What is your interpretation on this .......

Bobsmyth said:
Difference is that in US there almost certainly will be a record of it.
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So it come back to the point of factor is whether there is record or not for USCIS to track. So
the rule is

(1) Disclose arrest/citation/detention/charge/convicttion/sentence/fine records in USA regardless
whether the trial is fair or not
(2) Disclose arrest/citation/detention/charge/convicttion/sentence/fine records in foreign country only
when the trial is fair and meet USA standard
(3) Do not disclose arrest/citation/detention/charge/convicttion/sentence/fine records in foreign country
when the trial is not fair or does not meet USA standard.

If by American standard, all other countries were backward barbaric countries, then the rule is never disclose any criminal record outside USA.
 
WBH said:
Does citizen's arrest count as arrest for the purpose of Q16 of Part 10D?

If you commit a crime without any authority knowing, you can let your wife lock you up in the closet for 1 hour to cover
yourself so you can also honestly answer No to Q 15 of Part 10D.
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I believe that a citizen's arrest has to be made by a law enforcement official at the request of a civilian.
 
WBH said:
So if one was once detained for shoplifing by, say, Hamas or Hezibulla controlled area in Rebannon, he does not have
to mention it?
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'Hamas' cannot arrest you. That would be like saying that the Republican Party arrested you. I think you mean someone associated with these organizations arrested you. If you were just beaten up on the spot or taken to somebody's garage and beaten up, then probably not. If you were taken to something like a police station (or whatever they have there) then yes.
However, if they just 'beat you up around the corner' then you need to disclose that you committed a Crime but were never arrested for it.
So USCIS covers itself quite well with its questions.
 
Bobsmyth said:
Not "do not disclose", but rather use your own judgment. Think about it, would you disclose a serious conviction in a foreign country even if it was based on fabricated evidence or there is no paper trail available? Sure, you're supposed to disclose it, but an IO may use it as a reason to deny your application even if you never actually committed the crime (again, this is based on fabricated evidence in a puppet regime, not an ordinary case).
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Isn't everyone pleading 'Not Guilty' claiming that the charges against then are bogus? As we know, the final results after trial usually prove otherwise.
There are parts of the world where 'socially' it is OK to kill your sister if she has a boyfriend. However, it is still illegal.
Should someone who has killed his sister be allowed to claim no arrests/convictions and that the charges against them were 'fabricated' by a 'western puppet regime with western ideas' because killing her was the 'right' thing to do.
 
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GungaDin said:
Isn't everyone pleading 'Not Guilty' claiming that the charges against then are bogus? .
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I think the meaning of "pleading not guilty" is to let teh government prove beyong reasonsable doubt you are guilty.
Until then you are innocent. If you plead not guilty not choose not to testify, then you do not show any opinions whether
teh charge is bogus or not
 
GungaDin said:
Isn't everyone pleading 'Not Guilty' claiming that the charges against then are bogus? As we know, the final results after trial usually prove otherwise.
There are parts of the world where 'socially' it is OK to kill your sister if she has a boyfriend. However, it is still illegal.
Should someone who has killed his sister be allowed to claim no arrests/convictions and that the charges against them were 'fabricated' by a 'western puppet regime with western ideas' because killing her was the 'right' thing to do.
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N-400 assume laws of every country has something in common so there is no need to ask "Have you ever killded anyone".

On other matters, the N400 does ask for certain activities which can be deemed noncrminal in other parts of the world.
These include prostitution, procuring, polygamy, habitual drunkness etc. (Q22 of Part D).
 
GungaDin said:
'Hamas' cannot arrest you.
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What about be arrested by the taliban when the taliban still controlled Afagnstan before 2001?

I believe during that period the taliban militia served all fucntions of military, police, maybe even judges and prosecution as a sinleg one entity.
 
WBH said:
What about be arrested by the taliban when the taliban still controlled Afagnstan before 2001?

I believe during that period the taliban militia served all fucntions of military, police, maybe even judges and prosecution as a sinleg one entity.
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I'm tiring of this...
You've picked a complicated situation without probably even knowing about it.
Several countries had recognized the Taliban as the Government of Afghanistan by late 2001. So one can say that an arrest by a person empowered by the ruling government was an arrest that needs to be reported on the N400.
That does not mean that you will be summarily denied citizenship, only that there will be additional inquiries regarding the nature of your arrest to determine whether the arrest was politically motivated. If it was, your application will be approved. If on the other hand you were caught stealing and got whupped for it, does it really matter whether the 'arrest' was made by the Taliban or someone else.
 
GungaDin said:
Should someone who has killed his sister be allowed to claim no arrests/convictions and that the charges against them were 'fabricated' by a 'western puppet regime with western ideas' because killing her was the 'right' thing to do.
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Well it wouldn't be fabricated evidence if the person actually did commit the act.
 
Let me share with you a real time scenario which really happened to a friend of mine: He was doing charity/aid work in the remote village in Africa. No phone. No light. No technology. In the mean time, the current local government was overthrown by another rebel group fighting in that area in matter of days after they arrive. They controlled the local police station , the main road in/out of this small city and other government facilities. He and his crew (some of them from Europe and some from Asia) were returning back to the nearest city for supplies. Long story short he was indicted and arrested for treason and conspiracy against the rebel group. How do you categorize/label this as arrest as per the definition in the citizenship application?
 
Bobsmyth said:
Based on what evidence and what was his sentence?
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I wonder what if anyone answer Yes to Question 10 of Part 10B "Have you ever advocated (either directly or indirectly) the overthrow of any government by force or violence?". Does the impact of a YEs answer depends on whether USA goevrment want that government to be overthrown or it is just a bad answer? It is bad becaus ethe IO simply think you are not a loyal
type which has nothing to do with whever government it is.


I think even our goverment want some goverments of a few countries to be overthrown by force or violence but openly it is never a policy. Even some governbment USA dislike very much,
US government only advocate peaceful overthrown of that government but never by force or violence.
 
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Bobsmyth said:
Based on what evidence and what was his sentence?
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You don't need or required to provide evidence of any kind to arrest anybody in Africa specially by rebel group which let alone not even become a government yet. If you carry a gun , you can say any thing you want and that's the law.

He was giving malaria vaccines and doing preventive medical work.A couple of the officers wanted to take some of the medical supplies and he refused. i don't remember now how many days or months he was arrested.
 
WBH said:
I wonder what if anyone answer Yes to Question 10 of Part 10B "Have you ever advocated (either directly or indirectly) the overthrow of any government by force or violence?". Does the impact of a YEs answer depends on whether USA goevrment want that government to be overthrown or it is just a bad answer? It is bad becaus ethe IO simply think you are not a loyal
type which has nothing to do with whever government it is.


I think even our goverment want some goverments of a few countries to be overthrown by force or violence but openly it is never a policy. Even some governbment USA dislike very much,
US government only advocate peaceful overthrown of that government but never by force or violence.
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WBH - You have forwarded eloquent questions here. Specially if your IO have no clue about the current or past political history about that particular region/country/countries , if you answered yes to that question , you will be toast even though you were with the good people.i doubt if IO will have a very clear and concise information about the on going political situations more that what they hear and see on their LCD screens which by the way is the fraction of it.
 
Bobsmyth said:
Based on what evidence and what was his sentence?
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How does that matter in answering a Yes/No question. It can go towards explaining an arrest but doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of reporting the arrest.

Greentocitizen. Were the 'rebels' law enforcement officers? If so he was arrested. Otherwise he was kidnapped/abducted.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
I think the real rule is "disclose everything where the USCIS is likely to obtain records, whether it was fair or not."
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I think the mainstream in the real world certainly l;ive by this rule. This is a no-brainer.

It is also a good practice to disclose a few minor things that USCIS will never know but does not care
if they know so that one can have a sense of pride in his own honesty.
 
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