Trump attacks Diversity Visa program
- Thread starter rafi-cairo
- Start date
I also have a masters and actually was on an HB-1 (barely got it), but the green card is infinitely harder to get, almost decade in waiting time, complex and very expensive for employers, and the whole situation puts you in a nightmarish limbo that hacks your life away. Only ones it is easy for is rich companies like accounting and software and all that. Let's just say that if all my hypothetical "merit-based" points for America could be used for Canada's system (which actually has one), forget citizenship, I could be applying to be their prime minister by now. People who aren't in the rut don't understand how unfair and absurd and nightmarish America's legal process is. So that's why it really irks me when there is talk about it being/becoming "merit-based," because again the only thing it helps is people in very select few positions.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
You seem to have a problem with the H1 visa system in particular rather than with a merit-based system in general, judging by your comments about America vs Canada.
Widespread problems with H1 have already been acknowledged, including abuse of the system which is why people like you seem to find it hard to convert to a green card. (I personally know people from non accounting non software smaller companies who have got a green card within a couple of years though, so your issue is not universal, obviously I don’t know your circumstances or why it was so hard for you.). But: H1 is not initially designed as a pathway to a green card; it allows you to apply for one but is not designed for that purpose - it is a non-immigrant visa. As such you can’t automatically expect a GC. I’d assume that by contrast, a skills based immigration visa would have a clear pathway, just like the current ones for nurses do, where you get an immigrant visa and not just a work visa like H1. Hopefully if they design the system properly you’ll be able to apply for a skills based immigrant visa without the problems associated with H1.
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SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Update: I checked with a nurse I know re the exact way they got in and it was via an EB3, which is an employment based immigrant visa for particular skilled workers. I guess expanding this kind of visa (some categories have a long backlog apparently, not sure of details) rather than just increasing non-immigrant H visas would be a more logical way to implement a proper skills-based system.
The problem with h1 Visa, it's a lottery in itself since demand largely exceeds the number of visas available, and it largely benefits IT outsourcing companies and Indian candidates (mostly for junior positions).
A point-based system is fairer in my opinion, with no lotteries and no sponsorships.
A point-based system is fairer in my opinion, with no lotteries and no sponsorships.
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For me, without DV, i would have not thought of immigrating to the USA, even if my education and work experience are more than qualified. Mainly because it is hard to find direct employers that would want to hire overseas people directly (and even with GC, getting a job offer [not just interviews] is still hard ). People that i know that got a GC through their employers are usually from H1B and they got the job offers with H1B right after they completed their degree/master/PhD.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
At this point because of where I live (Bay Area) I know a number of people who got green cards through H, L and O visas, all of which are non-immigrant visas, but there were quite a few people I knew at high school who went into medical fields and all those who wanted to emigrate to the US found it pretty easy to do, whether right after graduation or whether after working at practices or hospitals in our home country for a while. I contacted one yesterday (they all know each other obviously from school) and it seems almost all got employment-based green cards with no need to go through a non-immigrant visa first. I also know a lot - a LOT - of people who emigrated to Australia, Canada and the UK under the various points based systems. The point being that there are many ways to get skilled immigrants in, whether a points system or whether expanding the kind of visa medical employees have found to other fields; I don’t know why people keep focusing on a broken H visa system in the context of skilled immigration when it isn’t even an immigrant visa. Logically (and I concede easily that the current administration is not terribly logical) the point of reforming would be to replace non-skilled immigrant visas with skills-based immigrant visas, not just taking DV and family visas away and then leaving people to rely on the existing deeply flawed H visa system.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Btw you say you never thought of immigrating to the US before - we had a family based petition in progress, but had also been talking to an employer who was keen to sponsor me on H1. We stopped talks after we realized the inherent problems with H1 for our family: that spouse wouldn’t automatically get a work permit, that it was very insecure being tied to the employer, and consequently a lack of being able to plan for the future that with a young school going family we didn’t find acceptable (worst case job doesn’t work out and have to move whole family back again, hugely disruptive). This is an example of how the existing system prevented a skilled immigrant (who by pure luck had other options). We would easily have gotten into any of Canada, Australia or (at that stage, I believe they changed the system later) the UK on their points systems, but none of those countries held attraction for us. If the US had had a points system then, or a more secure work visa, we would have immigrated aboit ten years ago already.
Is there an agreement between South-Africa and the US? Because my brother who works in a medical field,...gave up on his shot at a DV visa when he realized he had to go back to school for 2-3 years plus state exams plus 240k$ of debt (he already spent 8 years studying,...and didn't feel like going back to school and putting himself in debt). Not as easy as it seems in the medical field (unless there are agreements with certain countries or some sorts of special programs I'm unaware of).
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Man of Constant Sorrow
Member
Mini good news here 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-immigration-proposal-critics-left-right-210528690.html
It's the first time in a while that I read that Democrats strongly oppose the elimination of the diversity visa lottery. Hope they will not chicken out again. And hope DV program survives until that racist/bigot/chauvinist/put whatever you want here - is removed from the office.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-immigration-proposal-critics-left-right-210528690.html
It's the first time in a while that I read that Democrats strongly oppose the elimination of the diversity visa lottery. Hope they will not chicken out again. And hope DV program survives until that racist/bigot/chauvinist/put whatever you want here - is removed from the office.
Mini good news here
https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-immigration-proposal-critics-left-right-210528690.html
It's the first time in a while that I read that Democrats strongly oppose the elimination of the diversity visa lottery. Hope they will not chicken out again. And hope DV program survives until that racist/bigot/chauvinist/put whatever you want here - is removed from the office.
Congressional Black Caucus are the only ones who really defend DV lottery,...since it's the only way for Africans to move to the US. The rest of democrats are more interested in the latino vote,...so they will galdly ditch lottery visa if it means amnesty for illegal immigrants. Africans and Eastern-Europeans don't have much political muscle to lobby the senate and the congress. So the lottery visa is something democrats are ready to give away as a consolation prize to Republicans. It's all about politics.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
No, but apparently (at least back then, I don’t know anyone who’s done this more recently** so not sure if it’s changed) SA medical graduates were highly regarded and in demand. Everyone did have to write US exams in their field as well, though, which takes a few years I believe for doctors, dentists etc. So they would usually do those (I think it was one level per year or something) while doing internship and early practice years, then move over. There were a couple who were offered positions right out of medical school, I’m not sure exactly how that worked with getting the US exams done.
So yes I can see your brother would need to do US exams, not sure why he would need to go back to school for a few years unless your home country qualifications are considered inferior (I’d be surprised if that were the case, there are medical practitioners from all over the world here) or where another $240k of debt would come from though.
** the nurse I mentioned in an earlier post did this last year though, so there definitely are medical personnel still able to get direct employment based visas. She did need to write US exams but it sounded much less onerous than the ones doctors etc have to do, and I think that she did what she needed within a year.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Agree. If they say they like it then the optics of giving it up in bargaining work better.
They also need to compromise though and reach a solution, just like the republicans do. The polls after the last shutdown showed a majority blamed the democrats, they can’t afford to keep shutting down the government if they don’t want to alienate their constituents. So both sides are starting out with what they want, recognizing it’s not what they’ll end up with. That’s how negotiations work. The only thing that has widespread bipartisan support right now is protection for DACA (yes, even among republicans, with the ironical exception of trump’s base) ... everything else is negotiable.
Many moroccan-trained doctors work in France and other european countries without any further education,...so my home-country qualifications are definitly not considered inferior, at least in europe. The US' 2-3 years programs are mandatory for all foreign-trained dentists (the exception is Canada, ....I think). And dental-schools in the US are very expensive, around 80k per year. More than worries about foreign qualifications,...these are restrictions imposed by College/association/union of physicians to restrict the access of foreigners in their field (and keep wages high). In France there are restrictions for foreign-trained dentists and specialists,....but not for general practitioners since they have a shortage of doctors in Hospitals' emergency departments and rural clinics. I also heard in the US,...foreign nurses had it easier than doctors because of shortage.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
I didn’t think it would be a qualifications issue. My cousin is a dentist, he came over to the US once a year for I think 3 years to write the US exams and then he got a California state license. He had been practicing back in SA while doing all this. He’s had his own practice here for years now. I don’t know if the requirements have changed since then but he didn’t have to attend a US dental school or anything like that.
Maybe things have changed,...but this is something we're sure about, since we gathered a lot of information for months when my brother got selected last year (his case number will go current next month,...but he didn't send ds260 and forgot about all the matter). If you got your degree from outside the US and Canada,...you need to enroll into an advanced standing program for foreign-trained dentists. No exception. Your cousin was lucky.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
Must have changed since then.
But...
Apparently there is an exception- Minnesota? Restricted at first but at least this way he’s earning salary rather than paying dental school fees?
1. NO ADDITIONAL EDUCATION REQUIRED
The only state that grants a US dental license without additional US training is Minnesota (MN). In 2008, the Minnesota Board of Dentistry developed considerations to enable qualified dentists from Non-Accredited dental schools to apply for Minnesota dental license. The Credentials Committee of the Board meets approximately every six weeks to review submitted materials on a first-come, first-served basis. If accepted, then the candidate can appear for the state clinical licensing exam and eventually the state license. A person licensed under this provision must practice for three years under the supervision of a Minnesota-licensed dentist who may limit the types of services authorized. At the end of the 3 year period, they will be eligible for an unrestricted dental license in Minnesota. Click here for more information.
SusieQQQ
Well-Known Member
FYI: California changed its rules in 2004 apparently,now you need to do 2 years of dental school in the US to get licensed there. My cousin moved in the late 1990s so yes I guess he got lucky.
We knew about the "Minnesota route", which sounds goods on paper but it's a bureaucratic nightmare and so extremely hard, few foreign dentists are known to have successfully gone through it. Foreign-trained dentists who don't want or can't afford going through an advanced standing program,....usually choose the "Florida route", BUT....to become dental hygienists (they only need to take an exam if they have a foreign dental degree). My brother wasn't ready to downgrade his status and become an assistant, even if they can earn up to 90k per year,...more than he can ever dream of in Morocco. He could also have chosen to step back for a couple of year, take a student loan (as a permanent resident, he would have right to it plus federal grants) and enroll in a 2 year program,.....but he just wasn't ready to make sacrifices even if the reward was worth it (average salary of a dentist in the US is 150.000$),....and maybe, just wasn't that excited to leave his "comfort zone" and move to another country (most likely). Some people by nature are not ambitious,...if they have a comfortable life, they won't trade stability for a bigger reward,...and that's something to be respected.
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