Bring old passport, Don’t list traffic tickets: My N-400 interview story

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What makes the citations question confusing is the fact that it clearly states that no evidence and/or documentation needs to be submitted for non-DUI/DWI tickets under $500, yet a sizeable portion of IOs continue to consistently demand documentation for ALL tickets, be it DWI or a "no seatbelt", $5 or $500. If M-476 clearly states in plain English that no documentation needs to be submitted for minor traffic violations, why are applicants constantly receiving continuance letters at interviews??? The USCIS must establish a uniform policy regarding traffic violations, plain and simple.

Also, even the oath letter clearly states that traffic tickets must be disclosed. The text of the question is something along the lines of "Since your first interview, have you been arrested, detained, fined or cited, including traffic tickets?" Again, we are beating a dead horse that has already been beaten more than necessary, but why is it so difficult to make the same distinction on the N-400?
 
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I agree with the inconsistency between what the M-476 states and how some USCIS adjudicators operate. However look at the flip side. Some N-400 applicants assume that "no documentation needed" means that they do not even have to "disclose" the citation.
Education is needed on both sides of the table.

What makes the citations question confusing is the fact that it clearly states that no evidence and/or documentation needs to be submitted for non-DUI/DWI tickets under $500, yet a sizeable portion of IOs continue to consistently demand documentation for ALL tickets, be it DWI or a "no seatbelt", $5 or $500. If M-476 clearly states in plain English that no documentation needs to be submitted for minor traffic violations, why are applicants constantly receiving continuance letters at interviews???
 
You already believe that the interpretation is correct that's why you are downplaying the first and second choice. But that is just your choice. For most the interpretation is also clear that since they DO NOT KNOW that traffic tickets are citations they are not required to report it. You may call it dumb behavior but this is regular normal behavior. In this country ignorance is the way of life. Have you ever heard any colleague or friend come to you and say "oh you know what, I was cited by police yesterday for over speeding". Everybody talks of getting tickets. Most people just sign check or pay online and feel bad for a few days and then move on. Many dont even keep a copy of ticket even though it says to do so. In my case I got a ticket for speeding 10 years back for which all records were removed in DMV. Nobody has any record of it. Luckily I had copy of disposition because I went to the court and paid there and got a receipt. Most people don't do that. USCIS is aware of this practical reality and so dont make this an issue. Everybody who reads instructions reads about arrest and $500 fine and citations etc and assume that since traffic tickets are none of those they cannot and should not be reported. You may not agree but this is what overwhelming majority of people interpret. Based on this USCIS simply cannot incarcerate millions of already naturalized citizens. Besides USCIS officials clearly mention during oath to not raise traffic tickets as an issue. At least in Brooklyn Oath ceremony that is how it is. I'm not sure how other DOs interpret it but since every DO works differently there may be a different interpretation in your DO.

Please re-read what I said. I am not downplaying the first and second choices. Rather I said I am in voting for these.

I am not 'already believing' that any interpretation is correct before trying to understand it. Everyone has some opinion. You cannot just accuse someone of being biased just because they provide an opinion after doing analysis. Likewise I could also say that you already believe that the third choice is true, and so you don't see the first two.

For those people who do not know that tickets are citations, it's their ignorance as you claim. They base their interpretation on a wrong understanding! You seem to agree that they are wrong, don't you?

You have placed a lot of emphasis on people's ignorance. If it's true that most people are ignorant, that makes their interpretation plain wrong. Not because I said so, but because you yourself have termed most people as ignorant.

Granted, USCIS rules can be complex in many places, but this particular item of traffic tickets is not confusing at all. We are now down to the level where we are just interpreting plain English.

People who do not mention traffic tickets seem to fall under these categories:

1. Those who don't know that a ticket is a citation, per your observation. But that's their ignorance as you point out. => No confusion, just ignorance.
2. People who don't want their N-400 to attract extra attention or to get complex. => Willful misrepresentation.
3. People who just go by what other people said/did because they themselves are not too paperwork savvy. => Clueless/confused people.
4. People who interpret 'no supporting documentation needs to be submitted for fines under $500' to mean that tickets should not be even mentioned on the N-400. => Once again, no offense, but these people need a primer in official paperwork and English interpretation.

Usually, when you get a ticket, a trooper pulls you over and stops you. So, how should an N-400 applicant with a traffic ticket respond to the below question on N-400?

"Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"

If they have been detained(stopped) for ANY reason, they MUST say "YES". If anyone interprets the above question to exclude traffic tickets, they need an urgent course in English. Once again, no offense to anyone. And once they answer "YES", they need to provide a brief note in the table on the N-400 form. A filled-out table does NOT count as 'supporting documentation'. Supporting documentation will be additional attachments, not to be confused with continuation sheets that one may use for lack of space. A fine in excess of $ 500 or a DUI requires additional documents to be submitted along with the N-400.

People are free to do what they choose too, as they have already been doing.
 
Being detained by a police officer means being held in police custody without charges being filed (i.e., Guantanamo detainees). Being pulled over for running a stop sign (or speeding, making an illegal turn, etc.) does not equate to being detained.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detain


Held in 'police custody' is just given as an example in the above link. It is not the sole meaning of 'detain'. You are equating 'detained' to 'being held in police custody'. This is how interpretations drift far, far away from their intended meaning. 'Pulled over' is just a common language expression to denote being stopped by a police officer. Looking at it in your way, for those few minutes you are in fact in their 'custody/control', aren't you even though you are not inside a police station?

Look at #2 and #3 in the same link. No reference to police there. The word detain does not have an in-built police component. Law enforcement happens to use the word detain, but that does not mean the word applied to police machinery exclusively.

Detain is even used in sentences like, "I got detained at the board meeting/party/whetever." That does not mean that the police arrested the person without filing charges at the meeting/party.
 
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Held in 'police custody' is just given as an example in the above link. It is not the sole meaning of 'detain'. You are equating 'detained' to 'being held in police custody'. This is how interpretations drift far, far away from their intended meaning. 'Pulled over' is just a common language expression to denote being stopped by a police officer.

Look at #2 and #3 in the same link. No reference to police there. The word detain does not have an in-built police component. Law enforcement happens to use the word detain, but that does not mean the word applied to police machinery exclusively.

Detain is even used in sentences like, "I got detained at the board meeting/party/whetever." That does not mean that the police arrested the person without filing charges at the meeting/party.

By the same token, if a naturalization applicant witnesses a mugging and is asked to give a witness statement by a police officer, s/he is being detained and must disclose this on his/her N-400. I highly doubt that's the case.

Since the N-400 asks if an applicant has ever been detained by a law enforcement official, "being held without charges filed" is EXACTLY what the N-400 is referring to.
 
By the same token, if a naturalization applicant witnesses a mugging and is asked to give a witness statement by a police officer, s/he is being detained and must disclose this on his/her N-400. I highly doubt that's the case.

Since the N-400 asks if an applicant has ever been detained by a law enforcement official, "being held without charges filed" is EXACTLY what the N-400 is referring to.


Yes, and in the above case, the applicant should mention this incident. Such an incident qualifies as "being held without charges filed for ANY reason". Therefore it needs to be mentioned, however minor or frivolous it may seem.

These questions are asked to gather a person's complete history as much as possible. What if a person has 10 such incidents where they were either called as witnesses or had other 'minor' brushes with the law with no charges filed? That would indicate a certain pattern about the person (it could be sheer chance or just that person's bad luck), but which is important for authorities to know.

The witness example you gave could be considered by some taking things too far.

However, my primary point was specifically in relation to traffic tickets which also involve a financial transaction (fine) and really should be mentioned.
 
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Yes, and in the above case, the applicant should mention this incident. Such an incident qualifies as "being held without charges filed for ANY reason". Therefore it needs to be mentioned, however minor or frivolous it may seem.

These questions are asked to gather a person's complete history as much as possible. What if a person has 10 such incidents where they were either called as witnesses or had other 'minor' brushes with the law with no charges filed? That would indicate a certain pattern about the person (it could be sheer chance or just that person's bad luck), but which is important for authorities to know.

If the applicant needs to mention having to give a witness statement, then the applicant also needs to mention every time s/he travelled abroad and was questioned by an immigration and customs officers at the airport. Same goes for every time you travel by air anywhere in the world (domestic or international) and are screened by the FAA staff. Also, every time a police officer assigned to control traffic at a heavily travelled intersection stopped the applicant's vehicle so that another vehicle travelling on the perpendicular street may cross, that needs to be disclosed also.

According to this site, the legal definition of detain is equivalent to the legal definition of imprison: http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/CB1AFE18-2518-4043-B8AB6A852BDABCB8/alpha/D/
 
If the applicant needs to mention having to give a witness statement, then the applicant also needs to mention every time s/he travelled abroad and was questioned by an immigration and customs officers at the airport. Same goes for every time you travel by air anywhere in the world (domestic or international) and are screened by the FAA staff. Also, every time a police officer assigned to control traffic at a heavily travelled intersection stopped the applicant's vehicle so that another vehicle travelling on the perpendicular street may cross, that needs to be disclosed also.

According to this site, the legal definition of detain is equivalent to the legal definition of imprison: http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/CB1AFE18-2518-4043-B8AB6A852BDABCB8/alpha/D/

My primary point in my initial post was specifically in relation to traffic tickets which also involve a financial transaction (fine) and these should be mentioned on the N-400.

When you get a ticket, you are temporarily stopped from doing what you were doing. At the airports, you are following a set of pre-defined security and immigration procedures. No surprises there. The two don't equate.
 
My primary point in my initial post was specifically in relation to traffic tickets which also involve a financial transaction (fine) and these should be mentioned on the N-400.

When you get a ticket, you are temporarily stopped from doing what you were doing. At the airports, you are following a set of pre-defined security and immigration procedures. No surprises there. The two don't equate.

Believe it or not, if you are stopped by a police officer over a traffic violation, you are free to go once they have your driver license.
 
Your whole argument is based on the assumption that people know or must know that tickets are citations. Reality is that people dont. That is a fact which you can yourself determine by talking to averga efolks on the streets, office etc

What made you to think that my whole argument is based on the "assumption" that applicants should know that traffic tickets are citations??? I'm the last person you should talk about assumption in context to immigration experience dealing with people. Just you to know, I've been involved in 3 (three) seperate immigration websites out there since 2002 (6 yrs) and I meet uncounted people on a daily basis on a Catholic Charity Church in a community where I voluntarily help people....So obviously, I know how many people know...in reality...as to whether traffic tickets are citations or not...at least those who have been known by me. Let alone those who I dealt with while practicing immigration laws in the past...

Again, it's the responsibility of applicants to be clear and to find out the right answer on anything that seems unclear to them especially filing an application with govt. like they do by asking nonstop questions on all kind of matters on here and other websits... If they would choose to being ignorant and believing in what they believe...and choose not to ask for second opinion then it's their fault and not anyone else.

Do you think it's okay and justified and excuse them if they don't know that a traffic ticket is a citation? In my opinion, citation meaning in English alone should tell them what citation stands for if they even know a simple word of English. And why "innocense" is being playing out to justify their ignorance and wrong thinking of citation meaning? With the same analogy of being naive or innocent then a person can rightfully write no to the question on the application that asks if applicant has ever been charged of a crime if his/her case dismissed or sealed... It's because that person didn't know and "innocently" thought that his/her case being dismissed/sealed means s/he was never been charged for the crime. Do you think this person's answer is correct then?? You might try to get around with this by giving all kind of answers but fact remains the same that people should try to find out the answer to any question that they are not clear especially at the time of petitioning to govt. Their innocense and naivity cannot be used an excuse and a defense for the wrongdoing or for the wrong answer/thinking.

Bottom line is that all these talk have nothing to do with following a simple text in English language that states all citations must be reported...People are making all kinds of statements here to justify their situation to fit right...like instructions are confusing...IO laughed and said it should not be reported...Immigration officers over the phone and immigration attorneys said don't worry about disclosing traffic tickets...nobody's citizenship has been revoked so far on this issue nor they have been deported....immigration officers told to other people at interview and at oath that traffic tickets should not be disclosed...traffic tickets are not a problem at all...people laughed when asked if it should be disclosed or not...etc...etc...etc...but what people don't seem to understand is that they should not be the judge and jury based upon on the above said statements; rather they should follow the instructions as it's written...Instructions are not confusing at all if one can have the ability to comprehend simple English. Nowhere on the instructions it states that citations should not be disclosed...instructions do not also state that some traffic tickets can be disclosed and some don't...

The truth is- people have made this issue "confusing" and paranoid by themselves to fit themselves in a position sitting because they didn't/don't want their application to be delayed or denied. This is the truth; otherwise they had not talked about what others say and anything else than had just followed the instructions which are not confusing at all.
 
I've never been stopped - no speeding tickets. Always got tickets through the mail or on my window.
 
Believe it or not, if you are stopped by a police officer over a traffic violation, you are free to go once they have your driver license.


That's why I said 'temporarily stopped'. Still, the fact remains that you had to stop for some period of time, answer the officer's questions, hand over your license and get a $$ fine that you end up paying.
 
I've never been stopped - no speeding tickets. Always got tickets through the mail or on my window.

Yep. I have talked about this with people in the past, and also remember some posts on here on this issue. People used to get that in NJ (and maybe elsewhere too) from secret cameras catching their license plates, or from highway toll receipt times. In this particular scenario you were not stopped/detained by police officer, rather you got your traffic or parking tickets in the mail. Accordingly, you can apply the N-400 instructions and see how they apply in your case.
 
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