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Birth certificate has a wrong birth place

masematn

Registered Users (C)
Hi friends,

maybe somebody knows about possible problems/solutions in a situation, when a person (myself) was born in one place (Soviet Union then, Ukraine now), but his birth certificate states that he was born in Russia? (Soviet rules allowed to enter the place of registration as a place of birth, if parents or whoever filed within 30 days from the birth date of a child. I was brought to Russia at the age of 2 weeks, and got the certificate there, not in Ukraine.) I do have an official paper (form) from the hospital, indicating date, place, my name, my parent's name, and so on. Thanks for any insights.

Best,
_________________________________
04/23/08 - received a letter from KCC
 
What would you do if this birth cert is burnt or gets lost? Won't you do another to suit the current political birth place?
 
What would you do if this birth cert is burnt or gets lost? Won't you do another to suit the current political birth place?

I'll sure do another, and it will be based on the records, and have the same wrong place. I tried to simply correct it some ten years ago, but the officials couldn't do anything, even for money :)
 
IF the town on the birth certificate is the correct one, then you'll be fine, because country borders have changed and for the lottery today's country borders count. However, if the town is wrong, you might be in trouble.
 
Hi friends,

maybe somebody knows about possible problems/solutions in a situation, when a person (myself) was born in one place (Soviet Union then, Ukraine now), but his birth certificate states that he was born in Russia? (Soviet rules allowed to enter the place of registration as a place of birth, if parents or whoever filed within 30 days from the birth date of a child. I was brought to Russia at the age of 2 weeks, and got the certificate there, not in Ukraine.) I do have an official paper (form) from the hospital, indicating date, place, my name, my parent's name, and so on. Thanks for any insights.

Best,
_________________________________
04/23/08 - received a letter from KCC


I personally don't think this should be a problem .The reason being that the Consulate are aware of the political divisions inherent within the current Russia and the erstwhile soviet Union(USSR).To me much will depend on how bold you explain yourself when asked any questions in relation to this at the interview.Even better if you prsent those proofs, ie official paper from the hospital etc. Meanwhile if there is a way of securing a new BC, i will advise you to that in order to be on the safer side.This is just a piece of advise from a personal point of view .I do hope you find some useful information from it.
Thanks.
 
I personally don't think this should be a problem .The reason being that the Consulate are aware of the political divisions inherent within the current Russia and the erstwhile soviet Union(USSR).To me much will depend on how bold you explain yourself when asked any questions in relation to this at the interview.Even better if you prsent those proofs, ie official paper from the hospital etc. Meanwhile if there is a way of securing a new BC, i will advise you to that in order to be on the safer side.This is just a piece of advise from a personal point of view .I do hope you find some useful information from it.
Thanks.

Thanks, abeku66! My main concern is, however, NOT the interview - I'm positive that I can explain the situation. It is the processing of the application that I am afraid of. What if THEY see my BC with a place, not eligible for participation in the lottery, and that's it - no interviews, no nothing?
 
the consular officer will see your BC during the interview.

LucyMO, are you saying that no crucial decisions about eligibility are made before the interview? If it is really so, then I am on the safe side. Thanks for good news.
 
if you put down a wrong country of eligibility or birth in your DV lottery application and later corrected it in forms DS-230, DS-122 - yes, the determination can be done at KCC level. Everything else - the consular officer makes that determination.

You are not on a safer side. You have a great chance of paying for visas and getting a denial anyway. That results in losing a lot of money.

www.govorimpro.us/forum
 
if you put down a wrong country of eligibility or birth in your DV lottery application and later corrected it in forms DS-230, DS-122 - yes, the determination can be done at KCC level. Everything else - the consular officer makes that determination.

Now, I used the _real_ birthplace (Ukraine) in my e-application, and I am going to use it in DS forms as well. The problem is that my BC has another birthplace (Russia).

Thanks for a useful link!
 
http://www.murthy.com/485faq.html#6


Question 6. I don't have a birth certificate or I do have one but my name is not on it, is misspelled, etc. TOP

Documentation of birth must be submitted. A birth certificate is preferred. If it is not available, the applicant may submit notarized affidavits from his/her parents. If the applicant cannot obtain affidavits from his/her parents, the applicant may submit affidavits from other relatives who are older than the applicant and were at least 10 years old at the time of his/her birth. The affidavits must include the individual's name, address, date of birth, relationship to the applicant, and how the person knows when the applicant was born. The affidavits must also include the applicant's name, date and place of birth, and the names of both of the parents. Preferably, these relatives cannot obtain any immigration benefit from the adjustment applicant. Examples are grandparents, aunts and uncles.

In general, if a birth certificate is not available, one should obtain: (a) a certificate of non-availability from the government agency that would have issued the birth certificate if one were available, and (b) two affidavits as described above. Either instead of the non-availability certificate, or in addition, the applicant can submit any other evidence of his/her date of birth, such as a school certificate, religious certificate, certificate from the hospital or midwife, etc. However, a letter from the consulate or a date of birth certificate declaration based upon passport records would not generally be acceptable. If the birth certificate was registered late, the client should provide at least one affidavit as described above.

Failure to submit proper proof of birth will generally result in the USCIS issuing a request for evidence (RFE) for the birth certificate and or the required affidavits.

So, when you get your Ukrainian birth certificate, if will be registered late. This is exactly your case.
 
http://www.murthy.com/485faq.html#6 [...] This is exactly your case.
Thank you for the link. Yes, I know all the cons of a BC dated this year (in the eyes of CIS folks). What can I say? I have a notarized affidavit from my mother, and original hospital paperwork. Hope it will work. Meanwhile my parents are acting on my behalf (with the power of attorney) in Russia. It may take a good chunk of time, though...
 
They should be acting in Ukraine...
And they original paperwork from the hospital might need to be surrended in order to get the birth certificate.
 
They should be acting in Ukraine...
That would be too much of an effort for my parents. After all, the whole lottery-based GC issue is not such a big deal. Of course, Ukrainian BC looks better, but since it was legal to register kids in the place of their parents' residence, that should not be a problem. It is the place of birth, not the place of registration which is relevant.

And they original paperwork from the hospital might need to be surrended in order to get the birth certificate.
That is complicated, and I do not have any clear understanding: on the one hand, I do remember leaving them the original paper from the hospital for my child, on the other, if they request the originals to be surrendered then how comes that I have my papers on my desk now? Doesn't it mean that they were not requested some forty years ago? Still, I think I'll better have them on me at the interview. But who knows? Time will show :)
 
That is complicated, and I do not have any clear understanding: on the one hand, I do remember leaving them the original paper from the hospital for my child, on the other, if they request the originals to be surrendered then how comes that I have my papers on my desk now? Doesn't it mean that they were not requested some forty years ago? Still, I think I'll better have them on me at the interview. But who knows? Time will show :)
The BC was obtained under an exception. Not at the place of actual birth. I guess that is why the real place of birth was irrelevant for the procedure and that is why your parents did not have to surrended the hospital paperwork (in order still to be able to get real ukrainian-issued BC).

That would be too much of an effort for my parents. After all, the whole lottery-based GC issue is not such a big deal. Of course, Ukrainian BC looks better, but since it was legal to register kids in the place of their parents' residence, that should not be a problem. It is the place of birth, not the place of registration which is relevant.
Most likely without requesting ukrainian-issued BC you are completely forfeiting your chances to benefit from DV-2008 program. It is not just better, it is a must for you. Russian-issued BC confirming your birth outside of Russia looks to be a complete waste of efforts.
It has the same meaning as Russian-issued birth certificate confirming your birth in the US for the purpose of proving US citizenship. If acceptable by US law, it would give Russia legal authority to produce 130 mln. US citizens and overthrow US government by means of democratice elections.

Russian-issued BC could confirm your birth in another country only in case the place of your actual birth belonged to Russia at the time of your birth (when the original BC was issued), but now belongs to that other country.

After all, the whole lottery-based GC issue is not such a big deal.
Well, if it does not mean anything to you, it is not a big deal to forfeit your chances for AOS.
 
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The BC was obtained under an exception.
Nope, there was no exception. We discussed this question already, and I read the thread about Leningrad-Nikolaev which you kindly pointed at. You posted the link to the Russian Law of 1969. It was still valid when I was born. So what are the problems? "Registration is done either at the place of birth or at the place of residence of the parents or one of the parents."

Most likely without requesting ukrainian-issued BC you are completely forfeiting your chances to benefit from DV-2008 program. It is not just better, it is a must for you. Russian-issued BC confirming your birth outside of Russia looks to be a complete waste of efforts.
What makes you think so?

It has the same meaning as Russian-issued birth certificate confirming your birth in the US for the purpose of proving US citizenship.
No, it is not the same. Russia and US are two sovereign states, whereas Russia and Ukraine were parts (republics) of the same state. In addition, US vital records procedures also differ: I am not sure, but it seems that most of the states (if not all of them) require that the certificate must be filed with the clerk of the municipality in which the birth occurred. In the USSR it was not required at the time of my birth.

Russian-issued BC could confirm your birth in another country only in case the place of your actual birth belonged to Russia at the time of your birth (when the original BC was issued), but now belongs to that other country.
Yes, in a certain sense it is my case. The place of my birth and the place of my registration belonged to the same country , but now these places belong to different countries.
 
Nope, there was no exception. We discussed this question already, and I read the thread about Leningrad-Nikolaev which you kindly pointed at. You posted the link to the Russian Law of 1969. It was still valid when I was born. So what are the problems? "Registration is done either at the place of birth or at the place of residence of the parents or one of the parents."
That is exactly what the exception means. Regularly BC states the real place of birth.
What makes you think so?
Because that is outside of jurisdiction of Russia to state somebody was born in Ukraine. What is within jurisdiction of Russia, however, is to register the birth in Russia, wherever else the birth occurred. However, this type of birth certificate is not a proof of place of birth (if it states the birth is outside of Russia), it is only a proof of place of registration.

No, it is not the same. Russia and US are two sovereign states, whereas Russia and Ukraine were parts (republics) of the same state. In addition, US vital records procedures also differ: I am not sure, but it seems that most of the states (if not all of them) require that the certificate must be filed with the clerk of the municipality in which the birth occurred. In the USSR it was not required at the time of my birth.
That is exactly the case. Russia and Ukraine were parts of the same country, but did not have jurisdiction one over another. Family codes of Russia and Ukraine were separate during the Soviet Union times. And the family code defined the procedure for issuing birth certificate. It is like if you were born in New York state, but have a birth certificate issued in Massachusetts stating you were born in New York (states of Massachusetts and New York also have independent family codes). The certificate is void because of lack of jurisdiction.

Anyway, that is up to you whether you want to immigrate to US or not based on DV-2008 program. Russia will be included during DV-2010

Yes, in a certain sense it is my case. The place of my birth and the place of my registration belonged to the same country , but now these places belong to different countries.
That is the only thing different. What, however, does matter, is not that that was the same country, but that was a wrong jurisdiction. What makes a country different from another country - also is a jurisdiction, on the federal level. Here those questions were governed on state level, below federal level. That makes it separate jurisdiction, no different from different countries.
That kind of certificate worked within USSR only. I am not even sure it really was a proof of place of birth in the Soviet Union. US is a separate jurisdiction, and will consider this BC void.

And do not think the officer does not realize what the situation is. Just because USSR also had two levels of jurisdiction, the same as US have, he will assume the situation similar to US as if, as I said, you had a Massachusetts-issued birth certificate stating you were born in New York. Clearly Massachusetts lacks jurisdiction to state that.
No, it is not the same. Russia and US are two sovereign states, whereas Russia and Ukraine were parts (republics) of the same state.
It is the same. The article you are referring to
Регистрация рождения производится в органах записи актов гражданского состояния по месту рождения детей либо по месту жительства родителей или одного из них
does not distinguish between whether you were born in the same country, or in a different one. Even if you were born in the US, you could still register your birth in Russia at the place of your parent's residence. That way, as I said, Russia could easily produce 130 mln. US citizens, if accepted by US, by stating they all were born in US, but their birth was registered in Russia. That is clearly unacceptable by US.
 
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Masematn, I don't know enough about the ex-USSR to help you, but it seems that you have a serious problem on your hands with your birth certificate. I didn't follow all the details of what raevsky said, but it is a serious problem.

Moreover, if you apply for AOS and use your AOS EAD or AOS Advance Parole, and then your AOS is denied, you will have lost your student status as well. You will have to leave the United States.

Even if you don't use your AOS EAD or AOS Advance Parole, just the fact that you have applied for AOS shows clear immigrant intent. I guess your student status will not be automatically canceled. But it's likely to make it difficult for you to receive further student visa benefits - a new student visa, OPT, etc.

You have a wife and children. Don't be a cowboy (no offense intended). Talk to a good lawyer. Make sure your evidence of eligibility is crystal clear.
 
Masematn, I don't know enough about the ex-USSR to help you, but it seems that you have a serious problem on your hands with your birth certificate.
Don't worry, buddy, it's ok, it's just our internal ex-ussr nostalgic discussions... and I am not sure that this forum is a proper place for them, especially when quotations in Russian start to appear.

Don't be a cowboy (no offense intended).
From what time the good ol' word "cowboy" is an offense? Who really cares what them Yankees think about the South and the Southerners? :D
 
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