Voting Before Naturalization Can Cause you Problems

[sri69]

Agree with the people suggesting to exercise caution in this case. Voting in a federal election is clear as black and white in terms of the law. The cases where there is leniency is where people registered but didn't vote, or they voted where a local area permitted the LPR to vote, or a child of US citizen, or reason to believe that they were a US citizen. But registering then actually voting for federal is an obvious offense, even more emphasized if none of the exceptional circumstances apply (and now the OP has documented this in writing in an application and under oath in an interview).

Careful not to provide too much information at this point, as it is an offense punishable by fines and imprisonment (max 1 to 5 years or so?), let alone the deportation, etc.

And given that it sounds like you have it in writing that you voted in 2004 (even if you didn't actually vote that year, the IO now likely believes you did because you told them 2004 under oath in the interview), and you may confirmed the documentation in the system as voting in 2000, it sounds like it's time to run for the hills.

You may want to triple check and confirm exactly which elections you voted in. Don't offer any more information until you get this understood explicitly. If USCIS gets evidence of an undisclosed voting year/election, then one should only expect the worse from there. So ensure that it is 2000 only, and not some other year or election.

Truly hope that a miracle happens and the DO shows leniency, but realistically this is a very serious offense and would not contact or mail USCIS until you make your response as bulletproof as possible. This next correspondence is a significant event. Wish you well and keep strong.

 

[sri69]

Can't agree more with Bobsmyth on his most informative post (see below).

Would suggest to stop quoting these lawyers by $xxx.xx per hour, and start quoting your lawyers by "X cases for deporation, Y successful outcomes"

In my opinion, you need to seek the best of the best, someone with specific experience that has defended deportation for voting in a federal election and WON.

Think of this decision as an investment in your future. Take the future into your own hands by hiring by experience, not by D-rate.

There was an article last year in the NY times mentioning several voters in Florida who were ordered deported for the same thing. You may want to try contacting the lawyer (Jeffrey Brauwerman) in the article to see if he was able to successfully defend them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/us/12naturalize.html

http://www.brauwermanlaw.com/Bio/JeffreyBrauwerman.asp

The possible reason you are getting different answers from lawyers is that they never represented such a case and aren't willing to tell you so. When discussing your case with a lawyer make sure to ask if they have ever represented such a case and what the outcome was. Lawyers are a dime a dozen, but finding the right lawyer for your case is priceless.

 

[Jackolantern]

I was referring specifically to cases where the applicant declared they voted on N-400 application. I doubt someone would come back on this form to claim they were deported for doing so.

But people have reported on the forum that they or their spouse are in removal proceedings.

In the previous thread I had included a 2002 USCIS memo that guides IO how to adjudicate such cases, so I don't think it's as haphazard as you make it make it out to be.

http://www.aa-law.com/images/stories/naturalization-unlawful-registration-or-voting.pdf

So your position is that deportation is guaranteed no matter what. If that is the case, there is no point to sending in any documents anyway, if one's fate was already sealed by admitting the act of voting.

 

[MDI]

Here is what I am going to do. I will have this lawyer to write a letter for me and I will make sure I take all the fact into account, I will meet with the other lawyer on Monday for free counsultation and may even show him the letter I'll get from the first one. If he feels good about it, I will mail my documents and whatever happpens happens. I cannot sleep or eat and everyone is stressed out at home. I cannot live like this for longtime, let's face it and put it in God's hands.

Do not send any letters at this stage. It won't do you any good and anything you (or the lawyer) write can be used against you later on. There have been people in your situation who have been able to avoid deportation, but they have done so on technicalities, not on leniency. Have a look at the Ellen McDonald case (I can't post the link because this forum won't allow me), but just google "McDonald v. Gonzales" and "03-71986".

She voted in Hawaii, applied for naturalization and was placed in removal proceedings. The government lost on a technicality and she was allowed to stay.

The government will make the first step, not you. In the meantime you should consult an experienced attorney, i.e. not any attorney but one who has already dealt with similar cases. My suggestion would be to contact the lawyer who handled the McDonald case above. I don't know him personally, so I don't know what he's like, but he won a case similar to yours. You can find his contact details on Google.

 

[Bobsmyth]

So your position is that deportation is guaranteed no matter what. If that is the case, there is no point to sending in any documents anyway, if one's fate was already sealed by admitting the act of voting.

My position is that once you disclose you have voted on N-400 application and at interview, you face deportation whether you send in the supporting documentation (voter registration) or not.There's nothing that says that USCIS must first request documentation from an applicant before they can reach the decision of whether to deny the N-400 and start removal proceedings in such circumstances.

But I see your point, as the USCIS procedural memo instructs the IO to obtain any relevant evidence (such as voter registration) in order to reach a decision whether the applicant voted unlawfully. Without the supporting evidence, USCIS has a weaker case but it doesn't stop them coming to such a decision.

 

[Bobsmyth]

Do not send any letters at this stage. It won't do you any good and anything you (or the lawyer) write can be used against you later on. There have been people in your situation who have been able to avoid deportation, but they have done so on technicalities, not on leniency. Have a look at the Ellen McDonald case (I can't post the link because this forum won't allow me), but just google "McDonald v. Gonzales" and "03-71986".

She voted in Hawaii, applied for naturalization and was placed in removal proceedings. The government lost on a technicality and she was allowed to stay.

The government will make the first step, not you. In the meantime you should consult an experienced attorney, i.e. not any attorney but one who has already dealt with similar cases. My suggestion would be to contact the lawyer who handled the McDonald case above. I don't know him personally, so I don't know what he's like, but he won a case similar to yours. You can find his contact details on Google.

Although similar in circumstances, the case involves an appeal to a BIA order of removal. Although the OP hasn't been ordered removed, it does provide a possible legal framework if such a removal were to take place.

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2005/03/02/0371986.pdf

 

[Jackolantern]

My position is that once you disclose you have voted on N-400 application and at interview, you face deportation whether you send in the supporting documentation (voter registration) or not.

Being deportable doesn't mean USCIS or ICE will automatically choose to initiate deportation proceedings. It just means they can deport you if they want to. They may forget about the case due to their usual lethargic tendencies, or they may use prosecutorial discretion to decide against pursuing deportation. The document you linked to even mentions using prosecutorial discretion to decide on a case-by-case basis whether to pursue deportation.

There's nothing that says that USCIS must first request documentation from an applicant before they can reach the decision of whether to deny the N-400 and start removal proceedings in sucg circumstances.

True. But the fact that they can deport you doesn't mean they will necessarily pursue that route. By submitting the documentation, that draws their attention back to the case and decreases the chances of them lazily closing it and forgetting about it.

 

[maslouj]

Yes.

This forum and other web sites have examples. You already linked to one. Others I don't have at my fingertips but I'll post links when I find them.


Edit: This person got a denial, but no sign of deportation (yet): http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=288537

This case was approved after de-registration: http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=283427

The two cases are a little different from mine. The one who was granted citizenship had never voted and de registered before his interview, the second one had voted 2 times and within his statutory period. I voted in 2000 (9 years ago) I was approved for GC regardless and I did not de registered until they told me so on 07/13/09. I am hoping that what was said in the letter sent to the guy who voted twice applies to me too.
"At the end, the letter says "You may reapply for naturaliztion when your illegal voting activity is no longer within the established statutory period."
Thank you for posting these two cases. I will print and take them with me to the lawyer office.

 

[vdostoi1]

The two cases are a little different from mine. The one who was granted citizenship had never voted and de registered before his interview, the second one had voted 2 times and within his statutory period. I voted in 2000 (9 years ago) I was approved for GC regardless and I did not de registered until they told me so on 07/13/09. I am hoping that what was said in the letter sent to the guy who voted twice applies to me too.
"At the end, the letter says "You may reapply for naturaliztion when your illegal voting activity is no longer within the established statutory period."
Thank you for posting these two cases. I will print and take them with me to the lawyer office.

I also believe that whatever you send in, you need to correct the details of your case to ensure that USCIS understands that you voted in 2000 and not in 2004 because at that point you can argue that you did not know the laws as well. If you had voted in 2004, that would have been about 5 years after your arrival...

 

[maslouj]

Can't agree more with Bobsmyth on his most informative post (see below).

Would suggest to stop quoting these lawyers by $xxx.xx per hour, and start quoting your lawyers by "X cases for deporation, Y successful outcomes"

In my opinion, you need to seek the best of the best, someone with specific experience that has defended deportation for voting in a federal election and WON.

Think of this decision as an investment in your future. Take the future into your own hands by hiring by experience, not by D-rate.

How would I find out if lawyers are good enough or not. I have never hired one before. Some one in this forum had suggested this firm and I would like you to see if you think they are good. Thanks
http://www.visalaw.com/about.html

 

[vdostoi1]

How would I find out if lawyers are good enough or not. I have never hired one before. Some one in this forum had suggested this firm and I would like you to see if you think they are good. Thanks
http://www.visalaw.com/about.html

I have used him before. Greg is a very active member of AILA and has an excellent reputation. Aside from being an attorney, he is also out to help people so I suggest you reach out to him at least. I believe also that he will be honest enough to tell you if he cannot help you.

 

[maslouj]

I also believe that whatever you send in, you need to correct the details of your case to ensure that USCIS understands that you voted in 2000 and not in 2004 because at that point you can argue that you did not know the laws as well. If you had voted in 2004, that would have been about 5 years after your arrival...

Yes, and this is why I am hoping that when I point out to them that it was in 2000 (I have voting records that shows it), I am hoping they will let it go and approve my application. However, I am still sick and cannot sleep or eat since Monday just thinking about having to leave the country I love and I respect. I was planning on working for an agency that Mr. Obama had created to link the bridges between cultures and I was hoping to represent my culture as an American Citizen and work with others to make some peace and promote respect and love. I told my 4-year-old daughter yesterday that we may have to move to Europe, she started crying and said:" But I like here daddy" I had to go to the bathroom and cry so she won't see me. My wife has been waiting with me to get my citizenship so she can apply for her GC she has a master degree in engineering and cannot work until we apply for her documents, I feel I let everyone down and destroyed their hopes and dreams because of a stupid mistake.

 

[vdostoi1]

Yes, and this is why I am hoping that when I point out to them that it was in 2000 (I have voting records that shows it), I am hoping they will let it go and approve my application. However, I am still sick and cannot sleep or eat since Monday just thinking about having to leave the country I love and I respect. I was planning on working for an agency that Mr. Obama had created to link the bridges between cultures and I was hoping to represent my culture as an American Citizen and work with others to make some peace and promote respect and love. I told my 4-year-old daughter yesterday that we may have to move to Europe, she started crying and said:" But I like here daddy" I had to go to the bathroom and cry so she won't see me. My wife has been waiting with me to get my citizenship so she can apply for her GC she has a master degree in engineering and cannot work until we apply for her documents, I feel I let everyone down and destroyed their hopes and dreams because of a stupid mistake.

Listen - you are worried prematurely. Because this was a stupid and unintentional mistake, I really think you stand an excellent chance of being approved. Just do your best to prove your case.

 

[maslouj]

I have used him before. Greg is a very active member of AILA and has an excellent reputation. Aside from being an attorney, he is also out to help people so I suggest you reach out to him at least. I believe also that he will be honest enough to tell you if he cannot help you.

I called them and I have an appiontment with someone there on Monday. But I have an other appiontement today at 11:30 with one lawyer who wanted to write me a letter for $400. Do you think I just call and cancel this one?

 

[maslouj]

Listen - you are worried prematurely. Because this was a stupid and unintentional mistake, I really think you stand an excellent chance of being approved. Just do your best to prove your case.

Thanks I really wish if I can believe that too.

 

[tnwalker]

Good luck again and get the best attorney. Especially if they happen to be local to you. Most important just calm down and be focused-when you get all worked up, it is not going to help you one bit.

But a good attorney is the best bet-even for something as a mundane as a speeding ticket-the difference between a good one and a bad one or even writing up your own stuff can be huge. For matters such as this-just calm down, focus and get it done.The one you have Mon seems to be a good one-nothing can hurt -well 400 is alow price to pay-if you attend today's and then when you attend monday, you have a base to compare.

Good luck-it may just all work out.

 

[vdostoi1]

I called them and I have an appiontment with someone there on Monday. But I have an other appiontement today at 11:30 with one lawyer who wanted to write me a letter for $400. Do you think I just call and cancel this one?

Up to you. You ultimately need only one good attorney.

 

[Bobsmyth]

I called them and I have an appiontment with someone there on Monday. But I have an other appiontement today at 11:30 with one lawyer who wanted to write me a letter for $400. Do you think I just call and cancel this one?

Before you decide to pay $400 for a lawyer to write you a letter, ask the lawyer what their strategy is and if they have ever successfully defended such a case. If yes, ask for the case and details. If the lawyer says you must first start with a letter and see how things move along as they go, then find another lawyer. You want someone who will defend you with a clear plan of action, not someone who first demands money for a letter, then more money for another letter and so on.

Btw, do you otherwise have a clean history as a LPR? Also, can you demonstrate community involvement (ex: member of cultural understanding group), that you payed taxes, held steady job and other wise have been a law biding citizen? This can go along way in demonstrating GMC.

 

[maslouj]

I am just going to cancel today's appiontment and go to Monday's I don't have money to be wasting like this. I may end up deported and have no cash to even pay for a place to stay because I will spend it all on Lawyers trying to find the right one.

 

[WBH]

Btw, do you otherwise have a clean history as a LPR?

I don't know if keeping registered to vote is a crime or not.

Th OP registered before getting GC but did not de-register until very
lately.

Some crimes/offense are countable acts some crime/offense seem to be a continous status. So I don't know how the law enforcement count crime or offense.