US citizens deported

[WhichWay2Go]

Why would it be ICE's responsibility to prove he is U.S Citizen ? Its because they are the ones who catch the fish and have responsibility of deporting illegal aliens.

Absrao and others,

You seem to be ignoring the fact he claimed to be Mexican many times and also in signed statements.

Are you suggesting that when someone states they are Mexican or whatever, it should be ICE's responsibility to make sure they are not US Citizens just in case they were lying when they signed the paper stating Mexican. That work load would never end.

c) All citizens should carry certain burn mark on their skin -

Hmmmm. Barcode maybe? Given that I will be able to vote, I will not be voting for you for President come the next election.

 

[absrao]

Absrao and others,

You seem to be ignoring the fact he claimed to be Mexican many times and also in signed statements.

Are you suggesting that when someone states they are Mexican or whatever, it should be ICE's responsibility to make sure they are not US Citizens just in case they were lying when they signed the paper stating Mexican. That work load would never end.



Hmmmm. Barcode maybe? Given that I will be able to vote, I will not be voting for you for President come the next election.

If someone states repeatedly that they are Mexican and are in good health, I have no issue deporting them. But the guy also claimed to be U.S.Citizen. Further it was evident that the guy was mentally ill. And further there were indications that FBI background check came back with result that indicated he was U.S.Citizen.

Conversation in this case went something like:

Agent walks into the cell holding the guy.
Agent: Listen buddy, I know you want to go home as soon as possible. You have to tell us where you are from so we can get you there safely.
Guy: Silent, looking around in a funny way.
Agent: Listen, you got to tell us. Are you from Mexico ? Do you have family in Mexico ?
Guy: Again, looks around, nods head.
Agent: Are you from Mexico ?
Guy: Yes
(few times over)
Agent: Alright, if you say so, lets get this over, sign here and here and you will be on your way.
Guy: Signs doc.

(similar conversation happens again after few days and this time Agent asks if he is U.S.Citizen (coz agent got some info) and Guy replied Yes).

Many folks confess to have committed a crime, but we never send them to hole or hang them without due process. As it is, there is no legal representation at these detention places, so ICE has additional responsibility of making sure no citizen is deported. This happened even after many cases of citizens getting deported came to light.

You dont have to stress yourself in not voting for me in coming elections , I am not eligible to run for Presidency anyway, thank god .

 

[WhichWay2Go]

You dont have to stress yourself in not voting for me in coming elections , I am not eligible to run for Presidency

Ooops, I forgot about that. Good thing the IO didn't ask about "who can run for President" That was in the old test but I don't think it was in the new one. Yeah, I studied the old one too, just in case.

This thread is getting too Political so I will be bowing out now. But in closing, I will endorse Sarrebal's views, we think alike it seems.

Too many decisions being expounded with too few concrete facts. When the only side of the story to go on is what is written in the newspaper it gets flaky. Not enough facts for me but IMHO, most people here are rushing to judgment

So he/she who has never made a mistake, raise their hand.

 

[Bobsmyth]

Something is seriously wrong when an agency (ICE) has the power to detain US citizens for several months while it decides whether they are in fact citizens, US born or naturalized. I understand they have a job to do, but it shouldn't take more than 24-48 hrs to make that determination. Unfortunately, it's probably going to take a major lawsuit for the agency to realize that they can't simply detain citizens for undetermined amounts of time while they take their time to find out their identity.

 

[Semi-conc'nt 04]

I think we all agree that people in charge that day should lose their job, I think.
But what else?

No, I don't seek their termination. I would like to see 'em INCARCERATED; else, CASTRATED!!! A Govt. job ought not to be a free pass - to violating citizen's basic rights!!! If you can't do the job, don't get in, don't don the uniform!!!

 

[Jackolantern]

Admittedly he is probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but why would it be ICE's responsibility to prove he is a US Citizen and not deport him.

It is their responsibility to do due diligence to check for citizenship. Deporting a US citizen is illegal and unconstitutional.

 

[Jackolantern]

Yes. The consulate should have seen the deportation check stop the Judge issued in the federal database and refer the case to the department.

I'm sure they saw it, but they also saw greater evidence showing that he was indeed a citizen and therefore his deportation was wrong, so they RIGHTFULLY issued his passport.

 

[spiderman03]

This is scary thing. Sad that Obama can change this whole system with one executive order (no need for any legislation because the law always says that citizens cannot be deported) but he won't do it for some strange reason. It just takes a simple memo from ICE headquarters. Something like,

1) Any person claiming citizenship/LPR during ICE raids or arrests should be given the opportunity to contact friends/family or anyone who can vouch for his/her status through acceptable documentation.

2) ICE agents should not intimidate the defendents into signing forms and use it as an excuse to deport ignorant citizens. If signing a form is a must, it must be done infront of a witness (government official independent of the ICE).

3) ICE is also required to contact various agencies to cross-check the claims of the defendant.

4) No authority except ICE can initiate deportation proceedings, taking the power away from local police and other law enforcement agencies who does these things often based on the ethnicity.


On the other hand there are many people living in this country who live in the pre-911 mode. It only takes three kinds of documents to prove forever that one is a born/naturalized CITIZEN.

1) Birth / Naturalization certificate
2) USA passport book
3) USA passport card (shape of a credit card that fits in a wallet)

No ICE agent will be able to legally claim that they made a mistake once any one of these documents are produced. Just keep the birth/naturalization certificate & US passport book at home and carry the US passport card in the wallet all the time. But many of these people (except the mentally ill) talk about the fee in getting these things but they don't mind gulping hundreds of dollars worth of beer in a week.

 

[new_LPR]

I agree with all those people who say ICE sometimes goes too far. I myself have been asked ridiculous qsns, have been sent to a room where everything was taken away and I was fingerprinted and have been asked to tell my life story - all those incidents have happened at different times.
I have had no arrests, no criminal records and no run in with law enforcements whatsoever - was never drunk and no issues - they still do those things.

Why?? Coz they are paranoid when they see a darker skinned man at POE. They are obviously not trained to be polite - they are rather told that do whatever they want to keep the country safe.

Once when I asked them why am I questioned, they cut me off and say "Sir , we dont have to let you in".
Is that the right way to treat a person???

If this thing happens to me in future, I will take their names and report to my congressman.


They are there to see if you are legal - they can easily take fingerprints and see if there is a match. I know for several people including visitors they take fingerprints, but they never try to do a match.
Heck, they can even take your biometrics rather to prove who you are.

 

[new_LPR]

Love how you brought in your dark skin here. Why do they always show blacks pitching drugs, killing each other in the local news each night?

I didnt say I was black - but I am dark-er that caucasians ..like almost all Indians are.

 

[absrao]

This is scary thing. Sad that Obama can change this whole system with one executive order (no need for any legislation because the law always says that citizens cannot be deported) but he won't do it for some strange reason. It just takes a simple memo from ICE headquarters. Something like,

1) Any person claiming citizenship/LPR during ICE raids or arrests should be given the opportunity to contact friends/family or anyone who can vouch for his/her status through acceptable documentation.

2) ICE agents should not intimidate the defendents into signing forms and use it as an excuse to deport ignorant citizens. If signing a form is a must, it must be done infront of a witness (government official independent of the ICE).

3) ICE is also required to contact various agencies to cross-check the claims of the defendant.

4) No authority except ICE can initiate deportation proceedings, taking the power away from local police and other law enforcement agencies who does these things often based on the ethnicity.


On the other hand there are many people living in this country who live in the pre-911 mode. It only takes three kinds of documents to prove forever that one is a born/naturalized CITIZEN.

1) Birth / Naturalization certificate
2) USA passport book
3) USA passport card (shape of a credit card that fits in a wallet)

No ICE agent will be able to legally claim that they made a mistake once any one of these documents are produced. Just keep the birth/naturalization certificate & US passport book at home and carry the US passport card in the wallet all the time. But many of these people (except the mentally ill) talk about the fee in getting these things but they don't mind gulping hundreds of dollars worth of beer in a week.

Well said, except the last paragraph. Its sad to see situation degenerating to the level where citizens dont understand their rights and seek to carry proof of citizenship with them.

And 911 has nothing to do with any of this. There is no justification in agencies doing these things in the name of 911. As I mentioned earlier, the crooks who did the s*** were all legally present and had proper visas. Its shame that citizens think the solution to overstepping authority is to carry proof of citizenship in person and give up the rights and freedom they had.

 

[Jackolantern]

I doubt that as the passport was issued in 1 day, according to the time line posted. They probably took his words for granted.

They don't need more than a day to know that he is a citizen if the evidence is readily available in the relevant databases (which it was, but ICE refused to see it).