Count 6 months from which date after GC?

G

gctechie

Registered Users (C)
I wanted the opinion of the members in this forum with regard to the following question -

I know that there has been a lot of debate about the 6 month thumb rule JoeF talked about. My intention is not a debate on that.

My question is, assuming Iam waiting for 6 months before leaving sponsoring employer, then which date would i count the 6 months from?

Would that be the I-485 approval date or the Passport stamping date or the plastic card issue date?
 
It's 485 approval date.

Btw, in the plastic card, the entry for "Resident Since" should state the 485 approval date. In my friend's card, it doesn't match. In fact, "Resident Since" entry in the card is 15 days earlier than the actual 485 approval date. Anyone see an issue with this mis-match?
 
JoeF said:
Yes, that can be a problem. The normal way to correct that is to file an I-90. Since stuff like this is their error, there is no fee for it (although the photos have to be provided.)
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Hmmm, why would that be a problem? If there are errors in the name or DOB or A# or Country of Birth fields, then I see a problem. But, the "Resident Since" entry is just used as a historical data and that too, with just 15 days difference - who knows, maybe, USCIS had *actually* approved it 15 days before they could update the status of the case - Would that be a valid reason?
 
Thanks for the response guys.

I guess the I-485 approval notice date is the definitive date that USCIS counts.

Iam planning to give it 3 months anyways, after 3 months will evaluate options and then give it another 3 months if possible. Otherwise am planning to join new company after 3 months.

My take is that as long as there are no serious issues with the employer its ok to wait for atleast 3 months, if possible 6 months before quitting the sponsoring employer.

I would take the Consular Processing 30-60-90 day rule and apply the 90 days as a start point for non-Consular processing. Just to be on the safe side.
 
Here' s the deal guys. Why should we take a rule of thumb when there is none(at least not to my knowledge). In my case, I may change my job because of family reasons , what happens if I change the job after 42(random) days and not 60?
What happens? Does INS come with a revocation order of my green card? Does this cause a problem when applying for citizenship?
These are the questions we really need to be asking and answering.
On my part, Iam going to ask Ford and Harrison , my company lawyers and whatever info I get I will divulge.
 
I think there is nothing plain and simple about this rule of thumb you are talking about. I have the best of intentions and intend to work for my company. But due to circumstances beyond my control , I may need to change my job.
I did read the article by Khanna and also noted the last paragraph regarding the ambuiguity regarding "when is a good time".
So in my IMO, my question remains unanswered.
Like I said earlier I will contact my lawyer and get an answer to this.
 
JoeF said:
Well, if you can document these circumstances, that should be ok. Examples are: the employer doesn't pay the agreed-upon salary, the employer wants to send you to a different location not specified on the LC, ...
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Now the question is for what do I document this for? For an enquiry ? If so,by whom?
I would guess only if the employer goes complaining to the authorities that I left without fulfilling my obligations(very unlikely in my case but likely in others).
Iam sorry to bring up this topic from the dead, but this is important to me and I need to make a decision soon .
 
As i mentioned before, i think any rule of thumb is just that - rule of thumb. I dont think it makes a difference whether it is 4 months or 5 months or 6 months. Its just that the more time you put in after your GC with your sponsoring employer, the more you protect yourself against any POSSIBILITY of issues with the USCIS.

raminator,

Would be interested to know what your lawyer told you. Iam also in a similar position.
 
gctechie said:
As i mentioned before, i think any rule of thumb is just that - rule of thumb. I dont think it makes a difference whether it is 4 months or 5 months or 6 months. Its just that the more time you put in after your GC with your sponsoring employer, the more you protect yourself against any POSSIBILITY of issues with the USCIS.

raminator,

Would be interested to know what your lawyer told you. Iam also in a similar position.
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I am in the same situation and planning to change jobs (would be around 60 days from the time of GC approval). I checked with the lawyers ( from the company who filed my GC) and they said it would not be a problem to join another company. The lawyers said that after GC approval, I can change jobs any time. I did ask her about this rule of thumb and she said it is no problem. It is a big consulting company and has hundreds of GCs filed each year. I have after careful deliberations decided to change job . Since the company I will be joining is a client of my GC company, I do not think they would go and complain to the authorities. (hopefully).
I would really like to know if ever a GC was revoked due to change of jobs within 3/6/any time after getting GC I know we should not take a chance, just because it has not happened before, but I am curious if ever it happened. ( or it is just a legend that has been passed around ) :D
 
nsr2004 said:
I am in the same situation and planning to change jobs (would be around 60 days from the time of GC approval). I checked with the lawyers ( from the company who filed my GC) and they said it would not be a problem to join another company. The lawyers said that after GC approval, I can change jobs any time. I did ask her about this rule of thumb and she said it is no problem. It is a big consulting company and has hundreds of GCs filed each year. :D
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Do you have lawyers "exact"response in mail or hard copy?? Can you post that response on this forum? That way this issue will be over once for all. For long time, members are misleaded that "they have to stay for 6months with GC sponserer". But your lawyers response will put all those hoax's to rest. Also please let everybody know lawyer firm name if its not a big deal.
 
qwerty987666 said:
Do you have lawyers "exact"response in mail or hard copy?? Can you post that response on this forum? That way this issue will be over once for all. For long time, members are misleaded that "they have to stay for 6months with GC sponserer". But your lawyers response will put all those hoax's to rest. Also please let everybody know lawyer firm name if its not a big deal.
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My conversation unfortunately was on phone. I do not have a mail/hard copy of my discussion with my lawyer. But the way the lawyer sounded, she was very confident that it was an ok thing to do and no problems whatsoever in doing so. It is an inhouse law firm, and what suprised me is even if there was a slightest chance of a problem, they always want to take the side of the company and not the employee. I also would like to see if anyone has seen or heard anyone getting affected due to changing company before 6 months. Even if there is one person affected, it is better to be on safe side, or else let people take decision what they feel helpful.
 
nsr2004 said:
My conversation unfortunately was on phone. I do not have a mail/hard copy of my discussion with my lawyer. But the way the lawyer sounded, she was very confident that it was an ok thing to do and no problems whatsoever in doing so. It is an inhouse law firm, and what suprised me is even if there was a slightest chance of a problem, they always want to take the side of the company and not the employee. I also would like to see if anyone has seen or heard anyone getting affected due to changing company before 6 months. Even if there is one person affected, it is better to be on safe side, or else let people take decision what they feel helpful.
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If possible, why don't you make some written(email) correspondance with your lawyer and get reply in writing. In that you will be more assured. If you do that, please post lawyers response here for all as For long time, members are misleaded by JoeF that "they have to stay for 6months with GC sponserer". But your lawyers response will put all those hoax's to rest.
 
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But JoeF, our issues(nsr and gctechie and myself) are exactly to do with the changing of jobs within this so called rule of thumb period(we all have the noblest intentions) and you are not helping in this discussion by posting the same thread from Khanna/Murthy which has no real life example to prove their case(at least in the document).
I have written to my lawyer today and I will get an answer , so till we get something back from our lawyers , I would request folks to sit tight and hang loose.
 
that's where lawyers (Mr. Khanna and Ms. Murthy are just two prominent examples) have come up with some rough timeframes of around 6 months.

JoeF,

I do understand where you are coming from. Waiting for 6 months simply shuts out 99.99% of any chance of having an issue, thats why Murthy & Khanna prescribes it.

However they are not lawmakers, they dont even interpret the law - that is something the judges do. The best an attorney does is to give advice as to what they think the law might be interpreted as.

The better idea would be to go with judgements pronounced on similar cases and extrapolate. We know about the consular processing case and the 30-60-90 rule. I would think, that judgement, for a process which is very similar should provide some kind of a pessimistic baseline.

What raminator's attorney told him would still be significant because the general issue is the same - i highly doubt whether raminator's case had any details which makes his case radically different from ours. Even a lawyer's advice cannot be taken as "law" but it would go a long way in helping to make a decision ( only a judge's decision is 100% fail-safe anyways )
 
So now the ball is in my court to pester my lawyer and get you good fer nothing fellas all the valuable info :D ;)
 
They didn't come up with this rule of thumb out of thin air..

I think they did. Infact Murthy says the following - its better to wait 6 months to 1 year to 2 years..wait atleast 6 months ( which means they dont really have a clue ) If they really did a historical analysis then they would have quoted so-and-so case. I think they totally pulled the number out of the air - sort of in-between safe sort of number.

So now the ball is in my court to pester my lawyer and get you good fer nothing fellas all the valuable info

Do something useful once in a while.. :D :p

raminator,
If you could ask your attorney whether there is any historical case / precedent for this that would be good!
 
Folks,

I've put together lots of *wise* words from JoeF and came up with a modified rule-of-thumb and to top it off, JoeF himself blessed it... What more can you expect... Without much ado, here it goes:

From the 485 approval date, stay with the employer for at least 6 months on the same job (as mentioned in LC) and at the same location. If you don't, then you are <FILL-IN-WHATEVER-SUITS-YOU>!
 
JoeF said:
Trying to be a smart-aleck, huh???
I knew there was a reason why I had you in my killfile...
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I am in your killfile and still got to you. Must be a really smartie pie :D
 
I don't understand all the fuzz surrounding this issue. Ms. Murthy and Mr. Khanna said something about 6 mos as a rule of thumb for staying with the sponsoring employer to show the intent of working for the employer - after getting the GC. Now, some lawyers said something about it's fine to change job right away after the GC. The law is all about the intent, nothing else. In both cases, intent may be hard to prove in a court of law. Whatever works for one may not work for the other. That's why it's based on individual circumstance. So I suggest you decide based on your gut - after hearing all the advices/arguments from different sources, including lawyers. Whatever you or the source you trust - maybe another lay person or a lawyer - think is safe for you, go with that. That is your own circumstance. If it comes to a point in the future that you have to show the intent after the PR - naturalization as an example - then that's when you know that you have made a good or bad decision in changing job after the GC. That would be befitting your own circumstance. All the arguments laid out on this thread are just interpretations - wether self or from other sources - of the PR intent law. They serve as guidelines. In the end, you weigh all of these and decide for yourself.
 
Any example of someone who was penalized for quitting before 6 months. I have seen several examples of people who did quit before 6 months.

Once again, I am only looking for examples that confirm or deny this pseudo-fact and do not want to spark another row of discussions.

ar888 could you please find any such example from Rajiv ?

JoeF said:
No serious lawyer says that. There is a fine distinction that most people in this discussion miss, although I always try to point it out: of course PRs can change jobs freely. But a PR who got the GC through employment is required at the time of getting the GC to have the good faith intent to work for the employer.
That's what every good lawyer will say.
Exactly. 6 months is just a rule of thumb that works for most people. Individual circumstances may justify a shorter or longer period.
But I have said that so often in these threads that I now have to assume that all the people who try to fight with me over this are not interested in this at all, they just want to fight anything, as long as they can fight. That is obvious with qwerty trying to pick fights with other people when I'm not around, as he did the last couple of days, by insulting other people.
So, if these troublemakers, currently qwerty, mrz and funnywait, are just ignored, the disruption of this forum will subside.
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