Travel to India: Catch 22 Situation

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pdfbills

New Member
Hi All,

It might sound like a stupid question, I have a couple of them.

I applied for N400... Fingerprinting done. Waiting for the Interview date to be scheduled as per update status on the 7/30/2013...
If my naturalization get completed by the time I want to travel to India. I will get US Passport and have to get visa for India. In order to get the visa you have to renunciate the Indian citizenship and that takes up to 15 business days (3 weeks). My questions is can I travel to India on Indian passport and come back Indian passport and renter us on us passport. Would I require to show a valid visa for US on Indian passport? When naturalization is complete do they take the valid GC back? How much time does it take to get the interview if applied to Phoenix center.

Can I get the Indian visa without the renunciation?

Any valid information will be appreciated

Thanks
 
Once you become US citizen you cannot use your Indian passport for travel. If you do what you suggested, you will be stopped at the immigration check in India since they will find out your US passport does not have a Indian visa or a entry stamp.

Your GC has to be surrendered to USCIS when you take oath.
 
Passport

I meant entering India on Indian passport and leaving on Indian passport. Enter US passport. Asking al these questions the way Indian offices work they are f*d up. The consulates don't have the complete information on the processes. You can't get the Indian visa without renunciation. They could have made it simple apply for visa and renunciation. Receipt of renunciation could be used for supporting the visa application. And then they outsource everything. Outsourcing looks good if the processes are streamlined and effective.

Thanks
 
Your response is confusing. If you try to leave India with Indian passport, immigration will expect to see a US visa which you won't have. If you show your US passport, it won't have a Indian visa or an entry stamp. Either case you are screwed.
 
pdfbills said:
I meant entering India on Indian passport and leaving on Indian passport.
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For the flight which departs India, they won't let you board it with an Indian passport which doesn't have a visa or green card or with it. They'll demand that you show a valid entry document for the US, and the only thing you'll have for that is your US passport.
 
When you try entering India with your Indian Passport, they will see you had no US visa on it.Next question is how where you in USA. To hide your US citizenship, you will lie you are on GC. They will ask for your Green Card. Which you will not have. You are straight away locked up and you have tell the truth that you are US Citizen. You will be deported pronto and your scheme will never work.
 
You cannot legally travel on an Indian passport the moment you become a USC because technically the India does not allow dual citizenship and by becoming a USC, you have given up your Indian citizenship. The fact that the India forces you to pay to cancel your passport and renounce your citizenship is a moneymaking scam but one you have to do, unfortunately. If you ever travel on your Indian passport after you become a USC, it will lead to issues when you try to get a visa or OCI for India. They will fine you heavily or possibly deny your request.

Remember that you only become a USC after taking the oath of allegiance at the naturalization ceremony. Between your citizenship interview and the naturalization ceremony, you are still an Indian citizen and can travel on your Indian passport and GC. (However, some places allow you to take the oath directly after passing your citizenship interview). Assuming you pass the citizenship interview and get an oath date, you may be able to defer the oath date if you need to travel to India within that timeframe.
 
This will not work. If you want to travel before you officially renounce Indian citizenship and apply for a visa, you're SOOL. So, do NOT plan travel that way. You and every other person of Indian origin know that it is the job of agencies of the government of India to make the lives of its people as hard as possible, for as high a fee as they can charge as possible.

Renounce your citizenship, get a visa or OCI, and then go. The questions asked at Indian immigration to Indian citizens are more invasive than those asked to foreign citizens, and you will be caught.
 
The only way that comes to my mind how this would be feasible is that you travel through a third country, i.e:

-> you fly from the U.S. to a third country and upon arrival you present your U.S. passport -> then you take a flight to India and you show your Indian passport at check-in -> in India, you just show your Indian passport
 
Hannah7 said:
The only way that comes to my mind how this would be feasible is that you travel through a third country, i.e:

-> you fly from the U.S. to a third country and upon arrival you present your U.S. passport -> then you take a flight to India and you show your Indian passport at check-in -> in India, you just show your Indian passport
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Let's repeat the line. It is illegal to use the Indian passport this way and so such ideas should not even be entertained. Even if one is able to deviously enter and leave India this way, eventually when you need a visa or OCI using your US passport, you will get caught out because Customs/Immigration in India is now computerized and they will easily know that you used your Indian passport after becoming a USC.
 
I am not sure about Indian law.
US law allows you to have Indian passport and use if for travel purposes - showing it to airline or to foreign authorities. US law requires you:
1. When you depart US - to have a valid US passport
2. When you enter US, clearly to identify yourself as a US citizen. You cannot identify yourself as a foreign citizen or show a foreign passport when entering US - to US immigration officials.
3. You are not required by US law to have any Indian stamps in your US passport after a visit to India
 
raevsky said:
I am not sure about Indian law.
US law allows you to have Indian passport and use if for travel purposes - showing it to airline or to foreign authorities. US law requires you:
1. When you depart US - to have a valid US passport
2. When you enter US, clearly to identify yourself as a US citizen. You cannot identify yourself as a foreign citizen or show a foreign passport when entering US - to US immigration officials.
3. You are not required by US law to have any Indian stamps in your US passport after a visit to India
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You are missing the point here. OP is talking about Indian immigration law, not US law since he cannot get an Indian visa in time for his travel.
 
raevsky said:
I am not sure about Indian law.
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Indian law, as clearly stated a couple of times above, says it's illegal for a former Indian citizen who has acquired a foreign citizenship, to use his/her Indian passport after acquiring that new citizenship. Why is this important for the former Indian citizen? Well, if they want to get a visa to enter India (and they definitely will want this sooner or later), they will need to show proof of their cancelled Indian passport and the process to getting the passport cancelled will uncover any illegal use of the Indian passport. This leads to heavy fines and possible denial of visa.
 
JPBoston said:
Indian law, as clearly stated a couple of times above, says it's illegal for a former Indian citizen who has acquired a foreign citizenship, to use his/her Indian passport after acquiring that new citizenship.
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I'm not one to comment on Indian law--as I'm not from India and have no association with India--but I thought I'd read elsewhere--and recently--that there was a grace period of 90 days after US naturalization during which the old Indian passport could still be used.
 
CalGreenCard said:
I'm not one to comment on Indian law--as I'm not from India and have no association with India--but I thought I'd read elsewhere--and recently--that there was a grace period of 90 days after US naturalization during which the old Indian passport could still be used.
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There has been some confusion on this and it is typical of the Indian Govt to state things vaguely and not clarify what they meant. My suspicion is that they expect you to get your Indian passport cancelled within three months of acquiring your new non-Indian citizenship. The Indian Constitution is clear that you are no longer a citizen if you obtain another country's citizenship because the Constitution does not allow for dual citizenship. By extension of this, your Indian passport is no longer valid for legal travel as an Indian when you acquire a foreign citizenship.
 
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Hi JP,

Thanks for your clarifying comments.
This is an interesting topic. I am trying to figure out the fastest way to take the oath and get back to India.

I understand that once you get US citizenship, you can no longer enter India on Indian passport.

1. Technically when does one become US citizen : after taking the oath or after getting the US passport ?
2. Can one travel to India on Indian passport after the oath but before applying for US passport and then, apply for the US passport and PIO card when he is in India ?
3. If one applies for US passport in US after taking the oath, how quickly can he get the US passport and PIO ? Do you have to get the Indian passport renunciation certificate before you can get the PIO card ? How fast can you get the PIO card in the New York area ?

Thanks for your help.
 
1. You are a US citizen the moment you complete taking your oath at the naturalization ceremony. Getting a US passport can only be done after you have become a US citizen.

2. Based on the answer 1 above, you cannot legally travel on your Indian passport after taking the oath because you are no longer an Indian citizen at this point. This is where all that fines and issues come into play if you did use your Indian passport. The thing to also remember is when you take the naturalization oath, you have to turn in your GC anyway.

3. You can expedite getting your US passport but the bottleneck is getting your former Indian passport cancelled and the surrender certificate business all done. I think there are some delays now since they switched application processing vendors from Travisa to BLS. If you have urgency in being in India on a specific date soon, I think you can request a deferral of your oath date (assuming you pass the citizenship interview) and that may help your cause.
 
madh4 said:
When you try entering India with your Indian Passport, they will see you had no US visa on it.Next question is how where you in USA. To hide your US citizenship, you will lie you are on GC. They will ask for your Green Card. Which you will not have. You are straight away locked up and you have tell the truth that you are US Citizen. You will be deported pronto and your scheme will never work.
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I totally agree with madh4.

I know of a case where someone tried this. Immigration at India asked for return tickets and checked Indain PP to see US visa status/GC. On telling the USC status there was threat of arrest.
Anyway, even if you are not arrested, this would cost you $250 more during renunciation of Indain citizenship. Every such trip is $250 to max of $2500.

BTW, you can send application for renunciation and visa application (or IOC app) in the same package.

Good luck.
 
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Hi All, how's everyone doing? Long time no see (at least for me) ...

One option which OP may be able to use is to not worry about PIO/OCI but just take an entry visa to get to India. File the OCI while in US and then return to US for the OCI stamping. Or file the OCI from India itself. Not sure what are the timelines for Entry visa and I presume it required renunciation, but I think both entry/renunciation can be done together rather than sequentially.

Answer to another question - you can get US passport in 1-2 days if you plan it well. Take an appointment at passport agency same day as oath or next day of oath and its not too hard. If you are really in hurry which implies you do not have much business (work) in US, travel to passport agency / outsourcing company (travisa I think) and save yourself a day or two mailing each side.

Do note entry visa does not authorize you to work in India, in case that is needed.

I am not up to date on the latest, just came here on a whim, but I recall someone doing something similar to what I described maybe a year back.
 
Welcome back, sanjoseaug20!

Doesn't even the entry visa for current USCs/former Indian citizens require proof of renunciation/surrender certificate/passport cancellation?
 
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