I have an interview, scheduled a day before I reach full three years of permanent residency (based on marriage). My DO is Washington D.C./Fairfax, where I read here and elsewhere that the interview and the oath are usually done on the same day. Does that mean that I wont be able to take the oath the same day, granted I pass the interview? Also, on what days can the oath be taken in Fairfax office? Anybody else has a similar experience?
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Taking Oath before 3 (5) full years of being a permanent resident?
- Thread starter mark-n400
- Start date
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Somebody else was in a similar situation (although not as little as 1 day before). Went for the interview, then was told the interview has to be rescheduled for a date after the 5-year mark.
Even if they still decide to give you the interview one day before your 3-year mark, don't accept the oath on the same day. Allowing you to take the oath before your full 3 years would be a mistake, and citizenship granted in error is subject to being revoked at any time in the future once the mistake is discovered. Do you want to have an easily revocable citizenship?
Even if they still decide to give you the interview one day before your 3-year mark, don't accept the oath on the same day. Allowing you to take the oath before your full 3 years would be a mistake, and citizenship granted in error is subject to being revoked at any time in the future once the mistake is discovered. Do you want to have an easily revocable citizenship?
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The IO can't. USCIS doesn't make the laws. They just implement them. USCIS cannot make you a citizen before you satisfy the legal requirements. Only congress can through a private law. If you take your oath without satisfying the requirements you may or may not be a citizen a day later. Maybe a court would find that it went into effect a day later. Maybe a court would find that your oath was invalid. Definitively not worth the risk.
I wasn't implying that the IO has the authority to overrule the laws, but a 1 day deficiency in eligibility can easily be overlooked. It's still up to USCIS to approve the application and administer the oath.
Denaturalization is a difficult and time consuming process..not one that a Federal court would easily approve without substantial evidence that the original application was approved via fraudulent means; something that does not apply in the OP's case.
Denaturalization is a difficult and time consuming process..not one that a Federal court would easily approve without substantial evidence that the original application was approved via fraudulent means; something that does not apply in the OP's case.
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Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
It can be overlooked at the time of the oath, because USCIS makes all sorts of mistakes. But it's not something that would be overlooked later on if the validity of one's citizenship is ever challenged.I wasn't implying that the IO has the authority to overrule the laws, but a 1 day deficiency in eligibility can easily be overlooked. It's still up to USCIS to approve the application and administer the oath.
But it's not something that would be overlooked later on if the validity of one's citizenship is ever challenged.
Agreed..if it ever does get challenged. Even then, the higher courts may rule that the USCIS's mistake must stand instead of starting denaturalization proceedings.
In fact, in Gorbach vs Reno the 9th district court ruled that USCIS does not have the authority to denaturalize a citizen administratively, thereby making denaturalization a very difficult and costly venture for the USCIS..something I doubt they would consider undertaking if the original mistake was traced back to their decision.
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Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
If the 1-day-too-early case goes to court it probably wouldn't be USCIS themselves initiating it; it probably would be some other agency like the FBI or DEA urging USCIS to do it after failing to get some other charges to stick, or a political opponent challenging one's eligibility to run for office.Agreed..if it ever does get challenged. Even then, the higher courts may rule that the USCIS's mistake must stand instead of starting denaturalization proceedings.
In fact, in Gorbach vs Reno the 9th district court ruled that USCIS does not have the authority to denaturalize a citizen administratively, thereby making denaturalization a very difficult and costly venture for the USCIS..something I doubt they would consider undertaking if the original mistake was traced back to their decision.
However, if it ever reaches that stage, I don't think denaturalization would be as difficult as with other cases involving lying or digging up old crimes. In this case, the facts are clear cut and easy to prove.
Bottom line is that obtaining citizenship under such circumstances goes against the very reason why most people want citizenship in the first place, which is to be secure in their right to live in and fully participate in this country. Getting citizenship with a known reason for possible revocation is at odds with the goal of having of that security. I don't know about you, but if I obtain US citizenship I want it to be as bulletproof as possible.
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First: My recommendation would be to wait for the legal requirement (3 years) to be met before taking the oath.
Second: From the post it is apprant that the applicant knows about 1 day issues and it may be considered a reflection on good charater if he or she willingly takes the oath even if he or she has not qualified due to time constraints as set by the immigration law. Even if USCIS has made a mistake it is too big a risk to take for life.
I have written this earlier and am repeating it again here:
" Probability wise it is a small risk to take but with very big consequences if ever got caught"
Vik_b
PD 7/29/08
ID 11/20/08
Second: From the post it is apprant that the applicant knows about 1 day issues and it may be considered a reflection on good charater if he or she willingly takes the oath even if he or she has not qualified due to time constraints as set by the immigration law. Even if USCIS has made a mistake it is too big a risk to take for life.
I have written this earlier and am repeating it again here:
" Probability wise it is a small risk to take but with very big consequences if ever got caught"
Vik_b
PD 7/29/08
ID 11/20/08
If they take the stance that you weren't eligible to become a citizen, they don't even have to denaturalize you. Again, crazy risk for no gain.
Once USCIS administers the oath, you become a citizen. Whether you were eligible or not becomes a separate issue. They can't annul an administrative decision..they would still have to denaturalize you first through a lengthy legal process.
I had my interview today! Everything was fine and very fast. IO was extremely nice and polite! She didn't ask me for anything except for my green card! I brought three bags worth of evidence and nothing. I asked her: Are you not going to ask me for anything? She said, nope. Then she proceeded to schedule me for the oath. "Your oath will be today" To her surprise I said: It wont! She looked at me as if I was insane, asked why not and I explained the reason. Guess what? She though I could still take it but went to double check, I asked her if tomorrow is OK and we agreed. So I'll be taking my oath exactly as a 3 year permanent resident. How crazy is that? Green card October 29, 2005, citizen (hopefully) October 29, 2008.
One more thing, I decided not to risk anything of course and hopefully the process will end smoothly. However if we look at the math itself and include the end date in calculation, the result is 3 years. See for yourself: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=oct&d1=29&y1=2005&m2=oct&d2=28&y2=2008&ti=on
Congratulations..just as I thought.. the one day was overlooked by the IO. Had you taken the oath today I don't think it would have come to haunt you in the future as some have suggested here. In fact, in the history of the USCIS there is not one single case of denaturalization of a citizen based on your circumstance.
Enjoy your oath tomorrow.
Enjoy your oath tomorrow.
One more thing, I decided not to risk anything of course and hopefully the process will end smoothly. However if we look at the math itself and include the end date in calculation, the result is 3 years. See for yourself: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=oct&d1=29&y1=2005&m2=oct&d2=28&y2=2008&ti=on
Actually, today is exactly 3 years (1095 days) since you got your GC. If you were to take your oath today, it would have been perfectly legal.
It depends if you use calendar years or calendar days since 2008 was a leap year.
3*365= 1095 days based on full years +1 day(leap year) =1096 days
Considering that USCIS is always full of surprises, counting leap years is definitely a possibility.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Waiting 1 day is a small price to pay for the extra security. No need to worry about court interpretations, leap years, whether to include the end date or not.