TN Temp visa

CalGreenCard said:
I'm talking here, though, about lawyers whose bread and butter is H-1B petitions. These lawyers know their stuff when it comes to H-1B. And this is NOT a Canadian-specific issue. These lawyers put H-1B letters in H-1B petitions for ALL petitions--not just for Canadians.
Click to expand...

That doesn't change things very much - the fact that they've consistently put in a cover letter doesn't make it mandatory. Lawyers like to suggest that thinks are riskier or more necessary than is the case from time to time.
 
aatish231 said:
calgirl my company's lawyer told my company that they SHOULD NOT get a three year TN letter for their employees. I quote their is a 90% chance that Tn's will be rejected if you give them a 3 year letter, 90% chances of approval if they get 1 year letter.
Click to expand...

I am not a girl. Then again I'm no longer in California or a green card holder--see sig. The lawyer's basic point here is that the TN is temporary. The lawyer may be taking a little poetic license with the exact numbers, but the basic point is that you can't stay in TN status forever. If you want to stay permanently--and when you start talking about a 3 year renewal it begins to sound semi-permanent--then get a 1 year TN as a convenience, switch to H-1B next April, and start working on the GC.

aatish231 said:
I don't know where they pulled those stats from, regardless i took a 3 year letter and got approved my firm decided to use the same letter again and again for 3 year tn all approved. They dumped the law firm
I guess the lawyer wanted to retain fee's for all employee's on a yearly basis. Why charge once every three years when you can charge once every year.
Click to expand...

IMHO the lawyer is trying to steer you in the direction of a more permanent status. You might ask yourself why your employer dumped them. IMHO the lawyer was doing right by you. Temporary TN status on a long term basis sucks. It's good that you've been approved for the short term but I'd be looking for something a bit more permanent in terms of your US status.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
That doesn't change things very much - the fact that they've consistently put in a cover letter doesn't make it mandatory.
Click to expand...

Again, the terminology is:

Cover letter--something the lawyer writes that basically just lists what is in the package. Of no legal significance and basically just an extraneous checklist.

H-1B letter of support--something the petitioner (employer) writes that explains the reasons why the beneficiary qualifies for H-1B status. No exact cookie cutter format because it depends on the specific facts of the individual case. Perhaps not 100% mandatory in 100% of cases but highly advisable.
 
nelsona said:
... and some law firms insist that 90% of 3-year TN petitions are rejected. chime-chime
Click to expand...

I would liken this to a doctor advising a patient that there is a 90% chance that they will get lung cancer within 3 years if they continue to smoke--when the doctor knows full well it is more likely to be 15-20 years. Technically the doctor isn't telling the truth but there is good reason for the advice and one might as well quit smoking now rather than push one's luck. It is responsible advice even if technically a significant exaggeration of the short term risks.

You can't use a TN to stay permanently. If you try to do so, then with high probability (90% seems fair) you will eventually be rejected and face a serious life crisis as a result. Yes, the chances of the current 3-year petition being rejected are fairly low but the lawyer is trying to get people to stop thinking of a TN as a tool for staying long term. That's a misuse of the TN--which is intended to be a short term tool. If you try to use a TN as a tool to stay permanently eventually you'll get called on it by CBP or USCIS.
 
Wow.

A lawyer is never wrong, rather "The lawyer may be taking a little poetic license...", The lawyer is not incompetent, rather "the lawyer is trying to steer you in the direction of a more permanent status". The lawyer is not lying to cover their incompetence, rather " the lawyer is trying to get people to stop thinking of a TN as a tool for staying long term".

Really?! a lawyer is hired to do the legal bidding of his client, not spew bull$h!t to pad their account.

A doctor that told you that you had a 90% chance of dying from a tonsillectomy (which, in legal equivalent is about the complexity of a TN petition -- which doesn't even need a lawyer, btw) would be fired too, and subsequently would be taken to the medical board.

A little bit of hero-worship going on, here. Those chimes have indeed mesmerized you, cal. It almost sopunds like wedding bells to you.
 
nelsona said:
A lawyer is never wrong, rather "The lawyer may be taking a little poetic license...", The lawyer is not incompetent, rather "the lawyer is trying to steer you in the direction of a more permanent status". The lawyer is not lying to cover their incompetence, rather " the lawyer is trying to get people to stop thinking of a TN as a tool for staying long term".
Click to expand...

We are getting a little bit away from the debate as to whether a letter is required or advised for an H-1B but here is how to think of an employment immigration attorney IMHO (with all due respect to the lawyers out there :) :

An attorney represents their own interests first.
An attorney represents the employer's interests second.
And an attorney represents the employee's interests last (and usually least).

As the weakest of the three parties involved, the employee's best strategy is usually to do what is always advisable when finding oneself the weakest in a group of three--play the two stronger parties off against each other.

The attorney is definitely looking for more business and wants the future business of more frequent renewals and eventual H-1B sponsorship and green card sponsorship. In doing so, the attorney will definitely try to exaggerate the risks of the TN. But the point is that the employee should play along with this as much as possible because it is in the employee's interests to do so. Yes it is in the attorney's interests for a different reason--the attorney makes more money--but the interests of the employee and the attorney intersect here.

So it is just smart to play along with the attorney when they are talking of the risks of the TN--rather than blasting them for allegedly bad ethics or abilities.

Being in TN long term really sucks. Because of the limited range of job categories in TN, it is really hard to advance in one's career while on TN--and there's the risk of an eventual rejection of a renewal.

But as bad as a TN is long term, it is a wonderful short term tool for getting one's foot in the door in the US. IMHO the correct strategy is to use the TN to get started and then to play the lawyer and the employer off so they begin to work towards green card sponsorship. Once the initial TN is in place, the risks of remaining in TN should be played up, not down, wherever possible.

This is not about hero worship of the lawyer but my opinion as to the best strategy for dealing with a lawyer for someone in a TN.
 
This goof-up was suggesting a series of 1-year TNs, nothing more, nothing 'better', and to justify this, he spew some crap about approval rates, which no one believes -- except maybe you, cal? How is that in the best interest of anyone. he was fired, correctly so. You questioned why the firm would do so.

And as to the H1 letter issue, that topic is for the H1 thread, not here, we've put that one to rest, here.
 
nelsona said:
This goof-up was suggesting a series of 1-year TNs, nothing more, nothing 'better', and to justify this, he spew some crap about approval rates, which no one believes -- except maybe you, cal? How is that in the best interest of anyone.
Click to expand...

It is in the employee's best interests because it keeps the immigration issue on the front burner--which is where it should be IMHO until one gets a GC--rather than relegating it to the back burner. A year from now (had the attorney's recommendation been followed) the matter could have been renegotiated with the employer and the employer could have been pushed to start GC processing. As it is, the OP is stuck in a dead-end visa for 3 years. Not the end of the world because 3 years isn't forever--but 1 year would have been better than 3. IMHO--again--the TN is a great visa to start in but one should try to get out of TN status as quickly as possible.

nelsona said:
You questioned why the firm would do so.
Click to expand...

It was a bit of a rhetorical question. I understand very well why the firm would do so but the reason isn't in the best interests of the OP--so I wanted the OP to consider too. The firm fired the lawyer because you don't need a lawyer for TN status if TN status is all you want. The reason why you'd use a lawyer for a TN is because you don't want to do anything in the TN petition that might jeopardize a subsequent GC application. If all you ever want is a TN, there is usually no need for a lawyer. The firm figured this out and fired the lawyer. It is a perfectly rational business decision from the firm's perspective, but it also sends a very clear signal to the OP that this firm has no intention of ever sponsoring a GC. I wasn't sure if the OP understood this.
 
IMHO the lawyer is trying to steer you in the direction of a more permanent status. You might ask yourself why your employer dumped them. IMHO the lawyer was doing right by you. Temporary TN status on a long term basis sucks. It's good that you've been approved for the short term but I'd be looking for something a bit more permanent in terms of your US status.[/QUOTE]



After 2 years the employer realized that they can give the same letter to their employees. The Lawyer was making 1500$ per letter for 10 employees and 1500x10x3 is 45000$ why make 15k when they can make 45k. Its pretty obvious.
 
aatish231 said:
After 2 years the employer realized that they can give the same letter to their employees. The Lawyer was making 1500$ per letter for 10 employees and 1500x10x3 is 45000$ why make 15k when they can make 45k. Its pretty obvious.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that money is motivating the lawyer; however, I also stand by what I said that the attorney was trying to steer you/your company to a more permanent status. They'll make $45k for annual TN renewals over 3 years but they'd have made even more than that for GC petitions (which would be on top of any further renewals of TN or H-1B while the GC is pending). GC is usually $5k by itself minimum so that would be $50k for the 10 people right there--but there's also the additional TN renewals plus they would have tried to get you to switch to H-1B (not really necessary if you go for the GC but an additional source of revenue for the atty).

However none of this is really relevant anymore since the lawyer is out of the picture. The good news is that you have a 3 year TN so there is no immediate crisis. The bad news is that you have no clear path to the GC. My take on the TN is that it is very limited. It is great for certain specific jobs but very bad for building a career. And, although there is no clear limit on the number of renewals, eventually renewals are likely to be denied.
 
CalGreenCard said:
I have no doubt that money is motivating the lawyer; however, I also stand by what I said that the attorney was trying to steer you/your company to a more permanent status. They'll make $45k for annual TN renewals over 3 years but they'd have made even more than that for GC petitions (which would be on top of any further renewals of TN or H-1B while the GC is pending). GC is usually $5k by itself minimum so that would be $50k for the 10 people right there--but there's also the additional TN renewals plus they would have tried to get you to switch to H-1B (not really necessary if you go for the GC but an additional source of revenue for the atty).

However none of this is really relevant anymore since the lawyer is out of the picture. The good news is that you have a 3 year TN so there is no immediate crisis. The bad news is that you have no clear path to the GC. My take on the TN is that it is very limited. It is great for certain specific jobs but very bad for building a career. And, although there is no clear limit on the number of renewals, eventually renewals are likely to be denied.
Click to expand...


Cal The company was never interested in filing anyone's Green Card. The jobs are all temporary few years here and there.
I have dealt with a few attorneys in the past and come to realize either they really don't care and most of the time don't know the basic laws or will give you bad advice. I am sure their are good one's out their as well. I get more information from NELSON here believe it or not for free.

My wife's PERM process was filed after a year. The lawyer has now posted my wife's job requirement twice after making an error the first time. Current PERM wait time is 5 months and growing. If the attorney would have applied for her PERM last year instead of procrastinating the wait time would ave been 2 months or so.

My interpretation of lawyers is they are just in to make money and more money they will give you bad advice if they can make an extra buck out of you. Sorry but this is how i feel.
 
aatish231 said:
My wife's PERM process was filed after a year. The lawyer has now posted my wife's job requirement twice after making an error the first time. Current PERM wait time is 5 months and growing. If the attorney would have applied for her PERM last year instead of procrastinating the wait time would ave been 2 months or so.
Click to expand...

If I had to guess, my guess would be that this isn't incompetence on the part of the attorney but intentional foot dragging to slow down the process as much as possible. It is in the interests of the employer (who is paying the attorney) to drag the process out as long as possible. I'm seen these kinds of delays too often to believe that incompetence explains it most of the time--of course, there is always the possibility in any specific case that it might be incompetence.

So it looks to me like if you want your green cards, you need to be getting a new job that will sponsor you. The foot dragging by your wife's employer's attorney suggests to me that it is a long shot that you'll get your green cards through her job--although you should keep that iron in the fire until you get something better. But you should be getting a better iron in the fire yourself.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
Strictly speaking, all that is required is the I-129 for an H-1, and for a TN merely an offer letter to the alien applicant with the necessary info is necessary. As a matter of practice, attorneys tend to create cover letters for their petitions - I wonder if anyone at USCIS ever reads them.
Click to expand...

I am agree with you, actually lawyer will make the cover letter for that case, this is her/his responsibility to prepare it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top