AR-11 for son on 3 month summer job

Jharkhandi said:
See the idea behind AR-11 is to track aliens. See AR-11, which states:

The data used by the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Service for statistical and record purposes and may be furnished to federal, state, local and foreign law enforcement officials. Failure to report is punishable by fine or imprisonment and/or deportation.

I don't think the government wants to know your whereabouts on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. All that they need is to have accurate residential addresses of aliens so that they can be contacted in case there is any issue with any immigration benefits or if any criminal cases are reported involving aliens.
 
nkm-oct23 said:
I don't think the government wants to know your whereabouts on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. All that they need is to have accurate residential addresses of aliens so that they can be contacted in case there is any issue with any immigration benefits or if any criminal cases are reported involving aliens.
You are mistaken nkm.

Let me quote my earlier two posts:

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United States v. Estrada-Trochez, 66 F.3d 733 (5th Cir. 1995), in which that court held that notice sent to the alien's last known address satisfied due process, even though the alien argued that the INS could have easily notified his family. Id. at 736. As the Fifth Circuit recognized, it is the alien's statutory duty to notify the government of each change of address within ten days of the date of that change. 8 U.S.C. § 1305(a). The Fifth Circuit concluded: the "ultimate fault lies with the Appellant for [her] failure to comply with a law that is essential to the administration of the INS." Estrada-Trochez, 66 F.3d at 736.
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Think about this:

Filling AR-11 and later finding it was not needed, will not hurt you by any means. Not filling and find later that it was needed, will surely hurt you.
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Rest I will leave upto you gentlemen, you may also like to re-read previous posts too, law has been quoted, lawsuits shown and form contents discussed(including that it is for PRs). Read law, Murthy's interpretation is based on same - you will also interpret it same way.

It is always good to file AR-11, when you are going out, subletting, you are adult, rather then save 15 min of time - rest your wish.
 
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Jharkhandi said:
You are mistaken nkm.

Let me quote my earlier two posts:

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United States v. Estrada-Trochez, 66 F.3d 733 (5th Cir. 1995), in which that court held that notice sent to the alien's last known address satisfied due process, even though the alien argued that the INS could have easily notified his family. Id. at 736. As the Fifth Circuit recognized, it is the alien's statutory duty to notify the government of each change of address within ten days of the date of that change. 8 U.S.C. § 1305(a). The Fifth Circuit concluded: the "ultimate fault lies with the Appellant for [her] failure to comply with a law that is essential to the administration of the INS." Estrada-Trochez, 66 F.3d at 736.
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****************************************************************

Think about this:

Filling AR-11 and later finding it was not needed, will not hurt you by any means. Not filling and find later that it was needed, will surely hurt you.
****************************************************************

Rest I will leave upto you gentlemen, you may also like to re-read previous posts too.

It is always good to file AR-11, when you are going out, subletting, you are adult, rather then save 15 min of time - rest your wish.

The case you cite involves a person who was deported but claimed did not receive notice of deporation because he/she moved to another address. It is not a case of failure to report temporary changes in address, if the person had temporarily moved out but returned subsequently to her residence, he/she would have seen the notice. The person failed to file AR-11 WHEN IT WAS REQUIRED. I don't see how that conflicts with what I said in my post.
 
nkm-oct23 said:
The case you cite involves a person who was deported but claimed did not receive notice of deporation because he/she moved to another address. It is not a case of failure to report temporary changes in address, if the person had temporarily moved out but returned subsequently to her residence, he/she would have seen the notice. The person failed to file AR-11 WHEN IT WAS REQUIRED. I don't see how that conflicts with what I said in my post.
See nkm - that is the point. We cannot decide when it is needed, that is why Murthy's answer becomes more relevant - any temp change. even with a c/o change. However, I see where you are coming from. Points can be debatable from that angle about lawsuit. But the bottomline is:

Filling AR-11 and later finding it was not needed, will not hurt you by any means. Not filling and find later that it was needed, will surely hurt you.

You may also like to check the consequences:

http://www.hispanicheritage.com/law/immigrantsreport_08_02.htm
 
Jharkhandi said:
See nkm - that is the point. We cannot decide when it is needed, that is why Murthy's answer becomes more relevant - any temp change. even with a c/o change. However, I see where you are coming from. Points can be debatable from that angle about lawsuit. But the bottomline is:

Filling AR-11 and later finding it was not needed, will not hurt you by any means. Not filling and find later that it was needed, will surely hurt you.

You may also like to check the consequences:

http://www.hispanicheritage.com/law/immigrantsreport_08_02.htm

I agree that filing AR-11 takes only 10 minutes of one's time and possibly a few dollars in postage. Doing things that do not hurt you was not the issue here, issue here was whether is is required by law. The law is not explicitly clear in this regard but using common sense and looking at the circumstances I will still say that the original poster does not need to file AR-11. We live in a very progressive democratic and open society where goverment does not exist just to oppress it's citizens. US is certainly not North Korea or Stalin's Soviet Union.
I am no great fan of Attorney M****y and in this case do not agree with her advise.
 
nkm-oct23 said:
I agree that filing AR-11 takes only 10 minutes of one's time and possibly a few dollars in postage. Doing things that do not hurt you was not the issue here, issue here was whether is is required by law. The law is not explicitly clear in this regard but using common sense and looking at the circumstances I will still say that the original poster does not need to file AR-11. We live in a very progressive democratic and open society where goverment does not exist just to oppress it's citizens. US is certainly not North Korea or Stalin's Soviet Union.
I am no great fan of Attorney M****y and in this case do not agree with her advise.
nkm,

See it is post 9/11 time that forces you to do it. Agreed it is not N Korea Or Stalin's Russia, would you like to take a chance, if you are in question today?

Upstate_NY has already given his verdit I belv. After this discussion and fact finding no I would not! I don't know about others but I had to undergo 2.5 hours of security check in Atlanta airport, GA, when I was there to catch a connecting flight(had to go thru another flight). All checks 3 times by some special squad. I have been thru security checks before and after that too, but that was too much to stand. When I asked for reason - I was told - you are 6 ft plus and strong built. Apologies etc... followed later, which meant nothing - it was just courteous way of being rude! All for no fault of mine. Now this is address change is a rule - I can live without following it or I can live peacefully if I do it - I prefer second. Like driving without DL or with DL - I would prefer second.

AR-11 has been there for 50 years, no one used to fill it before 9/11. Most of the people were almost taken by surprise to hear about it.

http://www.hake.com/pc/911/911.htm
 
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Jharkhandi said:
nkm,

See it is post 9/11 time that forces you to do it. Agreed it is not N Korea Or Stalin's Russia, would you like to take a chance, if you are in question today?

AR-11 has been there for 50 years, no one used to fill it before 9/11. Most of the people were almost taken by surprise to hear about it.

http://www.hake.com/pc/911/911.htm

If I were in exactly the same situation as the original poster I would not file AR-11. In my mind I am clear that I do not require to file it and I will continue to hold that position. We as residents are required to follow the letter and spirit of the law. Filing AR-11 in this specific case is neither in the letter nor the spirit of the law that requires it.
 
nkm-oct23 said:
If I were in exactly the same situation as the original poster I would not file AR-11. In my mind I am clear that I do not require to file it and I will continue to hold that position. We as residents are required to follow the letter and spirit of the law. Filing AR-11 in this specific case is neither in the letter nor the spirit of the law that requires it.
That is your call. Respect your thinking too.
 
Imho

In my opinion, even temporary changes in address (except for vacations) would have to be reported.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Aditya. My regards to all.
 
I would not want to take a chance

JoeF said:
I yield to that, of course.
But, in this case, it is not even a move. My understanding is that the person continues to keep his original address. The person just gets another address in addition to the original address.
So, no move, no AR-11 necessary, as far as I understand it.


Unless CIS indicates otherwise in writing, I would stick to the conservative approach. Filing is easy.
 
So even the final comments of a lawyer are not good enough for JoeF

JoeF said:
I yield to that, of course.
But, in this case, it is not even a move. My understanding is that the person continues to keep his original address. The person just gets another address in addition to the original address.
So, no move, no AR-11 necessary, as far as I understand it.

It's amazing. JoeF claims not to be a lawyer and to rely on the advice of a lawyer, but he continues to challenge the opinion of one when it presented to him. Now who is being a troll, ney, a stubborn mule?

Your killfile, JoeF, is not too effective if you keep coming back with your own asinine comments. As for the "protecting your brethren" remark, was that some sort of racist remark on your part? I have no relationship to any other poster on this forum.

You continue to be the one arguing with Mr Rajiv Khanna, when he claims that it is better to be safe and file the AR-11 anyway. Personally, I will take his opinion over yours any day. Hopefully, other members of this forum are smart enough to do the same....
 
I guess you can look at it from more than one angle. Do as you please. It certainly can't hurt to file but it may not be necessary.
 
ysolong said:
I guess you can look at it from more than one angle. Do as you please. It certainly can't hurt to file but it may not be necessary.
Always compare Under-Line signature, professional of the area is authentic. There should'nt be any doubt, Mr. Rajiv opinion is Totally Legal.
 
On a lighter note

ysolong said:
I guess you can look at it from more than one angle. Do as you please. It certainly can't hurt to file but it may not be necessary.


Friends I smell some foul here :rolleyes:
I guess ysolong and JoeF are related to each other or they are friends.Their mental processes seem so much alike. :p What do you say ??
 
When I posted the question I did not realize the heated discussion it will produce. After reading let me state a few more facts-

1.He is not changing address for any of the following, as he will be coming home once every week at least, since we are so close-by:
DMV
bank
credit card issuer
cable provider
phone provider
utilities provider
local post office

2. But he will be paying the rent through a check to the landlord for 3 months for the room- which his friend is not using for 3 months as the friend is going home and coming back when the college starts again.

3. If he files AR-11 now, he will have to file it again after 3 months when he moves back to his dorm.

4. Till now his permanant address at the University is our home address, should he change his address with them too? Does he need to change his address with Bank, Credit card, post office if he files AR- 11 now? And what happens after 3 months? And every year after that.

5. If he files AR-11 now, he will have to fill lots of them every year in coming years!!!

Still confused........................
 
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operations said:
In my opinion, even temporary changes in address (except for vacations) would have to be reported.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Aditya. My regards to all.

Thanks a lot Rajiv for your expert opinion. It has always been a pleasure to read all your posts.
 
Why the confusion?-Trust Rajiv Khanna!!

Su_Gupta said:
When I posted the question I did not realize the heated discussion it will produce.
Ignore the heated discussion-concentrate on what the Immigration Attorney Rajiv Khanna has to say.For more information refer to links included in this post by one of the members.

After reading let me state a few more facts-

1.He is not changing address for any of the following, as he will be coming home once every week at least, since we are so close-by:
DMV
bank
credit card issuer
cable provider
phone provider
utilities provider
local post office
You may like to talk to your DMV, Bank, Credit Card Issuer, Cable Provider or any other service that is in his name. See what they have to say.Their answer will be valid only for their service and dont take it as a general measure for all the services.

2. But he will be paying the rent through a check to the landlord for 3 months for the room- which his friend is not using for 3 months as the friend is going home and coming back when the college starts again.
Refer to Rajiv's second post - one should fill AR-11, except for vacations.If you are not clear where Rajiv Khanna has written-please note he writes under the username 'Operations'.There are 2 posts by him in this thread.

3. If he files AR-11 now, he will have to file it again after 3 months when he moves back to his dorm.
YES , He may have to do that.I am sure you can afford a small hassle of filing the form every now and then rather than a major hassle from the CIS!

4. Till now his permanant address at the University is our home address, should he change his address with them too? Does he need to change his address with Bank, Credit card, post office if he files AR- 11 now? And what happens after 3 months? And every year after that.
Please refer to my answer in point No 1 above and Point 5 below. Also refer to Murthy Chat in one of the posts by Jharkhandi.
5. If he files AR-11 now, he will have to fill lots of them every year in coming years!!!

Yes he is advised so, till he is a citizen.

Still confused........................

Your confusion shows your concern.Go ahead file the form and you will have a good night's sleep tonight.One cent that you spend today will save you dollars in the long run :)
 
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funny, funny stuff

JoeF said:
In the same vein, I could argue that you and Jharkhandi are related or are friends.
This is completely ridiculous, and I expect an apology.

This just made my entire weekend. He expects an apology?!?!?! I couldn't have asked for a more humorous statement to start off my friday.... :D

I guess accusing someone of "protecting their brethren" is vastly different from the above comment? It constantly amazes me how your warped mind works.

You make the same accusations to others in this very thread, but when others accuse you of the same, you expect an apology?

Which planet are you from? Don't you ever bother to read your own posts and slanders before accusing others of doing onto you what you do to them?

Why don't you read through your own posts in this very thread and see how many times you insulted other posters.

Bottom line is, it never hurts to spend the 37c and file an AR-11. I doubt they will even get to open it in the 3 months that the original poster's son spends in his temporary living arrangement, but WHO CARES?!?!?!

It will give him peace of mind. Isn't that worth infinitely more than anyone's interpretation of the convulated law? Is it truly required? Maybe not! But again, WHY BOTHER WITH THE QUESTION IF THE EFFORT REQUIRED TO FILE THE AR-11 IS SO MINISCULE COMPARED TO THE ALTERNATIVE IF THINGS DO GO SOUR?!?!?!

At this point, we're all obviously less concerned with the original poster's questions and more concerned with <b>BEING RIGHT AGAIN AND HAVING THE LAST WORD IN!</b>
 
JoeF said:
In the same vein, I could argue that you and Jharkhandi are related or are friends.
This is completely ridiculous, and I expect an apology.


Good fertile imagination.Keep expecting an apology.Absolutely no harm ;)
 
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Su_Gupta said:
When I posted the question I did not realize the heated discussion it will produce. After reading let me state a few more facts-

1.He is not changing address for any of the following, as he will be coming home once every week at least, since we are so close-by:
DMV
bank
credit card issuer
cable provider
phone provider
utilities provider
local post office

2. But he will be paying the rent through a check to the landlord for 3 months for the room- which his friend is not using for 3 months as the friend is going home and coming back when the college starts again.

3. If he files AR-11 now, he will have to file it again after 3 months when he moves back to his dorm.

4. Till now his permanant address at the University is our home address, should he change his address with them too? Does he need to change his address with Bank, Credit card, post office if he files AR- 11 now? And what happens after 3 months? And every year after that.

5. If he files AR-11 now, he will have to fill lots of them every year in coming years!!!

Still confused........................
Su_Gupta
The US is now "AR-11 Land" from entry to exit. To avoid any complication, whatsoever, I directed my son to send AR-11 by certified mail. When he came back after two months from Iowa we did the same thing. It was a short term employment with 99-Cents store and he was living in store's provided accomodation. The permanent address of my son is mine, as father this is my responsibility to ask him even if he is moving out for short term. This is his responsibility to send AR-11. Why I did this? because you never know about bad time, mishaps, accidents, crimes. Being a father I saved my son, myself and complied USCIS rule as special registrant.
In return, I received thanks letter from USCIS, peace of mind, gave a good law abiding lesson, etc.
It is safer to comply but harder to justify if involved in any unfortunate incident. Police talks about jurisdiction on one street, here is the matter of change of address. It is very diffcult to prove wrong parking tickets for minuts/hours, wise-guy will keep records of minuts/hours/days/weeks/months.
We do not follow law for today but for tommorow as well to save ourselves from "UNCERTAIN FUTURE".
You put this question here, I completed my steps in 15 minutes. Thats the experience. Su_Gupta do it and enjoy, wether it is temporary or permenant, follow it. Goodluck
Su_Gupta, Report it and Deport it. No travel required. save yourselve to called Su Su_Gupta
 
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