About to send N-400, few questions, please help

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viraj3_16

Registered Users (C)
Hello

I am about to send my N-400 package for my spouse
She is a GC holder since 02, but had taken a long break(with re-entry permit Nov-03 to Aug 06) and returned in 01-Aug-06. Since then, there is no break of more than 6 months (180 days)

She would be applying under 4 year + 1 day rule (8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(ii)). As suggested by an attorney, we waited till 4 years 6 months and 1 day to apply (as then, there would be no break more than 180 days for past 5 years)

My question is
1) where should i mention that 4 year + 1 day rule is applied ?
Also what tax documents should be sent (according to USCIS , they need tax transcripts if absence is more than 6 months for last 5 years)
2) Are the tax documents needed at all ?, as for last 5 years (from 07-Feb-06 to 07-Feb 11), there is no break for more than 180 days.

Kindly advise? Any help is appreciated
Thanks
 
She is actually still applying on the 5 years rule of INA 316(a) modified by 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(ii).

Since it is something that the Officer will probably have to look up, it would be helpful to refer to it either on the "other" line on the N-400 or in a cover letter where you do all the math and cite (cut and paste the 8 CFR section).

IF the Officer has to do it him/herself, (s)he could just tell her that a "decision cannot be made" and look it up and do the math LATER.
 
Thanks BigJoe for your reply,

Does this mean , i would cite the wordings of 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(ii) in the cover letter? Also when you mean Math , should the cover letter include the no of days calculation for last 5 years ?. eg: 07-Feb-2006 to 01-Aug-2006 = 173 days outside of US

Please let us know
Thanks
 
Cover letter would state she is applying pursuant to 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(ii). She would use the actual wording on cover letter. On application you would select "other" and write down the regulation as well. Dates outside country and calculation are disclosed on application. No need to include them on cover letter as well.
 
viraj3_16 said:
She is a GC holder since 02, but had taken a long break(with re-entry permit Nov-03 to Aug 06) and returned in 01-Aug-06. Since then, there is no break of more than 6 months (180 days)
Click to expand...

Has she completed the required 30 months of physical presence in the last 5 years? Are you a US citizen who has been a citizen for at least 3 years and been married to her for at least 3 years?

Your answers to these questions will affect her options and eligibility.
 
viraj3_16 said:
Hello

I am about to send my N-400 package for my spouse
She is a GC holder since 02, but had taken a long break(with re-entry permit Nov-03 to Aug 06) and returned in 01-Aug-06. Since then, there is no break of more than 6 months (180 days)

She would be applying under 4 year + 1 day rule (8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(ii)). As suggested by an attorney, we waited till 4 years 6 months and 1 day to apply (as then, there would be no break more than 180 days for past 5 years)

My question is
1) where should i mention that 4 year + 1 day rule is applied ?
Also what tax documents should be sent (according to USCIS , they need tax transcripts if absence is more than 6 months for last 5 years)
2) Are the tax documents needed at all ?, as for last 5 years (from 07-Feb-06 to 07-Feb 11), there is no break for more than 180 days.

Kindly advise? Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Click to expand...

Actually , on the N-659 interview document check list , it says at the bottom " if you have taken a trip outside the united states that lasted for six months or more since becoming a permanent resident, bring :"
and they ask for proof that person has not abandon US resident and bring last 5 years of tax transcript.
Unless it's a mistake from USCIS and what they mean by "since becoming permanent resident" , actually means the last 5 years , since that is the time that matters to be eligible or not for citizenship .
It might be badly written on the document checklist .
My opinion would be that what is the point of bringing documents to show that you did not abandon your US residency for something that happened more than 5 years ago , when what matters for your eligibility is the last years .
Maybe others on this forum may have a better answer on that
 
big-bird said:
Actually , on the N-659 interview document check list , it says at the bottom " if you have taken a trip outside the united states that lasted for six months or more since becoming a permanent resident, bring :"
and they ask for proof that person has not abandon US resident and bring last 5 years of tax transcript.
Unless it's a mistake from USCIS and what they mean by "since becoming permanent resident" , actually means the last 5 years , since that is the time that matters to be eligible or not for citizenship .
It might be badly written on the document checklist .
My opinion would be that what is the point of bringing documents to show that you did not abandon your US residency for something that happened more than 5 years ago , when what matters for your eligibility is the last years .
Maybe others on this forum may have a better answer on that
Click to expand...

Does anyone has better answer maybe than me for Viraj's # 2 question ?
 
big-bird said:
Does anyone has better answer maybe than me for Viraj's # 2 question ?
Click to expand...

The reason the N-659 states to bring tax documents if an applicant ever took a trip over 6 month since becoming permanent resident is that such trips show residency intent of the applicant. In other words, it's USCIS way of saying that if the applicant ever showed intent in abandoning residency in the past, they have the right to demand evidence that the applicant has not abandoned residency during the statutory period.Past behavior is a sign of current intent.
 
Bobsmyth said:
The reason the N-659 states to bring tax documents if an applicant ever took a trip over 6 month since becoming permanent resident is that such trips show residency intent of the applicant. In other words, it's USCIS way of saying that if the applicant ever showed intent in abandoning residency in the past, they have the right to demand evidence that the applicant has not abandoned residency during the statutory period.Past behavior is a sign of current intent.
Click to expand...

Bobsmyth

Don't get me wrong on that one , we are not here to re-write the laws and regulations that USCIS officers have to follow and i agree 100 percent with you that USCIS IO should be able to check any documents they see fit to make sure someone is eligible for Naturalization .
But in a situation where someone for example left the country for 8 months 7 years ago and got a re-entry permit and had no other travels since then ( which is easy for an IO to check on their system ) how tax transcripts for the last 5 years will prove residency requirement, when by just checking travel dates on passport ( in that case none ) or in the internal homeland security system would show that the person never left the country in the last 5 years .
Asking for a tax transcript for that particular year when the travel was over 6 months and documents showing that the person kept ties with the US would make more sense .
Anyone can be in the US from January to march leave the country and come back in the middle of October and file taxes for that year , a tax transcript for that particular year wont prove that the person was in the US for the majority of the time .
Anyhow , i have always since coming to the US, respected the laws of this country and the federal employees who work everyday to make sure those laws are respected and even if we might have opinions about some laws and regulations , they are what they are and until they are changed we must respect them or go back to our native country .
 
big-bird said:
..how tax transcripts for the last 5 years will prove residency requirement, when by just checking travel dates on passport ( in that case none ) or in the internal homeland security system would show that the person never left the country in the last 5 years .
Click to expand...

Tax transcripts are just one form of supporting evidence (as opposed to a hard requirement) that USCIS may request to prove residency ties haven't been broken. Travel dates are another. USCIS can still request to see tax transcripts even if the applicant hasn't traveled outside more than 6 months in statutory period, but has since becoming a LPR. That's why they word the N-659 that way in case the IO chooses to ask (most of the time they likely don't ask when it's clear the applicant hasn't broken residency in statutory period.)
 
Thanks all for your replies,

I understand that i need to provide evidence during the interview to the IO,

But do i need to submit these in the N-400 package?

Please let me know
thanks
viraj
 
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Jackolantern said:
Has she completed the required 30 months of physical presence in the last 5 years? Are you a US citizen who has been a citizen for at least 3 years and been married to her for at least 3 years?

Your answers to these questions will affect her options and eligibility.
Click to expand...

she has completed around 36 months inside the us, and since feb-07-2006, there are no trips outside US for more than 6 months
I am not a US citizen, I am on a Work visa

Thanks
 
viraj3_16 said:
Thanks all for your replies,

I understand that i need to provide evidence during the interview to the IO,

But do i need to submit these in the N-400 package?

Please let me know
thanks
viraj
Click to expand...
You can include copies with the application when it's obvious you broke continuous residence in statutory period, but it's not a requirement. Just make sure you bring them to interview.
 
viraj3_16 said:
she has completed around 36 months inside the us, and since feb-07-2006, there are no trips outside US for more than 6 months
Click to expand...
She's been inside the US for 36 months in the last 5 years? So that would mean 24 months outside the US in the last 5 years. Those 24 months could cause her to be denied for breaking continuous residence if they were done in back-to-back trips with very short stays in the US in between, even though no individual trip is over 6 months.

Keeping every trip under 6 months doesn't mean one is safe -- it only means escaping the presumption of breaking residence. If each individual trip is under 6 months, they can still look at the bigger picture of your overall travel pattern when evaluating continuous residence.
 
Jackolantern said:
She's been inside the US for 36 months in the last 5 years? So that would mean 24 months outside the US in the last 5 years. Those 24 months could cause her to be denied for breaking continuous residence if they were done in back-to-back trips with very short stays in the US in between, even though no individual trip is over 6 months.

Keeping every trip under 6 months doesn't mean one is safe -- it only means escaping the presumption of breaking residence. If each individual trip is under 6 months, they can still look at the bigger picture of your overall travel pattern when evaluating continuous residence.
Click to expand...


Thanks everyone,

Actually she was out for 480 days (16 months), there is only one trip which is 5 months, after residing in the US for 6 months. we do have bank statements for that.

Keeping my fingers crossed, I have prepared the N-400 package
1) Cover letter(which states the 4 year + 1 day statute 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(ii))
2) N-400 signed with blue pen.
3) 2 photos with name and A number written in pencil
4) check for application and biometrics fee
5) copy of front and back of Green card.
6) Last 5 years tax transcripts or 1040

Please let me know if possible, if anything else is needed

Thanks for all the help.
 
Jackolantern said:
Don't send the tax transcripts with the application. Bring them to the interview, and show them only if asked.
Click to expand...

The instructions guide had a document checklist which was asking to send the transcripts, I am confused

"If you have taken any trip outside the United States that lasted 6 months or more since becoming a Lawful Permanent
Resident, send evidence that you (and your family) continued to live, work and/or keep ties to the United States, such as:
An IRS tax return “transcript” or an IRS-certified tax return listing tax information for the last 5 years (or for the last 3 years if
you are applying on the basis of marriage to a U.S. citizen)".

Any advise in interpretation of the above statement would definetely help
My wife technicaly doesnt have any a trip more than 6 months in last 5 years...but she definetely has a long trip since she became a LPR.
Also on the other hand, i do not want to open a can of worms for the IO.
Please help
Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They're not going to deny the application before the interview because of a lack of tax transcripts.

If you send them with the application, they become part of your permanent file, available for USCIS employees to look at for the next 100 years. I don't think you want that, so bring them to the interview and show them only if asked. That's what most people do, and they get through successfully (if denied, it's for another reason).
 
Jackolantern said:
They're not going to deny the application before the interview because of a lack of tax transcripts.

If you send them with the application, they become part of your permanent file, available for USCIS employees to look at for the next 100 years. I don't think you want that, so bring them to the interview and show them only if asked. That's what most people do, and they get through successfully (if denied, it's for another reason).
Click to expand...

Makes sense, Thanks for the help.
 
Viraj

Thanks for initiating this topic man. I just started to look at the N-400 application and came across this tax transacripts part only today. I come here and search and i find this thread. My story is very similar. I and my wife both got our GC's in 2004 August. We then left to India on March 21, 2005 and came back to USA on March 11, 2006 (stayed outside for about 355 days - slighlty less than a year. I did not even apply for any travel documents during that period. I was working for an Indian firm during that time. I have not maintained any thing in U.S except bank A/Cs. I filed all tax returns as resident. After MArch 11, 2006 - we have been staying in USA for more time. I lived outside USA for 314 days (around 2 months each time i travel to India - and i traveled every year back home). My wife stayed in India little longer - 458 days (one of her trips lasted for about 4 and half months). Now that we are completing almost 5 years from March 11, 2006 - we plan to file our applications some time this month. Questions: (1) do you see any issues with filing now - almost 4 years and 11 months since our long trip back to India) or should I wait till complete 5 years and file only on or after MArch 11, 2011. (2) Tax transacripts - only from federal government or State government also? (3) How long can we request these tax transacripts for? Can i request from year 2004 to 2009? (4) I keep photo copies of all my tax returns with me. Can I show these instead of tax transacripts at the time of Interview? (5) Do I need to show any proofs on why I was away for 11 months in India: like death in the family / Employment in India etc.

Please do reply when you get a chance.

Best Regards
Babu & Sita
 
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