I am trying to meet the transmission requirements to gain derivative citizenship through my father who was a US Citizen. The US Embassy will not accept his SSN records, even though it details all the employers he was employed with in the periods I need information for. My father left the US and lived in the UK with my mother for approx. 10 months in 1965 (which was after my birth) yet the passport agency do not hold any records on my father. I have been advised that, as he left the country, the determining factor in proving the transmission requirements is providing his passport records. My father did not use any other names and I have provided his SSN to aid the search but the passport office cannot find any records relating to him. This will in effect mean that my application for a passport will be turned down. I have also provided some school records for my father as well as employment records for a 9 year period. These are not being taken into consideration as although he was employed in the US, it has been stated that this doesn't necessarily mean he was physically present, although some of his jobs, such as taxi driver, deli assistant, hospital worker etc. would not include work overseas. I am now trying to obtain his Elementary School Records and information from the UKBA as to when he entered and left the UK. I have also been advised that there will be no border patrol records available for this period. I am at a loss as what do do next as my father is now deceased. Is there any other way of determining my father's physical presence in the US - which was on a continual basis from the late 30's to early 60's. He did not attend college but I am trying to find out if I can obtain details of any medical practiotioners he attended during his childhood. Any help or guidance would be very much appreciated as this has been a very long and arduous process and I don't wan't to fall at the last hurdle. Thank you so much for any help you can give - best wishes,
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US Passport Office don't hold my father's passport records although he did have one - what can I do?
- Thread starter Mich111
- Start date
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
How old are you? When you were born affects your options.
I presume you are outside the US?
I presume you are outside the US?
At least 45 years old from the OP's post. It appears OP was born in UK sometime in the early 60's.How old are you?
Was your dad born in US? If so, do you not have his US birth certificate?I am trying to meet the transmission requirements to gain derivative citizenship through my father who was a US Citizen.
If he was a naturalized citizen, do you not have his naturalization certificate?
Are you currently in the U.S. or abroad? If in the U.S., if is better to file an N-600 with USCIS. They are better at evaluating evidence and when you apply, if they need more evidence from you they are better equipped and better informed to guide you in obtaining appropriate evidence. USCIS is better at evaluating the evidence in citizenship claims. They have extensive experience and very informative RFE's (Requests for Evidence). The State Department is the best source to guide one in obtaining documentary evidence in foreign countries but USCIS is better at guiding you in U.S. documents.
One of the primary documents that is accepted for a passport to be issued is the Certificate of Citizenship issued by USCIS when they approve an N-600.
In the U.S., Census records, school records, medical records, church records, marriage and birth certificates of parents and siblings, newpaper articles, court documents (even prison records), SS records which can be coupled with other employment records are all taken into account by USCIS. As a last resort, affidavits from witnesses and original witness testimony at an interview will all be considered by USCIS.
Passport application filed inside the U.S. do not afford interviews and the Passport Specialists are not trained as well in evaluating evidence. USCIS adjudicators on the other hand are highly trained and experienced in interviewing witnesses and evaluating documentary evidence and are guided by over 50 years worth of Administrative Precedent Decisions in immigration and nationality law interpretation.
Lastly, the Passport Agency under authority delegated by the Secretary of State does not include even making the determination of a person's citizenship for a person in the United States. Passports issued inside the U.S. rely on issuance to KNOWN citizens with U.S. birth certs (and rarely, secondary evidence like basptismal certificates and hospital birth records), Ceriticates of Naturalization, Certificates of Citizenship, and FS-240, Consular Report of Birth...(which is issued by DOS but only abroad to a minor) or a U.S. Passport previously issued either in the U.S. or abroad. IF you had obtained a U.S. passport abroad, the Passport Specialist would have been better trained in the adjudication of this type of case and would likely have held an interview.
INA 104 [8 USC 1104]. Powers and duties of Secretary of State
(a) Powers and duties
The Secretary of State shall be charged with the administration and
the enforcement of the provisions of this chapter and all other
immigration and nationality laws relating to (1) the powers, duties, and
functions of diplomatic and consular officers of the United States,
except those powers, duties, and functions conferred upon the consular
officers relating to the granting or refusal of visas; (2) the powers,
duties, and functions of the Administrator; and (3) the determination of
nationality of a person not in the United States. He shall establish
such regulations; prescribe such forms of reports, entries and other
papers; issue such instructions; and perform such other acts as he deems
necessary for carrying out such provisions. He is authorized to confer
or impose upon any employee of the United States, with the consent of
the head of the department or independent establishment under whose
jurisdiction the employee is serving, any of the powers, functions, or
duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued
thereunder upon officers or employees of the Department of State or of
the American Foreign Service.
**************
One of the primary documents that is accepted for a passport to be issued is the Certificate of Citizenship issued by USCIS when they approve an N-600.
In the U.S., Census records, school records, medical records, church records, marriage and birth certificates of parents and siblings, newpaper articles, court documents (even prison records), SS records which can be coupled with other employment records are all taken into account by USCIS. As a last resort, affidavits from witnesses and original witness testimony at an interview will all be considered by USCIS.
Passport application filed inside the U.S. do not afford interviews and the Passport Specialists are not trained as well in evaluating evidence. USCIS adjudicators on the other hand are highly trained and experienced in interviewing witnesses and evaluating documentary evidence and are guided by over 50 years worth of Administrative Precedent Decisions in immigration and nationality law interpretation.
Lastly, the Passport Agency under authority delegated by the Secretary of State does not include even making the determination of a person's citizenship for a person in the United States. Passports issued inside the U.S. rely on issuance to KNOWN citizens with U.S. birth certs (and rarely, secondary evidence like basptismal certificates and hospital birth records), Ceriticates of Naturalization, Certificates of Citizenship, and FS-240, Consular Report of Birth...(which is issued by DOS but only abroad to a minor) or a U.S. Passport previously issued either in the U.S. or abroad. IF you had obtained a U.S. passport abroad, the Passport Specialist would have been better trained in the adjudication of this type of case and would likely have held an interview.
INA 104 [8 USC 1104]. Powers and duties of Secretary of State
(a) Powers and duties
The Secretary of State shall be charged with the administration and
the enforcement of the provisions of this chapter and all other
immigration and nationality laws relating to (1) the powers, duties, and
functions of diplomatic and consular officers of the United States,
except those powers, duties, and functions conferred upon the consular
officers relating to the granting or refusal of visas; (2) the powers,
duties, and functions of the Administrator; and (3) the determination of
nationality of a person not in the United States. He shall establish
such regulations; prescribe such forms of reports, entries and other
papers; issue such instructions; and perform such other acts as he deems
necessary for carrying out such provisions. He is authorized to confer
or impose upon any employee of the United States, with the consent of
the head of the department or independent establishment under whose
jurisdiction the employee is serving, any of the powers, functions, or
duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued
thereunder upon officers or employees of the Department of State or of
the American Foreign Service.
**************
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
At least 45 years old from the OP's post. It appears OP was born in UK sometime in the early 60's.
OK, I missed that when I first read it.
I think the embassy is being extra suspicious because it's so unusual for a 40something year old who lives outside the US to suddenly show up to claim US citizenship after not making such an attempt for the past 25+ years of adult life. So every bit of evidence is viewed with extreme skepticism.
Stanley Hermosillo
Registered Users (C)
It's outside their realm of comprehension/paradigm that a US citizen wouldn't want to declare citizenship ASAP, hence the scrutiny.
anxiouscdn2
Registered Users (C)
It's outside their realm of comprehension/paradigm that a US citizen wouldn't want to declare citizenship ASAP, hence the scrutiny.
Perhaps true, but from the point of view of the dual citizen, the desirability of claiming US citizenship depends a lot on their other citizenship. The OP is likely British. Even though Americans have a tendency to see ourselves as the envy of all the world, probably most Brits aren't pining to become Americans.
My grandfather was a native of a Commonwealth country who traveled the world as a young man and was for many years a gold miner in Alaska. During WWI he was drafted into the US army and made a US citizen. (In those days, as far as I can understand from family lore, official procedures were not as fussy as they are now!) Some years after the war, he returned to his homeland for family reasons and ended up marrying there, rather late in life, and fathering a family. He never returned to the US, but when he retired, he did appreciate his US veteran's pension.
According to the rules, my dad (now long retired himself) and his brother are actually US citizens. This possibility had never occurred to them until I moved to the US and thereby became acquainted with the rules. They don't have any interest in claiming their US citizenship, which as far as they're concerned would only have the effect of obliging them to file with the IRS. Neither of them has ever lived in the US. I suppose technically speaking they already are US citizens, but as we can see from this thread, might have a hard time proving it if they wanted to.
When I was filing N-400, I sighed over the question about whether either of my parents is a US citizen, then checked No. The alternative just seemed like it would be pointlessly and meaninglessly asking for trouble.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
It's outside their realm of comprehension/paradigm that a US citizen wouldn't want to declare citizenship ASAP, hence the scrutiny.
I think it's also that it goes against the spirit of the law for the embassy to confirm citizenship for someone in the OP's situation. The condition of requiring the parent to have X years living in the US before the birth is to avoid the granting of citizenship to people who have no meaningful ties to the US. Somebody who has lived outside the US for their entire life of over 45 years and never previously attempted to claim citizenship is not going to be seen as having any US ties that would be jeopardized if they're not granted citizenship, so they're not going to issue the passport unless the evidence is so strong that they are forced to issue it. They likely would have viewed the situation more favorably if the OP had settled down in the US after entering with a visa and was fighting deportation for overstaying, or had left the US (voluntarily or not) after several years living here and was trying to return.
On topic: http://www.justice.gov/eoir/vll/intdec/vol15/2395.pdf pay close attention to the old law, section 1993 of the Revised Statutes is the oldest statute aside from the U.S. Constitution itself, that still has effects even today.