Surge of Older PD’s

[can_card]

Solution : one is wait for the turn may be a couple of years for EB3's from India and china... and the second one is shop around for earlier PD's which will come out of BEC (300,000 LC are waiting to be cleared).

eBhola,

Are you still suggesting to enter in back door, by shopping it illegaly? The purpose of this discussion is lost. If we try to stop this fraud and the loophole in the system, we all will be benifited and need not wait for several years. Once it is done, the cutoff date will move fast in forward direction.

 

[eBhola]

eBhola,

Are you still suggesting to enter in back door, by shopping it illegaly? The purpose of this discussion is lost. If we try to stop this fraud and the loophole in the system, we all will be benifited and need not wait for several years. Once it is done, the cutoff date will move fast in forward direction.

ha ha ... hmm no I am suggesting that . but that is the one of the solution.
There is nothing much orther than that -- stoping the loophole can help a little bit for us and much more for the future applicants.
How can U get Ur PD to become current in a year time, if there are 40,000 [just my estimate] recycled PD's between 1998-2000.

 

[can_card]

Your estimate 40,000 sub lc with old PD was already floating or recycled illegally. It will be added with BEC's LC clearence of 300,000. Let us assume about half (150,000 )LC comes to black market. Including derivaties, there may be a 300,000 to 400,000 visa numbers will be consumed illegaly, pusing the peoples in the the Q. They will be waiting for ever.

Only solution for this is to stop the Labor subsitution complettly and immediatly. Otherwise, it will be disaster for the peoples waiting in the Q, with own labor. We need to write this to USCIS.

 

[eBhola]

Your estimate 40,000 sub lc with old PD was already floating or recycled illegally. It will be added with BEC's LC clearence of 300,000. Let us assume about half (150,000 )LC comes to black market. Including derivaties, there may be a 300,000 to 400,000 visa numbers will be consumed illegaly, pusing the peoples in the the Q. They will be waiting for ever.

Only solution for this is to stop the Labor subsitution complettly and immediatly. Otherwise, it will be disaster for the peoples waiting in the Q, with own labor. We need to write this to USCIS.

can_card,
I agree with U ... disaster is nothing but imminent, if nothing is done towards the LC sub issue ... All the recaptured visa number that every one is happy about will be consumed very quickly.

 

[Nadi]

Will Depedents GC get delayed?

Just a question,
After this latest is signed into a law -- Dependents will not be counted against the EB category .. thats a good news and cause of celebration as it releases so many visa numbers for the primary applicants..

Will the dependents will be counted against the FB category ... in that case there might be conditions where the primary got the GC and the dependents need to wait a long time to get there GC...
Is this senario likely or they will get GC along with the primary?

Thanks

 

[gcjoe]

I think most of the folks on this forum agree that labor substitution is being misused. I think USCIS is going against its own rules when it takes the labor application date as priority date for a substitution case. The question is, is there something we can do about it? Send emails to senators and such? I think this will get more of their attention than increasing the GC quota. what do you guys think?

 

[nonogc]

UN, I have really hard time to understand how the family can be exempt from visa number. It is not like H-4, who basically has not much right as H-1b. Once you gain a visa number/GC, people can't tell if it is through who. Do you think anyone has figured out a way to do this?

 

[Nadi]

PD roll back every OCT ?

Actually the problem has gone out of control..

I will give U a live example:

Guy ABC ... has got labor approved .. and got 140 approved. Now he has PD of 2003. Since he is from retro affected country and EB-3 .. He knows its a long long wait.

In order to beat the retrogression -- he shops around for better deal. A company XYZ says it has labor of 2000. Guy ABC grabs it ... for a price, and files 140 .. his another 140 gets approved .. but he transfers the 2nd labors PD to his first labors PD .. So now he has the PD of 2000.

Meanwhile he submits the AC21 and so has no strings attached to Company XYZ. Company XYZ to looks out for another guy to fill in the vacant labor.

This is not an isolated incidence --- this is going on in mass...

So every November --- expect the PD date to rollback to 2000 level as the 2000 labor will never be consumed .. as long as the company smartly pays its cards.

May be this might be good for many guys --- that might be one of the reason why people are pushing around to file 485 even if retrogressed. The 180 days rule of AC-21 has created this 'labor rush era'... and there is/was a big push to make this happen.

 

[rasi_s]

Labor Substitution Elimination

May be that is why they are pushing for Labor Substitution Elimination now. That will stop this cut-off dates forward/backward movement.

Rasi

 

[Nadi]

May be that is why they are pushing for Labor Substitution Elimination now. That will stop this cut-off dates forward/backward movement.

Rasi

Even if they stop the labor substitution now ..for the guy with PD Jan 2003 --- with fair estimate --- the wait is till 2007. -- ofcouse I am discussing EB-3 retrogressed and if visa numbers are not recaptured ...( world wide are eating the cake except Mr Green ... kidding!!)


Whats Ur take on this...

 

[nato]

you are missing there are genuine people in BEC with 01 PD

May be that is why they are pushing for Labor Substitution Elimination now. That will stop this cut-off dates forward/backward movement.

Rasi

 

[yuren]

United Nations.

If cooks, waiters, carpenters are skilled workers, then who are falling in the "unskilled worker" category ?

I thought those without college education should be in "unskilled worker" category of EB3.

 

[Nadi]

Just think that California, New York and New Jersey with the big backload of labor cases filed in regular permanent prior to April 2001 haven't even been approved yet. It will even flood it more. That is why I say, without the changes in immigration law, the visa dates for eb3 will move to april 2001 and stay there for years, upon years.

You drive home a very important point --- no one till date thought of those huge pool of regular labor applicant...

 

[neocor]

You drive home a very important point --- no one till date thought of those huge pool of regular labor applicant...

Oh you are only looking at the tip of the iceberg.
What about all the labors that were approved 3-4 years before that.
Who is stopping them to be substituted over and over again (umpteen) number of times endlessly.
As long as the Apr 2001 Labors remain in backlog, its not going to effect the EB3 numbers, however I am not worried about it even if backlog starts clearing them.

I am more worreid about desi cunsulting companies selling already approved labors (PD prior to 2000) to unsuspecting people.
Remember USCIS will take a long time to even pick up these papers to see if they are legitimate, however they will count the 485 filing towards the EB3 cap and push back the PD's further. This visious cycle will continue and the desi bhadwaas will be the winners, as the papers will never get pciked up, they will pocket the $25K for each labor and the employee will leave the company after 3-4 years of futile wait and loss of $25K

Believe me guys no immigration reform is going to work as long as the reform does not include abolishment of Labor Substitution. You keep mailing/faxing the senators and congressmen. Even if the bill passes the PD's are not going to move.

neocor

 

[neocor]

Your issue is smaller one then the ones filed in april 2001 that are still backlogged.

No its actually big for each and every EB3 filer, and EB2 offcourse.

How many labors do you think are there pre 2003 that can be recycled.

Each and every labor that has ever been filed. Irrespective of weather the labor has been utilized for filing 140-485 or not, or even if a Green Crad has been issued based on that Labor. Desi Bhadwaas can sell any Labor kept in their cabinets over and over again many many times. And that is what has happened in the past one year since the retrogression began. And that is why the PD's have gone back 8 years.

If law changes to allow filing 485 even if one is retrogressed, there would be no value in backlogged labors. I don't know why one would want to pay $25K at that point when they and their dependents can get ead/ap and enjoy portability.

If this happens then probably some people wont go for substitution. But still they will know that they have to be in EAD for about 10-12 years. And that will again drive them to take the leap into Labor Substitution, and will drive the PD's further back.

I know majority here wont root to abolish Labor substitution here thinking that a back door entry should not be closed. But what people are not realising is that this back door entry is what has created the problem.

The day people stop talking about increase in Visa numbers or things like allowing to file 485 without PD's and talk about abolishing LS in the same vein its not going to help anyway.
Offcourse increase in Visa numbers and allowing filing of 485 wihtout consideration of PD's is a very good thing. But the benifits of these are completely negated in LS remains.

I see that people are still blind about this.

neocor

 

[Nadi]

I know atleast 9 guys in person who took the path of substitution labor ( now better known as recycled labor)

Out of 9 guys :
4 had applied for regular labor ... seeing the progress card -- they decided to turn in for a faster way.
2 had applied the RIR Route and were unlucky to get into Backlog Center.
1 guy had his 140 approved .. but since his PD was 2004 .. decided to take a jump by filing another 140 with pre-approved labor. He makes big $$$ so did not think much --- I guess.
2 guys are are special types -- the lawyer scared them that PERM is/was difficult -- this was during the period when PERM was all new. They got conned to go the recycled labor route ... One of the guy later filied for his own labor toooo.. as he got scared of all the indepth look they are doing now a days for recycled labor.

In all most of the guys had there own labor also -- they are only going the recycled route when they get in trouble or think that they might get overly delayed.


I think they should give EAD for 5 years instead of 1 year ... most of the problem will be solved ... I mean the uneasiness one feels waiting in line.

 

[eBhola]

However, the 10 ton elephand is the backlogged labors for 245i.

The life act which extended its deadline to April 30, 2001. The only requirement was an alien must be physically present in US on December 21, 2000 & labor filied before the deadline.

I am not sure how many guys filied in -- but as U said since the criteria was so approvable for most of the aliens... there might be many many applicants. Even the USCIS or INS then might have known or estimated the volume of application they are going to get.

A general pardon would have been better I guess...

There will be many guys too who had filied in for regular labor instead of RIR.. as the regular labor takes such a long time there will be great many people who have had been waiting from pre-2000 era too.

Well it seems PD for Retro countries be locked up at early 2001 for many more years to come.....

Immigration reforms or extending the EAD period to 5 years is the only solution I guess... well former is possible .. latter is never discussed too.

 

[neocor]

Neocor, you have to have statistics to back up your position.

Retrogression was due to 2 main reasons:

1) all of the ac21 unused visas under the law made the annual greencard base visa current.

2) people from other countries (non professional) were stuck in 245i labors filed before April 30, 2001.

Because other countries weren't using their quotas because they couldn't, India/China were taking up other countries quota.

Plain and simiple that is the two main things that have happened.

now, most consultants I know of filed multiple labors through different compoanies and their spouse may have also filed those labors. These unused labors will be substitutable to others.

However, the 10 ton elephand is the backlogged labors for 245i. Recycling the priority dates over and over again is not going to take up 300,000 to 450,000 greencards like the 245i labors are going to.

You are right that I dont have numbers on my side to corraborate my point.
But if you think straight and see how the retrogression progressed from Jan 2005 to June 2005 and then what happened after that.
I have personally known more than a dozen people who ran after Labors with PD's prior to 2001 in order to file 485 in the period between Jan 05 to Jun 05.

I personally know about a friend whose Labor was substituted by his company even when he was working with the company. The person who got the labor called him up to find about the labor. When they talked to the bhadwaa he said that there is nothing stopping them to substitute the labor even when the original person is still there. That the INS will take 3-4 years to find out about this and in the mean time both of them will continue with working on the EAD. And at a later point he will apply a fresh labor which will be valid in case INS raises any questions.
Another more disturbing thing that is going on is that labor of people who have got the GC's are also getting substituted. I have not personally come across any such case though.

You are saying that the 10 ton elephant is the backlogged labors. But how do you justify PD's of 1998. PD's are based on how many 485 applications are pending. As long as Labor is pending they wont be factored in while setting up the PD. This however given even a more grim picture once backlog centers start clearing up labors. The PD's will move back to 1988.

neocor

 

[WhyThisDelay]

UN.

Are you sure about the 245i guys consuming regular EB3 visa numbers??

There was a discussion quite some time ago on this topic in DBEC forum. Some people there said that 245i are in the 'EB3 other' category with a max cap of 10000 visas per annum. So the opinion was not to worry about them - since there is a max. cap for them.

I dont really know who is correct, neither do I have links to offical site/docs stating the either. But still wanted to bring this up, since this issue is being discussed here.

One other thing; i do know a few companies with legitimate labors pre 2001. Last time I posted this, I had six people send me e-mails asking if i could put them in touch with those companies (please do not try contacting me on this issue).

Since May of this year the 245i labors have been getting approved. As stated before, Texas started approving them. Late last week one of my clients contacted me who got their 245i labor filed regular permanent approved by California. Now California is starting to approve them and there is many backlogged in that State.

M understanding is that the visa dates are calculated based on approved I-140 petitions. On the I-140 it asks about dependents so that USCIS can report how many greencards that one petition will take.

Regarding what the lawyer told you about uscis will take a few years to figure it out. Because they are making decisions on 140's so quickly now they can tell the history of the labor and will deny right away or not approve ead/ap. Trust me, many people have contacted me where companies have tried this and they got into problems. If USCIS starts detecting patterns which they did back in 2003 and 2004 they will put a processing hold on the ead/ap until the 140 gets approved.

USCIs is having much more connectivity within their systems and they have the tools now to stop these types of things.

 

[Billtoo]

cyclic labor filing -- will be cyclic

This cyclic labor filing may never go away.
For guys with 140 denial due to wrong labor, or for guys whose 485 got denied due to company issues or for guys who have come to tailgate of there 6th year on h1b…
‘Substitution labor’ is the quick way.
Even with lots of risks and lot of $ involved … people will be lured to these resellers companies... and for USCIS they will always have an older PD to work with.
With no sight of any legislative changes in the immigration (GC wing) … I would be happy if they allow EAD to last 5 years instead of 1 year.