changing employer after GC

[koolvik7]

Hello,

Can you please let me know when did u become US citizen and what is your DO? What did you say when the question was asked abt the job?

Thanks much,
akapoor

Please check for my signature about the date for becoming USC at Washington DC DO. The only question that was asked to me was if I am still working for the last Employer on my N-400 application (not the one on my GC Petition). This was my latest (4th Employer) after my GC Petition employer. Hope this helps, please let me know if I could help more.

 

[Jackolantern]

I have a friend who worked with me for many years. We were hired as H1Bs together, but my GC came through bit faster than his. He left the sponsor less than a month after getting his GC (two weeks actually!). On the natz interview, he was not asked any questions about why he left the company that soon, although he did put all the correct dates on the N400 - I know that for sure because I saw his N400 before he mailed it. He cleared the interview and got his natz certificate in due time.

Because there is no law or regulation that is specific about how long you should work for the sponsor after GC approval, the IOs will be very inconsistent about it and you can't use other's experience to predict your own. They won't be consistent until a court case or regulation gives a specific limit. The challenge is to guess where the court will draw the line, and try to position yourself to end up on the good side of that line.

 

[mir_0907]

In the following USCIS link : http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

It says under Rights : "To be employed in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing."

There is no exception mentioned for the issue under discussion in this thread.

Because there is no law or regulation that is specific about how long you should work for the sponsor after GC approval, the IOs will be very inconsistent about it and you can't use other's experience to predict your own. They won't be consistent until a court case or regulation gives a specific limit. The challenge is to guess where the court will draw the line, and try to position yourself to end up on the good side of that line.

 

[nj_skm]

In the following USCIS link : http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

It says under Rights : "To be employed in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing."

There is no exception mentioned for the issue under discussion in this thread.

VERY interesting. I like what I see:

Some of you came to the United States as immigrants through a relative or through an employer. Some of you came as refugees or were given asylum status. And some of you came through other programs, like the Diversity Visa Lottery. But now that you are Permanent Residents you all share the same status.

No complaints against that!

And here's what I consider critical:

To be employed in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing.

If I have to fight it out in the courts, I'd say "Defense exhibits item A: Link from above".
I don't see how ANY judge could argue against this. Also this is the status as of my GC approval. I don't care how the law changes five years from now.
I'm very reassured now.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

If I have to fight it out in the courts, I'd say "Defense exhibits item A: Link from above". I don't see how ANY judge could argue against this. Also this is the status as of my GC approval. I don't care how the law changes five years from now.

Here's what your missing. If you switch employers "too soon", USCIS will not come after you because you switched jobs. As you correctly point out, you have the right to the employer of your choice in the field of your choice and your employment will be perfectly legal.

What you do NOT have the right to do is make a misrepresentation to USCIS when obtaining your permanent residency, and you obtained the GC based on your stated intent to work for the employer in a permanent position after becoming a Permanent Resident. Case law clearly allows USCIS to make inferences on your intent based on your actions, and USCIS could claim that you never intended to work for the employer if you leave immediately (or "too soon") after receiving your GC.

And in such a situation your argument that you have the right to work for whomever you please would be accurate, but also irrelevant.

 

[nj_skm]

What you do NOT have the right to do is make a misrepresentation to USCIS when obtaining your permanent residency, and you obtained the GC based on your stated intent to work for the employer in a permanent position after becoming a Permanent Resident.

You COULD be right but I'm still satisfied.
However, I never had an intent to misrepresent or jump at the first possible opportunity, which can be demonstrated by the fact that I stayed with the sponsoring employer for 17 months after 485 filing, which I didn't have to.
Of course, it's for a future job and hence the above argument may not hold water. But it does demonstrate an intent to continue, even when I had the opportunity to leave.
Also in case of AC21, the waters are slightly muddied as the law makes a provision to leave before GC being approved, years in advance in certain cases, as long as it is made in good faith and sincere intent can be proved.
And so the argument could go on... ( I hope I don't have to make this later, but I will do it if I have to).

 

[TheRealCanadian]

However, I never had an intent to misrepresent or jump at the first possible opportunity, which can be demonstrated by the fact that I stayed with the sponsoring employer for 17 months after 485 filing, which I didn't have to.

The fact that you stayed for over a year should mean you're fine. That's what you should base any defense upon.

Look at it from the eyes of a marriage. Clearly, someone here on a GC has the absolute right to marry anyone they want (outside of a blood relative). If someone is sponsored by a US citizen spouse and then files for divorce right after getting the GC (assuming an unconditional GC) it would be logical to presume misrepresentation for the GC. After a period of time, less so until it's just silly.

I think the same thinking applies in EB cases, with the added advantage that employment relationships tend to be less permanent than marriages, which says something. Clearly, a person who stays with the employer for several months or over a year shouldn't have much to worry about. Less than that really comes down to appetite for risk.

 

[Jackolantern]

You COULD be right but I'm still satisfied.
However, I never had an intent to misrepresent or jump at the first possible opportunity, which can be demonstrated by the fact that I stayed with the sponsoring employer for 17 months after 485 filing, which I didn't have to.

TRC and I were not talking about your case in particular. We were addressing the misconception being promoted that one day of post-GC employment is always sufficient.

 

[Jackolantern]

Here's what your missing. If you switch employers "too soon", USCIS will not come after you because you switched jobs. As you correctly point out, you have the right to the employer of your choice in the field of your choice and your employment will be perfectly legal.

What you do NOT have the right to do is make a misrepresentation to USCIS when obtaining your permanent residency, and you obtained the GC based on your stated intent to work for the employer in a permanent position after becoming a Permanent Resident. Case law clearly allows USCIS to make inferences on your intent based on your actions, and USCIS could claim that you never intended to work for the employer if you leave immediately (or "too soon") after receiving your GC.

Exactly. I gave an example in another thread about somebody calling in sick for work and claiming to be in pain all over, etc. Then that same evening they go playing basketball for hours. Boss sees them and fires them for cause.

In such a case, they were not fired for playing basketball, which they had every right to do as it was after hours and not on company property. The firing was for lying earlier in the day; playing basketball was an event that exposed the lie. Similarly, leaving the employer too soon is potentially a problem not because changing jobs quickly is wrong, but because changing jobs quickly is an indicator that you lied earlier in the process.

 

[StonedAnt]

What is frustrating here is the time supposedly being "counted" is the months spent working AFTER submission of I-485 and/or after receiving GC. I feel this is not fair for people who got stuck in the labor certification backlogs as they too spent enough time working for that particular employer.

In other words, an employee who got stuck in labor backlogs for 2 years but less than a year in 485 has a lesser defense than say one who got stuck in name/background/etc checks for 2 years because the latter had already filed their I485.

Yes yes, I know, life is not fair so why should USCIS be.


Stoned!

 

[mir_0907]

Good example. While filing for GC, what paper work does one file with USCIS explaining their intent to work permanently with an employer.

Exactly. I gave an example in another thread about somebody calling in sick for work and claiming to be in pain all over, etc. Then that same evening they go playing basketball for hours. Boss sees them and fires them for cause.

In such a case, they were not fired for playing basketball, which they had every right to do as it was after hours and not on company property. The firing was for lying earlier in the day; playing basketball was an event that exposed the lie. Similarly, leaving the employer too soon is potentially a problem not because changing jobs quickly is wrong, but because changing jobs quickly is an indicator that you lied earlier in the process.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

Good example. While filing for GC, what paper work does one file with USCIS explaining their intent to work permanently with an employer.

The I-485, or the DS-230 if doing CP.

 

[aaifor]

What is frustrating here is the time supposedly being "counted" is the months spent working AFTER submission of I-485 and/or after receiving GC. I feel this is not fair for people who got stuck in the labor certification backlogs as they too spent enough time working for that particular employer.

In other words, an employee who got stuck in labor backlogs for 2 years but less than a year in 485 has a lesser defense than say one who got stuck in name/background/etc checks for 2 years because the latter had already filed their I485.

Yes yes, I know, life is not fair so why should USCIS be.


Stoned!

Stoned, you answered your own conundrum. Life aint fair, never was and never will be. REMEBER , GC is not an award to you, and you can opt out and leave anytime during 485 process. The objective of an EB based GC is solely to aid the employer, the employees be damned. It is coincidental that employers used GC as a bait to keep you hooked, though AC21 reduced the hook a bit.

Countless times, on this forum people rant about the unfairness of this procedure. To what end? This is it. Take it or leave it.

Wishful thinking doesn't change laws.

As to whether your getting stuck in Backlogs and that fact should enable you to quit soon after getting GC, THIS is not a conviction that time spent in incarnation before trial should be counted against total time awarded to the judged.

I too was frustrated before i got my GC, but one day i did realise that whether i chose to stick with it or not is entirely my prerogative, no one forced this upon me. After that I stopped giving a damn, and one day got the GC when i was least expecting it. Strange, EB3, India june 2004 and got GC in July 2007

As to the question at hand, USCIS has not published any criteria as to how long one has to serve the filing employer. All evidence on this forum is just anecdotal at best and the mass of opinion reflects that 1 year is a reasonable amount of time, though none of those expressing the opinion is an immigration judge or USCIS official. So take it as you will.

 

[FunLover2000]

What is frustrating here is the time supposedly being "counted" is the months spent working AFTER submission of I-485 and/or after receiving GC. I feel this is not fair for people who got stuck in the labor certification backlogs as they too spent enough time working for that particular employer.

You don't even required to work for the GC sponsoring employer during the labor. Don't ask me where can I find such an employer, as probably none exists.

 

[jefkorn]

Rajiv's response to this perpetual question

Update on April 25,2008: Here's what I transcribed from the call [ http://www.immigration.com/conference/Apr_24_08_conf_call.zip ], the name (Apr_10_08_conf_call.mp3) of the unzipped mp3 file is misleading:

"
People have asked me this question at least once a day in last 20 years. In my view, and that has been made public and shown on our website. it used to be, let me take what is required by law is when you accept the GC job, your intention should be to stay indefinitely not permanently. Permanent doesn't exist, the word permanent is a misnomer. Permanent equals indefinite. So let say I accept my GC job today fully intending to stay here for ever or indefinitely but two days later I change my mind, is that legal,sure, but when I took the GC job at that stage, I had an indefinite intent to stay. Take another scenario, I take the job telling my employer that I will stay here for 25 years, is that permanent, no, you can lose your GC because there's an end in sight, ridiculous, right? but that's the law. but I don't think INS(now USCIS) should ever take that to the court but that's the kind of thing they are talking about. Third situation, let say I have already accepted another job and I have given my resignation and then my GC comes, is that accepting the job on a permanent basis, probably not but even there AC21 could protect you if the jobs are similar. So with the passage of AC21 Congress has made its intention known, Congress has said, "look guys, we don't like this idea of lengthy adjudications, we want people to have freedom to change jobs." I don't think INS is going to make a major issue of it. Is there a time period I can say, I can only say that when you accept the job when you get the I485 approval, you should have either have a similar job so that you can take advantage of AC21 if at the point of Citizenship this question is raised or through you must have an indefinite intent at the time of the job, two days later you change your mind, heck that' the way it is. You have said lot of things about sense of congress and all that. Don't worry about that. This is the way I see it. Key issue either use AC21 to a similar job and keep evidence of it in case this issue comes up or two take that job with an indefinite intent in mind. Don't don anything that's contrary to that indefinite intention. Remember the intention is a state of mind and it can be inferred from circumstance. If you already moved your luggage to Kentucky while your permanent job is in California, then you got a problem, or at least potentially a problem. I don't think INS is going to make an issue even then because like I said the intention of the congress has been made known, They don't like these lengthy adjudications.
"

 

[StonedAnt]

Stoned, you answered your own conundrum. Life aint fair, never was and never will be. REMEBER , GC is not an award to you, and you can opt out and leave anytime during 485 process. The objective of an EB based GC is solely to aid the employer, the employees be damned. It is coincidental that employers used GC as a bait to keep you hooked, though AC21 reduced the hook a bit.

Countless times, on this forum people rant about the unfairness of this procedure. To what end? This is it. Take it or leave it.

Wishful thinking doesn't change laws.

As to whether your getting stuck in Backlogs and that fact should enable you to quit soon after getting GC, THIS is not a conviction that time spent in incarnation before trial should be counted against total time awarded to the judged.

I too was frustrated before i got my GC, but one day i did realise that whether i chose to stick with it or not is entirely my prerogative, no one forced this upon me. After that I stopped giving a damn, and one day got the GC when i was least expecting it. Strange, EB3, India june 2004 and got GC in July 2007
.

Ok, first of all, you need to relax as I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of the system. These forums are for discussion and at times one ends up venting a little frustration, no harm in that. And congrats on the miraculous receipt of your GC.


Stoned!

 

[Jackolantern]

What is frustrating here is the time supposedly being "counted" is the months spent working AFTER submission of I-485 and/or after receiving GC. I feel this is not fair for people who got stuck in the labor certification backlogs as they too spent enough time working for that particular employer.

True, and AC21 itself is similarly unfair. You have to wait until 180 days after I-485 filing to safely change jobs, whether your labor took 2 months or 2 years to process.

But the whole US immigration process is built on unfairness. Look at how Cubans get a free pass to stay if they make it to land, but Haitians get sent back. Look at how the US immigration system uses nepotism, with non-core family-based immigration (i.e. beyond spouse and minor kids) greatly exceeding employment-based. Look at how it treats the spouses of green card holders ... if you are married before the green card is approved, your spouse gets a green card at almost the same time, but if you already have a green card then get married your spouse has to wait for years.

That's just the way it is. All we can do is try to change the system once we are citizens. Unfortunately, once people become citizens they usually forget about trying to do anything about it, because they don't have to go through those processes again. And born citizens naturally don't care, except for the subset who has relatives they want to bring in (hence the huge allocation of green cards for relatives). So US immigration will continue to be shitty for a long time.

 

[friendcool]

Ok, finally I belong to this board.

I filed 485 in 06, changed job under AC21 twice. Having been working for the current employer for 10 months now. I am planning to quit ASAP to start my own business.

I am thinking of lowering my performance so that the employer can fire me. I am wondering if that's the only way.

 

[nelsona]

10 months is fine.

 

[Jackolantern]

I filed 485 in 06, changed job under AC21 twice. Having been working for the current employer for 10 months now. I am planning to quit ASAP to start my own business.

I am thinking of lowering my performance so that the employer can fire me. I am wondering if that's the only way.

No need to do that. Is 10 months safe? I hope so, because I myself quit after 10 months post-GC. There is no guarantee it is safe, but you face much bigger risks with starting your own business. If you're not scared of starting your own business you shouldn't be scared of leaving the employer after 10 months.