Traffic tickets and naturalization (threads merged)

Traffic citations and N-400

Hi all:

My wife and I are getting ready to apply for citizenship, now that we have had our GC for 4 yrs 10 mo.

Between us, we have collected about 6 tickets over the years (none exceeding $500), and since we do not recall specific date, location etc of the citations, we called up DMV.

DMV said that there is nothing on my wife's record, and there was one citation on my record from 11 years ago. They gave me a number to call and get it off my record. I did so, and the DMV told me that this citation too will be removed from my record in 4-6 weeks.

My questions are:

1) Since both of us now will have clean driving records, do we still need to answer "Yes" to the question about citations in the N-400.

2) If we have to answer "Yes", since DMV does not have the records anymore, can we just list approximate dates on N-400?
 
tsgtsg said:
Thank you - I was looking for a reply to this same question!
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USCIS is a service supposed to help us get citizenship not prevent us from getting the citizenship. Otherwise why don't it shut itself down and stop
immigration and naturalization. So we should trust USCIS to be reasonable and I believe that is the case for most of USCIS staff most of the time.
 
WBH said:
I think it should be OK. First, USCIS own instructions says one does not need
to provide documentation for traffic violations for which fined is below $ 500.
Second, if there is no national standard format for local courts to provide documents,
then the USCIS should just accept whatever local courts
provide and trust authenticty of these documents. Otherwise what can applicants
do? The burden of proof is on applicants but the burden should be reasonable.
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That is all 99% of traffic courts will provide you with for noncriminal violations and USCIS expects this. It's fine. If it were a misdemeanor (DUI etc.) then it might be a different story, but it's not.
 
aosing said:
That is all 99% of traffic courts will provide you with for noncriminal violations and USCIS expects this. It's fine. If it were a misdemeanor (DUI etc.) then it might be a different story, but it's not.
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I do think if thd DUI happned many years ago and you could not get hold
of court documents, USCIS would possible stop insisting upon seeing such
documents.
 
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gc-despo said:
1) Since both of us now will have clean driving records, do we still need to answer "Yes" to the question about citations in the N-400.
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You can go either way. Technically speaking a speeding ticket is considered a "citation". So in response to that question about "ever being...cited", you could interpret that to require a 'Yes' response to the question. Others on this forum, myself included, have chosen to answer 'No' to the question using the rationale that minor traffic offenses (under $500, with no drugs or alcohol involved) do not need to be disclosed.

gc-despo said:
2) If we have to answer "Yes", since DMV does not have the records anymore, can we just list approximate dates on N-400?
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If you choose to answer 'Yes', you may receive a yellow RFE letter before your interview letter asking you to bring all relevant information about how your "arrest", "citation", etc. was resolved. So in this case, you could probably bring a sheet of paper with the approximate dates, the approximate fines, and information about how those tickets were resolved.

I answered No on the form, but told the IO at the interview when she got to that question about a couple of speeding tickets. She asked if they involved drugs or alcohol and I said no. She said the tickets were not an issue and she moved on.
 
WBH said:
USCIS is a service supposed to help us get citizenship not prevent us from getting the citizenship. Otherwise why don't it shut itself down and stop
immigration and naturalization. So we should trust USCIS to be reasonable and I believe that is the case for most of USCIS staff most of the time.
Click to expand...

No, USCIS is a law enforcement agency and even though they call us customers, they are ultimately concerned about granting citizenship to those that qualify for it. They are not there to HELP you get citizenship.
 
vdostoi1 said:
No, USCIS is a law enforcement agency and even though they call us customers, they are ultimately concerned about granting citizenship to those that qualify for it. They are not there to HELP you get citizenship.
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At least they won't exhaust all their means to prevent yoru citizenship
before they grant it.
 
WBH said:
If I were the IO, I could insist you provide the court disposition document
then I also insist you provide me a police report from the police, which
is almost impossible to get under certain conditions
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That would result in a lot of lawsuits. If the USCIS was really out to prevent applicants from getting their citizenship, we'd see a lot more denials for things like minor traffic and parking tickets.
 
Vorpal said:
That would result in a lot of lawsuits. If the USCIS was really out to prevent applicants from getting their citizenship, we'd see a lot more denials for things like minor traffic and parking tickets.
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So I think one should not worry too much about not being able to get enough documents for traffic violation or even some other dismenor as long as it is
not deportable, not CIMT, and it occured outside 5 year period. One should
try reasosnable efforts to get docuemnts and that is all one can do.
 
I was in similiar situation yesterday when I was doing my oath. I posted the experience in the Seattle Tracker. Basically, they did call the supervisor. I mentioned that I paid and have the receipt. They took my receipt ( which by the way showed I owed money as it was an early payment, it was striked-out by the clerk) and wrote notes on the spreadsheet of oath takers. Not a big deal but for few seconds I thought I wasnt going to be taking oath because the front desk clerk who was checking in everyone, didnt know what to do with traffic violation tickets. That little paper called the recepit, which says ( I owe) $195.00 didnt include anything other than ticket number, date and amount. They took it because I guess who would come to this stage and forge a traffic ticket receipt document? So, yes, if you are planning to be truthful, plan to dissolve the case with written evidence.
 
Hello Newrunner
I also answered No for citations (two which were less than $500). Does the IO ALWAYS ask about the ticket/citations during the interview? If so, then I am thiking of saying no on the duplicate form that I have to carry to the interview and then telling him/her orally that I have had citations less than $500.
 
mazdur_desi said:
Does the IO ALWAYS ask about the ticket/citations during the interview? If so, then I am thiking of saying no on the duplicate form that I have to carry to the interview and then telling him/her orally that I have had citations less than $500.
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IOs typically run through the completed N-400 question by question to ensure that the form has been completed correctly. They typically see your form for the first time when you walk into their office. They may have pulled your A-File in preparation for the interview, but they typically don't get a chance to review your N-400 before you come in.

There is no requirement for you to carry your duplicate N-400 into the interview with you unless you think you have forgotten some of your question responses. They are not going to "quiz" you on the form, but they will want to confirm that you are the person you say you are and that your form has truthful and correct answers on it...:)

I took the approach that you are considering. I said No on the form but when the question came up and the IO asked if I had "ever been arrested or cited", I said that I knew that speeding tickets were typically citations, and asked if I should amend my answer on the form from No to Yes. She asked me if the tickets involved drugs or alcohol. I said no, and she said it wasn't an issue and she moved on to the next question.
 
mazdur_desi said:
Hello Newrunner
I also answered No for citations (two which were less than $500). Does the IO ALWAYS ask about the ticket/citations during the interview? If so, then I am thiking of saying no on the duplicate form that I have to carry to the interview and then telling him/her orally that I have had citations less than $500.
Click to expand...

I also answered "NO" to that question. In preparation for my interview, I obtained as many of my traffic ticket records as I could. Since all my tickets were for minor violations, I planned to disclose them only if the IO specifically asked. At the interview, the IO only asked if I've ever been arrested, and mentioned nothing about being cited or detained. Needless to say, I answered "No". My application was approved and I took my oath a month later.

Don't worry about minor traffic tickets. They will not have any effect on the outcome of your application.
 
WBH said:
So I think one should not worry too much about not being able to get enough documents for traffic violation or even some other dismenor as long as it is
not deportable, not CIMT, and it occured outside 5 year period. One should
try reasosnable efforts to get docuemnts and that is all one can do.
Click to expand...

You're correct. I've mentioned in various threads (too many to remember) that many motor vehicle authorities purge driver records every few years. For instance, the New York State DMV purges driver records every January 1st, after a traffic violation has been on your record for 3 years. To clarify this, let's say you receive a speeding ticket today. At the end of July 2012, the ticket will turn 3 years old. On January 1, 2013, it will be purged from your record. After the ticket has been purged, there is absolutely no way to obtain proof of payment or court disposition. Some local authorities that don't report minor traffic violations to the NYS DMV have their own methods of keeping records, so it may be possible to obtain payment info. However, if the ticket was issued by an authority that reports to the DMV, a record cannot be obtained after it's been purged.
 
well, I finally got my oath letter yesterday, but have a speeding ticket that took place 3 days BEFORE my interview. I pleaded not guilty and am now waiting for my court date, which may or may not take place before the oath ceremony (scheduled for 8/21). At any rate, even if it falls after the ceremony, I don't believe I'm obligated to mention anything since the incident took place BEFORE the interview. The open status of the ticket should bear no relevancy to the oath ceremony.
 
GhostRider said:
well, I finally got my oath letter yesterday, but have a speeding ticket that took place 3 days BEFORE my interview. I pleaded not guilty and am now waiting for my court date, which may or may not take place before the oath ceremony (scheduled for 8/21). At any rate, even if it falls after the ceremony, I don't believe I'm obligated to mention anything since the incident took place BEFORE the interview. The open status of the ticket should bear no relevancy to the oath ceremony.
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Correct. The ticket took place before your interview. The questions on the back of the oath letter pertain only to events that happened AFTER the interview. When filling out the back of the oath letter, the correct answer to the question regarding arrests and citations should be "NO"...unless, of course, you end up getting another ticket!;)
 
Does the number of speeding citations effect our citizenship application? I had two speeding citations back in 2000 & 2003 and I mentioned them in the applications. Any advice?
 
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