All the best for tomorrow - Bobsmyth
- Thread starter waitingforins2
- Start date
Congrats Bobsmyth! Please hang around for four more years when it will be my time to apply
Thanks lazycis..I certainly intend to hang around for a quite some time
JohnnyCash
Volunteer Moderator
First off, the notice for interview and checklist are not sent by the officers who conduct interview. In another word, adjudication officers don't send those letters/notices, rather clerks do. And clerks don't read file to see what is required and what is not. They just send a typical list for the documents to bring to the interview. Plus, clerks do make mistake sometime like everyone else. For example, there was two cases reported 3 yrs ago wherein two women received their interview letter wherein they were asked to bring selective service letter. Go figure that out...
Second, even though USCIS has all the files and documents with them at the time of interview, yet still each application is dealt on its merit and not based upon the evidence/document contained in another file. That's why USCIS always ask to send copy of green card, pics and other doucments along with naturalization certificate even though they have all the record on the applicant. Again, each application is dealt/decided on its own merit than based upon other files/applications on the applicant. Besides, officer didn't know if applicant is sitll married or if still married to the same one who s/he was previously married. To update/keep a marriage and divorce record is very important during immigration journey regardless of what kind of application is filed. So, officer just wanted to update this record with current information.
As for officer to have talked with you about Canadian Social Insurance number and other talk is just to keep the conversation going. Most officers do. It has nothing to do with requirement or legality, it's just keep things light while working in stress environment. And it has much to do with each officer's own personality. Some officers are very chatty, while others are not. I've read a citizenship interview here more than two years ago from a person from Vermont who mentioned that during the whole time in his interview officer was only talking about snow and weather and how hard to drive in this weather. Officer didn't even ask a single question and document. So it's all about the personality and mood of the officer. Sometime some officers keep this kind of talk to know something else about the applicant...like background, character or whatever that might be a ground to deny a citizenship.
I agree IOs have different characters, but they should all abide by the same set of documented rules instead of following them as they please..the process seems too arbitrary to me.
That's the major issue I have with USCIS..it's a department run with inconsistencies. I realize N-652 checklist is not sent out by IO, but if it's a form USCIS uses it surely must be part of their documented process and therefore IOs must be aware of what it says. How can they expect a paying customer (our fees pay their salaries) to follow their requirements when they aren't consistent. Looking at the N-652, a marriage certificate is only requested when you apply for naturalization on the basis of marriage to a US citizen.
As for copy of the driver's license, green card and passport, those are documents that are requested on N-652 so I don't have any issues of supplying them eventhough they have them on file.. Why don't they just say you need to bring all documents mentioned instead of having this inconsistency between what the N-652 and IO asks? No private company would ever survive which such inconsistencies and poor customer service experience.
I just back home about 90 min ago from my interview this morning and here is my story:
Me and my wife got to Durham DO at 8:50am. Her interview was scheduled for 9:00am, mine for 9:20am. Needless to say no cell phones or food are allowed into the building.The security guard at the front door will sternly remind you of this in a preacher fashion. We got to the second floor where there was an uniformed security agent who took our IL and brought them into the secured IO office space, and we were told to wait until our name was called.
I counted 56 seats in the waiting area, with about 15-20 people already there waiting. While we waited, an IO would come out to call the next person scheduled. At one point an IO came out and handed a deschedule letter to one of the applicants informing him that due to staffing they can't interview him today. That really started me going since we didn't come this far only to be told the day of our interview we were descheduled. Thank God my fears were quickly erased when they called my wife just before 10:00am (1 hr wait). Her IO was a younger blond woman , to the point, all business, no small talk, hardly a smile. My guess is that she is ex military from her looks. About 5 minutes into interview, my wife came out and said that IO wanted copy of marriage certificate. Good thing I had brought one copy just in case. I still don't know why the IO asked for it as it's not a marriage based case and therefore not a part of the required documents. On the other hand ,the IO didn't ask for her passport, just GC and driver's license. The IO asked my wife 6 simple civic questions which she had no problem to answer. The IO then asked her to read a sentence and write one short phrase. She had my wife sign photos in cursive signature. Finally, the IO went to over the remaining questions on application and ticked them off one by one without stopping.For the part about citations, my wife did mention past speeding ticket to which the IO replied "we're only interested with criminal citations". The handed my wife I-652 with congratulations checked off. My wife then asked officer if it would be possible to book her for next week's Sept 5th oath. The IO told her it was full and that she would be booked for October oath instead. My wife's interview took 15 minutes in all.
We waited for about another 20 minutes until my name was called (10:35am, 1hr 15min after scheduled time). My IO took me to his office and asked me to swear to tell the truth to which I said "I do". The IO was a late 40's gentlemen and noted that I was from Canada. He was pleasant, and wanted to know why I wanted to become a US citizen, and that he hadn't heard me say "eh?" yet. He went on to joke about how I'm from Canada and now Canada will see me as a traitor. He talked about Quebec separation and joked how they wouldn't want me back now. He then asked me for my passport, GC and driver's license. He then went straight to the civic question, which I got all correct.
1. Color of stripes on flag?
2. Who can declare war?
3. Where is the Whitehouse?
4. What is capital of North Carolina?
5. Who were enemies during WWII?
6. Minimum voting age in US?
For the answer on question 5, the IO joked "you sure Canada wasn't enemy as well"..to which I responded "no, that will be WWIII". The IO again poked some Canadian humor, and I made reference to the movie Canadian Bacon. It turns out the IO lived in Manitoba for some years, but he didn't get into more details with him about it.
The IO then had me read a simple phrase and write "They came to live in the United States". He then went over remaining questions in applications, and ticked off one by one. He asked be about citations, and arrests to which I replied "no". He never went further into the question about citations, or asked if I ever received speeding tickets. I never declared my speeding tickets on application nor did I obtain evidence that they were payed. My trip to Cuba never came up as well (I did declare it on original application). He reminded me that US doesn't recognize or care about dual citizenship, but that Canadian government does. The IO finally stamped the application, had me sign photos and application form in cursive writing and handed me I-652 with congratulations checked off. I asked him as well about possibility for Sept 5th oath to which he replied it was already full and that they don't find out about possible cancellations until last minute. He then told me I'd be receiving an oath notice in the coming week. I thanked the officer and the interview was over before I knew it. In all my interview was 15 minutes as well. When I got out of the office, the waiting crowd had swelled to about 40 people in the waiting area. The security officer had reminded the applications that due to staffing there is a 1 to 1 1/2 hr waiting time.
As you see there are some minor inconsistencies with the interview process, with different IOs requesting different documents. The interview process was painless, but I can see how it can be intimidating for some whose knowledge of English is fair or to those who are new to this country.
I'm relieved to have put this hurdle behind after waiting so long. Now the waiting begins for the oath letter.
Finally, I'd like to thank everyone on this board who have and continue to contribute their experiences, support, and knowledge (eventhough I may not always agree on the advice given). Without you this board wouldn't be half as valuable as it is today. Keep up the great work you've all contributed. And for those still waiting for their interview after many months of frustrations (descheduling) and waiting..hang in there..before you know it your journey will also come to an end.
If anyone has any questions about any part of interview I'd be glad to answer. Don't worry, I will stay continue to contribute to this board.
Thanks again everyone for your warm wishes
wow, Congratulations!!! You are almost done! Since Oct 5th oath is full, did you ask when you will be taking an oath if slot is available? I hope it doesn't take too long to receive the oath letter.
ah.. Your IO thought you were a Quebec bacon (in the movie-- one started WIII). Thanks God that you were not forced to be send out to Guantanamo. LOL. heh hehe
Thanks USGC485 , the Septh 5th oath is full and IO said I'd be scheduled for next available one. My wife's IO told her it would be October, and from another poster there is one for beginning of October (perhaps October 3rd?). Hoping to be part of that one ..let's see what happens.
that's because you're only part customer. you're also part-suspect. the other piece of this is that Congress since 1990 at least won't deign to fund CIS as they do with almost every other bureaucracy which of course, limits what can be done. finally, it's a bureaucracy... add to that that it is charged with administering absurdly complex laws and that if they admit some shady character, the whole world will hear about it (whereas other bureaucracies' mistakes often get swept under the carpet).
JohnnyCash
Volunteer Moderator
I totally understand what you meant, but you have to understand that it's just not possible for USCIS to send a list of those documents which pertain only specific case. Why? Because in order to find out what documents are required from each individual, USCIS would need to review each application very carefully and attentively which they cannot do that unless they increase the size of their capacity in double.
Who knows they might start doing that in a near future by outscoring the initial processing of naturalization applications by a subcontractor like they have for green card applications. For green card applications, these sub-contractor in Chicago review and checks each page of the application to know what is missing and what should be there. And when they find something is missing, they send out RFE and stop processing of application until RFE is furnished by the applicant. The problem is- many times RFEs are being issued mistakely. For example, people are told receiving RFEs for submitting tax transcripts, birth certificate, W-2s, I-94, medical examination report form and others when applicants already sent those with their applications. Also, many times RFE asks them to send 3 yrs of income tax returns when statutory requirement is just to submit the only year's tax return..the latest one. So, even private companies make mistakes...probably a bigger than USCIS.
There have been report that USCIS has given the initial processing of N-400 to a private company as a subcontractor...that's why you might have heard some applications are being transfered to NE (I think), but the problem is- nobody checks the application to know what is missing or what is required because they are strickly instructed to suggest applicants not to submit any documents even thought those documents are missing with the application; rather submit at the time of interview. So I don't know how USCIS can take care of this problem unless they make a list like I have for every applicant to ask them to bring all those documents.
The another problem is-some information on application could change even a minute before the interview, or between filing of application and date of interview, like applicant might have gotten married or divorced, children born, arrested, convicted, name got changed, changed of employer, associated with some groups/organization, didn't file required tax returns, etc...USCIS has no way to know about any of these changes by looking at the application alone. Thus, it's important for them to ask the applicants about all these during the interview.
However, I think USCIS should make a list of documents that I have so that they can send that one to everyone. This way noone could be left out and noone could say that I wasn't asked this and that in the list. USCIS tries to update their applications and records time and time again when they know something is wrong. For example, the current N-400 has been updated at least 8 times in 4-5 yrs alone. The last time they updated it just for the reason that the previous one didn't have "required" wording on the question which asks if you have ever failed to file required income taxes. Without this "required" wording, everyone needed to answer even though some applicants were/are not required to file income taxes because they either didn't have income or had very little income. So, who knows they might make any change to the list of documents as well....in the future, but don't expect a change if nobody would tell them what is confusing in there...
Even the current application needs update because it has confusing questions on reporting all citations which often confuses those who have traffic tickets/infractions. And even on traffic tickets, this form is not clear which ones to report and which don't. Instead, it says about reporting ALL citations without deciding yourself as to which should be disclosed and which are not, or which could cause denial or which won't.
The truth is, no matter how much funding is granted to USCIS, it's hard for USCIS to get over with backlog completely. People are migrating here in big numbers. Immigration has increased in this country since 90s. First, one lingers with USCIS for his/her own green card and citizenship. After becoming citizen, people linger on their spouse's or parents' cases, and then so on.. Until 1989, people could get their full green card in 4 months on marriage case. Then, it took 2-3 yrs, and now back to 4-6 months but only temporary one. What I'm trying to say that immigration to this country has raised all time high since 90s. So obviously, workload has increased too. Officer has only few mintues to decide an immigrant's fate. So it's very hard to say that USCIS can ever ask for specific documents on a particular case basis.
Who knows they might start doing that in a near future by outscoring the initial processing of naturalization applications by a subcontractor like they have for green card applications. For green card applications, these sub-contractor in Chicago review and checks each page of the application to know what is missing and what should be there. And when they find something is missing, they send out RFE and stop processing of application until RFE is furnished by the applicant. The problem is- many times RFEs are being issued mistakely. For example, people are told receiving RFEs for submitting tax transcripts, birth certificate, W-2s, I-94, medical examination report form and others when applicants already sent those with their applications. Also, many times RFE asks them to send 3 yrs of income tax returns when statutory requirement is just to submit the only year's tax return..the latest one. So, even private companies make mistakes...probably a bigger than USCIS.
There have been report that USCIS has given the initial processing of N-400 to a private company as a subcontractor...that's why you might have heard some applications are being transfered to NE (I think), but the problem is- nobody checks the application to know what is missing or what is required because they are strickly instructed to suggest applicants not to submit any documents even thought those documents are missing with the application; rather submit at the time of interview. So I don't know how USCIS can take care of this problem unless they make a list like I have for every applicant to ask them to bring all those documents.
The another problem is-some information on application could change even a minute before the interview, or between filing of application and date of interview, like applicant might have gotten married or divorced, children born, arrested, convicted, name got changed, changed of employer, associated with some groups/organization, didn't file required tax returns, etc...USCIS has no way to know about any of these changes by looking at the application alone. Thus, it's important for them to ask the applicants about all these during the interview.
However, I think USCIS should make a list of documents that I have so that they can send that one to everyone. This way noone could be left out and noone could say that I wasn't asked this and that in the list. USCIS tries to update their applications and records time and time again when they know something is wrong. For example, the current N-400 has been updated at least 8 times in 4-5 yrs alone. The last time they updated it just for the reason that the previous one didn't have "required" wording on the question which asks if you have ever failed to file required income taxes. Without this "required" wording, everyone needed to answer even though some applicants were/are not required to file income taxes because they either didn't have income or had very little income. So, who knows they might make any change to the list of documents as well....in the future, but don't expect a change if nobody would tell them what is confusing in there...
Even the current application needs update because it has confusing questions on reporting all citations which often confuses those who have traffic tickets/infractions. And even on traffic tickets, this form is not clear which ones to report and which don't. Instead, it says about reporting ALL citations without deciding yourself as to which should be disclosed and which are not, or which could cause denial or which won't.
The truth is, no matter how much funding is granted to USCIS, it's hard for USCIS to get over with backlog completely. People are migrating here in big numbers. Immigration has increased in this country since 90s. First, one lingers with USCIS for his/her own green card and citizenship. After becoming citizen, people linger on their spouse's or parents' cases, and then so on.. Until 1989, people could get their full green card in 4 months on marriage case. Then, it took 2-3 yrs, and now back to 4-6 months but only temporary one. What I'm trying to say that immigration to this country has raised all time high since 90s. So obviously, workload has increased too. Officer has only few mintues to decide an immigrant's fate. So it's very hard to say that USCIS can ever ask for specific documents on a particular case basis.
Atlanta_Brother
Registered Users (C)
Hi Bobsmyth,
I am glad your day went well and you passed your N-400 interview today. Now the wait begins for the oath letter. Let's hope you get scheduled for the oath in October. I am sure it will all be over before you even know it.
Good luck and all the best.
I am glad your day went well and you passed your N-400 interview today. Now the wait begins for the oath letter. Let's hope you get scheduled for the oath in October. I am sure it will all be over before you even know it.
Good luck and all the best.
1485waiter
Registered Users (C)
Congrats BobSmyth. Hope you get your oath letter soon.
Hey Bob, I am the last visitor of this thread probably. I am always late due to the process for my wife's case and reading more information all the time and figure something to make the process faster.
Congratlation man, pretty soon you will be one of us. I didn't know that you both had interview in the same day.
Thank you for your hard work and contrubution to immigrationportal community.
Peace
PS. so you said you disagreed with my post?
Congratlation man, pretty soon you will be one of us.
I didn't know that you both had interview in the same day.Thank you for your hard work and contrubution to immigrationportal community.
Peace
PS. so you said you disagreed with my post?
Contratulations Mr & Mrs. Bobsmith. Good thing do happen to good people. I am happy for you and your family. I remember you were the first one responded when I made a boo boo with my A# in my N400 applications and all related docs but you told me not to worry about it but rather have a updated apps for interview date. And, to you being right, in all my correspondence from USCIS, they have corrected my A#. My interview is on Sept. 25th and if all goes well (that is what I am hoping for - no hickkups!) soon I will be a proud US Citizen as well. Again, CONGRATULATIONS!!
Man, catch the joke.
You said in your speech when you got approved that "(eventhough I may not always agree on the advice given)."
You said it
You said Nimche is a trash.Vorpal (Nopal) where the heck is my invitation to the wedding? huh?
That's great news 2BUSCTZN,
Perhaps you'll even get an oath before October 10 and will be able to vote in elections
Man, catch the joke.
You said in your speech when you got approved that "(eventhough I may not always agree on the advice given)."
You said it
Vorpal (Nopal) where the heck is my invitation to the wedding? huh?
ahh, I was too slow on the joke..but now that you mention it, your advice does stink