-60-90 day guidelines (which might be the only guide line / regulation that comes closest to this issue).
I fall under scenario3 (difference in pay is huge, but couldn't get a good permanent job within 3 months).
PS 1: I have talked to Rajiv because i have worked with him on immigrationportal.org . I wouldn't recommend every one to call Rajiv and ask him about his opinion on this issue, because he(Rajiv) has already posted his PUBLIC opinion on this issue. It clearly says that it is just his guess. So don't attach too much importance to his public advise. Make your own decision based on your circumstances. Please remember that Rajiv and Sheela aren't the only immigration lawyers out there. They are just 2 among thousands of lawyers and from what we have heard from different people, different lawyers have different suggestion on this issue. So act as per your conscience.
PS2 : Every thing i said is my personal opinion. It is not an argument against anything any one has said. Just as i kept myself away(in this post) from attacking any one's post, i would appreciate if people can post their opinions without quoting my post (if you quote me and post a counter opinion, then it implies that you are arguing with me. Though it is fine in many circumstanes, i would like to keep a distance from the bickerings on this issue).
Last edited by a moderator:
qwerty987666
Banned
dsatish said:
dsatish said:
Exactly, thats what the point is. Bottomline is, everybody has to decide it on their own, be it 1 month or year, its their choice as there is no such timeframe associated with this decesion.
There is no such rule as "You have to work for 6months with employer", its a just one of many misadvices from JoeF. So ignore him. JoeF has no credentials and all his postings are nothing but BS and crap to mislead members.
I broke my promise not to come back to this thread , I agree with dsatish that since there is nowhere a law which states this 180 day rule, we are free from this burden of abiding by a date.
Whatever reason one has , is good enough as eventually we are doing this for our family and ourselves.
From what my lawyer says, the only forseeable issue which might arise is during the naturalisation process(again there is no case to date , at least on this forum).
So we can safely put this issue to bed , unless someone comes up with some damning evidence .
Now we just have to find some other topic to snipe and start flame wars
, I agree with dsatish that since there is nowhere a law which states this 180 day rule, we are free from this burden of abiding by a date.Whatever reason one has , is good enough as eventually we are doing this for our family and ourselves.
From what my lawyer says, the only forseeable issue which might arise is during the naturalisation process(again there is no case to date , at least on this forum).
So we can safely put this issue to bed , unless someone comes up with some damning evidence .
Now we just have to find some other topic to snipe and start flame wars