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USCIS: "OK to travel to COP" - Read this!
- Thread starter rdmo
- Start date
comcast said:A CBP officer does BOTH immigration and customs inspections. There is no IMMIGRATION OFFICER or CUSTOMS OFFICERS within the CBP.
Exactly what I'm trying to say, a CBP officer, the one you meet at the airport checks for your admissibility into the country, BUT if he finds something fishy, he hands your case over to an immigration officer who in turn has to file a case before a judge to prosecute you. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they cannot make a decision on the spot, it's not within their authority to do so. It's not even up to the immigration officer's! Remember that in the legal system in the US (common law) you have the right to presumption of innocence, that is, you are innocent until proven gulity in a court of law. So whatever the case is, I highly doubt a mere CBP officer is playing judge at the airpot and will deport a PR back to his/her country...it just doesn't happen that way!
rdmo said:Exactly what I'm trying to say, a CBP officer, the one you meet at the airport checks for your admissibility into the country, BUT if he finds something fishy, he hands your case over to an immigration officer who in turn has to file a case before a judge to prosecute you. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they cannot make a decision on the spot, it's not within their authority to do so. It's not even up to the immigration officer's! Remember that in the legal system in the US (common law) you have the right to presumption of innocence, that is, you are innocent until proven gulity in a court of law. So whatever the case is, I highly doubt a mere CBP officer is playing judge at the airpot and will deport a PR back to his/her country...it just doesn't happen that way!
I agree.
RD Aug 22.2001
Approved Sep 15,2005
GC received Sep 20,2005
rdmo said:Exactly what I'm trying to say, a CBP officer, the one you meet at the airport checks for your admissibility into the country, BUT if he finds something fishy, he hands your case over to an immigration officer who in turn has to file a case before a judge to prosecute you. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they cannot make a decision on the spot, it's not within their authority to do so. It's not even up to the immigration officer's! Remember that in the legal system in the US (common law) you have the right to presumption of innocence, that is, you are innocent until proven gulity in a court of law. So whatever the case is, I highly doubt a mere CBP officer is playing judge at the airpot and will deport a PR back to his/her country...it just doesn't happen that way!
I don't think so. First of all IO at the airport can detain any immigrant (deny entry) for any period of time. Yes they can't arrest you but they certainly can detain you. And yes, they can send you home. If you would kill somebody then you would get arrested, had a right for a lawyer and meet the judge because it is crime. Breaking Immigration laws is not a crime so same rules does not apply.
TortFeasor
Registered Users (C)
Where do you think you are?
I was gone for few weeks and am back to see the same old song being played over and over again!
Ayyubov: do you think that you are still in that great socialist peoples republic from where you have hailed from? As a legal permanent resident, the Constitution and laws of the United States grant you a number of due process rights and protections that cannot be arbitrarily denied at the whim of a border agent. Revocation of LPR status is to be done in a formal process, with an opportunity to be heard and to challenge the government's action. Unlike the Politburo of the Communist Party, our government reacts well to judicial challenges.
Of course, if there is an outstanding warrant due to your connection to the Russian, the Ukrainian or any related mobs (I am not intimating that you have but let's say you do), then upon your arrival at the airport, you will be properly arrested and prosecuted in the regular process. The border agent cannot even allow you to return to your Beloved Motherland even if you wish to do so.
Please do not offer unsubstantiated legal comments when you do not have any foundation for your baseless assertions.
Desvadanya Comrade!
I was gone for few weeks and am back to see the same old song being played over and over again!
Ayyubov: do you think that you are still in that great socialist peoples republic from where you have hailed from? As a legal permanent resident, the Constitution and laws of the United States grant you a number of due process rights and protections that cannot be arbitrarily denied at the whim of a border agent. Revocation of LPR status is to be done in a formal process, with an opportunity to be heard and to challenge the government's action. Unlike the Politburo of the Communist Party, our government reacts well to judicial challenges.
Of course, if there is an outstanding warrant due to your connection to the Russian, the Ukrainian or any related mobs (I am not intimating that you have but let's say you do), then upon your arrival at the airport, you will be properly arrested and prosecuted in the regular process. The border agent cannot even allow you to return to your Beloved Motherland even if you wish to do so.
Please do not offer unsubstantiated legal comments when you do not have any foundation for your baseless assertions.
Desvadanya Comrade!
ayyubov said:I don't think so. First of all IO at the airport can detain any immigrant (deny entry) for any period of time. Yes they can't arrest you but they certainly can detain you. And yes, they can send you home. If you would kill somebody then you would get arrested, had a right for a lawyer and meet the judge because it is crime. Breaking Immigration laws is not a crime so same rules does not apply.
ayyubov said:I don't think so. First of all IO at the airport can detain any immigrant (deny entry) for any period of time. Yes they can't arrest you but they certainly can detain you. And yes, they can send you home. If you would kill somebody then you would get arrested, had a right for a lawyer and meet the judge because it is crime. Breaking Immigration laws is not a crime so same rules does not apply.
OK, let me clear this for you. When you become a resident, you are part of this country. You are not a visitor anymore. When a tourist tries to get in the US with a fake visa/passport, sure, they can be sent back to their country on the spot, they have NO immigration rights whatsoever in the US. But us on the other hand, we are legal residents, taxpayers, and as such are entilted to some rights...like presumption of innocence!
Trying to get into the US with fake visa/passport, that's breaking the immigration law, and CBP officers have the authority to enforce the law and deport that individual to their country of origin. But don't forget we are talking about someone who is a legal PR, who went back to his/her COP, came back and was not allowed in. Where is this person breaking the law? To do this, the officer at the POE would have to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that this person commited fraud (lied) in his application for asylum/adjustment of status. Fraud is a federal offense (a crime), and as such has to be tried and proved in a court of law.
The only way for someone to be deported on the spot is if they sign a form relinquishing all their rights, and basically abandon willingly and voluntarily their status. I guess if an officer pushes your buttons often and long enough, they can scare you into signing anything....and before you realize it you are on a plane back to your country!
TortFeasor said:I was gone for few weeks and am back to see the same old song being played over and over again!
Ayyubov: do you think that you are still in that great socialist peoples republic from where you have hailed from? As a legal permanent resident, the Constitution and laws of the United States grant you a number of due process rights and protections that cannot be arbitrarily denied at the whim of a border agent. Revocation of LPR status is to be done in a formal process, with an opportunity to be heard and to challenge the government's action. Unlike the Politburo of the Communist Party, our government reacts well to judicial challenges.
Of course, if there is an outstanding warrant due to your connection to the Russian, the Ukrainian or any related mobs (I am not intimating that you have but let's say you do), then upon your arrival at the airport, you will be properly arrested and prosecuted in the regular process. The border agent cannot even allow you to return to your Beloved Motherland even if you wish to do so.
Please do not offer unsubstantiated legal comments when you do not have any foundation for your baseless assertions.
Desvadanya Comrade!
I agree 100%
rdmo said:OK, let me clear this for you. When you become a resident, you are part of this country. You are not a visitor anymore. When a tourist tries to get in the US with a fake visa/passport, sure, they can be sent back to their country on the spot, they have NO immigration rights whatsoever in the US. But us on the other hand, we are legal residents, taxpayers, and as such are entilted to some rights...like presumption of innocence!
Trying to get into the US with fake visa/passport, that's breaking the immigration law, and CBP officers have the authority to enforce the law and deport that individual to their country of origin. But don't forget we are talking about someone who is a legal PR, who went back to his/her COP, came back and was not allowed in. Where is this person breaking the law? To do this, the officer at the POE would have to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that this person commited fraud (lied) in his application for asylum/adjustment of status. Fraud is a federal offense (a crime), and as such has to be tried and proved in a court of law.
The only way for someone to be deported on the spot is if they sign a form relinquishing all their rights, and basically abandon willingly and voluntarily their status. I guess if an officer pushes your buttons often and long enough, they can scare you into signing anything....and before you realize it you are on a plane back to your country!
First of all I wasn;t talking about permanent residents only but generally. The subject of discussion was if IO reside in airports and can deport people and you agreed in your post that it's possible. Second of all you all don't know either what could happen if asylee PR would return from COP and tell IO at the point of entry that it was a pleasure trip. That PR could easily be detained. Like I mentioned before I recently have been questioned by Custom and Border patrole at JFK about my trip and why I don't have a passport (they wanted to trick me).
You are generally correct--LPRs are entitled to due process rights unless they sign a waiver.
However the "reasonable doubt" rule does not apply to immigration proceedings. It is only good for criminal trials. The standard the government has to meet is much lower.
However the "reasonable doubt" rule does not apply to immigration proceedings. It is only good for criminal trials. The standard the government has to meet is much lower.
rdmo said:OK, let me clear this for you. When you become a resident, you are part of this country. You are not a visitor anymore. When a tourist tries to get in the US with a fake visa/passport, sure, they can be sent back to their country on the spot, they have NO immigration rights whatsoever in the US. But us on the other hand, we are legal residents, taxpayers, and as such are entilted to some rights...like presumption of innocence!
Trying to get into the US with fake visa/passport, that's breaking the immigration law, and CBP officers have the authority to enforce the law and deport that individual to their country of origin. But don't forget we are talking about someone who is a legal PR, who went back to his/her COP, came back and was not allowed in. Where is this person breaking the law? To do this, the officer at the POE would have to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that this person commited fraud (lied) in his application for asylum/adjustment of status. Fraud is a federal offense (a crime), and as such has to be tried and proved in a court of law.
The only way for someone to be deported on the spot is if they sign a form relinquishing all their rights, and basically abandon willingly and voluntarily their status. I guess if an officer pushes your buttons often and long enough, they can scare you into signing anything....and before you realize it you are on a plane back to your country!
thankful said:However the "reasonable doubt" rule does not apply to immigration proceedings. It is only good for criminal trials. The standard the government has to meet is much lower.
I agree, this is also what I was trying to say.
rdmo said:OK, let me clear this for you. When you become a resident, you are part of this country. You are not a visitor anymore. When a tourist tries to get in the US with a fake visa/passport, sure, they can be sent back to their country on the spot, they have NO immigration rights whatsoever in the US. But us on the other hand, we are legal residents, taxpayers, and as such are entilted to some rights...like presumption of innocence!
Trying to get into the US with fake visa/passport, that's breaking the immigration law, and CBP officers have the authority to enforce the law and deport that individual to their country of origin. But don't forget we are talking about someone who is a legal PR, who went back to his/her COP, came back and was not allowed in. Where is this person breaking the law? To do this, the officer at the POE would have to prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that this person commited fraud (lied) in his application for asylum/adjustment of status. Fraud is a federal offense (a crime), and as such has to be tried and proved in a court of law.
The only way for someone to be deported on the spot is if they sign a form relinquishing all their rights, and basically abandon willingly and voluntarily their status. I guess if an officer pushes your buttons often and long enough, they can scare you into signing anything....and before you realize it you are on a plane back to your country!
Agree. As an asylee you have already established that "it is more likely than not that you will be prosecuted in your home country." US policy remains that it would generally not send you to your home country in case of that. Even after 9-11, the government makes harder for aliens to become an asylee, but they haven't changed anything for existing asylees.
As I note the possible issuance of USCIS memo, I don't think the government will go after asylees in greater detail. The goverment is currently focusing on terrorists and criminals and will continue to do so. Plus, every asylum case is different and I just don't see how the hell the government will examine everyone about it. However it probably won't prevent them from doing this for a few asylees to quiet the media. Like the traffic ticket, as long as they don't catch you, you are good....
ayyubov said:First of all I wasn;t talking about permanent residents only but generally. The subject of discussion was if IO reside in airports and can deport people and you agreed in your post that it's possible. Second of all you all don't know either what could happen if asylee PR would return from COP and tell IO at the point of entry that it was a pleasure trip. That PR could easily be detained. Like I mentioned before I recently have been questioned by Custom and Border patrole at JFK about my trip and why I don't have a passport (they wanted to trick me).
False. The only people that can be deported are people with no imigration benefits, such as visitors and illegal immigrants. If you have any sort of document that allows you to reside in the US, you have the right to be heard by a judge before being deported, for whatever reason.
thankful said:However the "reasonable doubt" rule does not apply to immigration proceedings. It is only good for criminal trials. The standard the government has to meet is much lower.
False. Then explain to me why people who are denied asylum in first place, are allowed to appeal, time and time again all the way up until they get a final decision...because of reasonable doubt.
I mean, even if a PR committed a terrorist act of the worst kind, do you really think they'd tell him:"sorry sir, we can't let you in, you have to go back to your country" Hell no!!!
Please, please, you guys have to chill! You are Legal Permanent Residents...that's got to mean something!
You need to learn how to read what people wrote and not make unsupported inferences.
Also please do not use legal terms unless you understand fully their meaning.
Do you even know what "reasaonble doubt" is? Maybe you should take about an hour or so to research that term. It would be profitable for you to compare that term to things like "clear and convincing standard" and "a preponderance evidence."
Then please come back to this chat board and cite one authority applying the reasonable doubt standard to immigration proceedings.
Again do not use legal terms until you understand them.
Also please do not use legal terms unless you understand fully their meaning.
Do you even know what "reasaonble doubt" is? Maybe you should take about an hour or so to research that term. It would be profitable for you to compare that term to things like "clear and convincing standard" and "a preponderance evidence."
Then please come back to this chat board and cite one authority applying the reasonable doubt standard to immigration proceedings.
Again do not use legal terms until you understand them.
rdmo said:False. Then explain to me why people who are denied asylum in first place, are allowed to appeal, time and time again all the way up until they get a final decision...because of reasonable doubt.
I mean, even if a PR committed a terrorist act of the worst kind, do you really think they'd tell him:"sorry sir, we can't let you in, you have to go back to your country" Hell no!!!
Please, please, you guys have to chill! You are Legal Permanent Residents...that's got to mean something!
Chill dude!!!
If I was a lawyer, I'd be charging you by the hour to read what I wrote...I'm not playing lawyer, I'm just telling my side of the story, and that is what I've been told by MY lawyers...so there.... you are entitled to your own opinion, and that's fine by me! I don't think I have the last word, and certainly hope you don't think the same, everybody in here knows nobody knows the whole truth...this place is about clean, honest, sincere, friendly discussion....but some people just like scaring others, as if we have no rights simply because we were once asylees, and it just isn't like that. We do have rights and I want to make sure we all know it! Take it easy buddy!
If I was a lawyer, I'd be charging you by the hour to read what I wrote...I'm not playing lawyer, I'm just telling my side of the story, and that is what I've been told by MY lawyers...so there.... you are entitled to your own opinion, and that's fine by me! I don't think I have the last word, and certainly hope you don't think the same, everybody in here knows nobody knows the whole truth...this place is about clean, honest, sincere, friendly discussion....but some people just like scaring others, as if we have no rights simply because we were once asylees, and it just isn't like that. We do have rights and I want to make sure we all know it! Take it easy buddy!
thankful said:Then please come back to this chat board and cite one authority applying the reasonable doubt standard to immigration proceedings
Read this, just for fun... CLUE: page 2, item 6a.
rdmo said:Chill dude!!!
If I was a lawyer, I'd be charging you by the hour to read what I wrote...I'm not playing lawyer, I'm just telling my side of the story, and that is what I've been told by MY lawyers...so there.... you are entitled to your own opinion, and that's fine by me! I don't think I have the last word, and certainly hope you don't think the same, everybody in here knows nobody knows the whole truth...this place is about clean, honest, sincere, friendly discussion....but some people just like scaring others, as if we have no rights simply because we were once asylees, and it just isn't like that. We do have rights and I want to make sure we all know it! Take it easy buddy!
For a non legal source see this link: http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2005/12/15/news/local/terror1216.txt
noting that "Deportation requires a lower standard of proof in immigration court — ”clear, convincing evidence” rather than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard required for a criminal prosecution."
thankful said:For a non legal source see this link: http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2005/12/15/news/local/terror1216.txt
noting that "Deportation requires a lower standard of proof in immigration court — ”clear, convincing evidence” rather than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard required for a criminal prosecution."
Thankful,
Are you sitting in the U.S. Supreme Court? I guess you are just a janitator. Don't copy what is in the bathroom to this board.