Several personal concerns on N-400 application...

[JohnnyCash]

When I spoke to the immigration attorney Friday, she initially wished to know who I was calling about (what relationship to me). When I explained it was for myself, she proceeded to explain that she could always tell when a potential immigration/naturalization client was calling on their own behalf, as they always had some type of accent. She was rather surprised at the lack of accent. It was a first for he.

I am not sure why you have REPEATEDLY mentioned about you not having an accent. I see you have talked about it earlier too in one of your postings. If you don't have any accent, then it's good for you. But what this (accent) got to do with legal issue in hand or being a US citizen? Plus, having no accent doesn't mean you are an American, nor it makes you a naturalized US citizen automatically.

You might say that by talking about accent you just wanted people to know that you are an American by all other means than by virtue of merely on legal paper, which still doesn't make any sense (logical one) to ME. Because just because someone has no accent then that doesn't mean s/he is an American. Believe me, it takes more than just having no accent to be an American.

You might also say that the reason you have mentioned about this accent subject because you don't want people to think that you are an illiterate person who asked his wife to be his mouthpiece then I don't think anyone on here has thought of this even for a second. Because you have already shown of you being an literate person from the beginning by keeping the discussion in a modest way.

If this attorney who you consulted with got surprised to know that you have no accent unlike other immigrants do then good for you. But you know what, there are millions of natural born American citizens (especially women) who like people with accent. For these women, it's kinda automatic turn on or about having instant attraction/chemistry. While for other people, it's good to listen something in different accent. So obviously, these people don't like these immigrants to loose their original accent nor they want them to change their original name. I know many immigrants who wanted to change their original name, for example- from Mohammad to Mike, or from Tajvinder to Tom and etc. once they get here to show that they are "American" but some American people don't feel that they should change their name and accent to show that they are American. They find these people's names and accent as unique and sexy. So, it's just a matter of personal preference who like accent and who don't.

Speaking for accent then I myself have pretended to have talked in other accents many times when some of the American women I dated told me that they would rather be delighted to listen to me in another accent than "American" accent. And I'm sure you know that millions of US citizens (nautral and naturalized) don't even speak English well or they have some kind of accent. I personally know hundreds of these people. But that doesn't mean that they are less of an American. Some people are easily adaptable to other cultures than others. That's all. The main reason why most people never get rid of their accent is because it's hard for them to adapt/learn American prounciation given their age/background. Plus, they keep a strong attachment/tie to their own culture. Meaning, they mingle only or more with their own people and watch their own tv programs or other stuffs than mingling with "American" society, which is perfectly okay. Having said that, if you have adapted to American accent then good for you, but you cannot imply that having no accent means you are an American otherwise. Lack of accent means nothing in this context that we are talking here.

 

[JohnnyCash]

My husband and I met when we were 21. We married at 22. Way to young to get married, but we were young and in love. At that age you think you know everything, but now at 35 I realize we really didn't know much.

I do understand and believe what you have said here, Cathy, but I hope you would also understand that whatever you have said still doesn't wipe out the truth/fact that he did violate the immigration laws by registering to vote which makes him 100% deportable with lifetime bar to re-enter the United States.

As for you to have brought up young age to justify this happening then I personally don't agree with it. Yes, we cannot know everything in that kind of young age but we cannot justify a wrongdoing because of young age either. Speaking for age, then I'm 31 yrs old and already became an aggressive attorney in the age of 25 and then left practicing laws in the age of 28 to do a family business and now I'm a successful business person. I've been around to 3 major immigration forums to help people for the last 4 yrs. I could be wrong, but I think this is much of an accomplishment for someone in this age of mine. So, I don't think young age alone had everything to do in your husband's situation.

I'm sure you are proud to be an American, and you would never intentionally disobey the laws, but this is not about you, Cathy; rather it is about your husband. Even though you told him to do this as you thought this was the "right thing" to do, yet still he is alone responsible for this. Yes, he made some stupid mistakes (knowingly or unknowingly) like we all do at times, and I've no doubt that you guys love each other very much and are honest people. But laws don't see things based upon love, respect, honesty, and sympathy; rather based upon action. My heart goes out for you and your family. I just hope you guys would make a thoughtful decision given the accurate info I've given to him.

 

[Want2BAmerican]

Johnny Cash, I have no problem with accents. Several family members have accents. As a matter of fact I can do a great Pakistani, Irish (Gaelic), Northeast (Bostonian) accent, among others, when I am playing around...

I just want anyone reading to understand the possibility of why the clerk at the Driver's Lic Facility would check the yes box for "are you an American Citizen?" without asking the question of me... And further that my wife does not speak for me in any situation, for any reason, other than she spoke before I ,or other natural (not intended) reason.

And I do thank you for all of your input.

 

[mario123]

Again, hard to believe

...
Just to re-iterate, if there was a box to be checked yes or no, 'are you a US Citizen?' I did not, nor would not check it. ...The question posed to me (verbally, not in writing), was simply, would you like to register to vote? No question(s) about my nationality or Citizenship. ...I believe that the representative either by hand or by computer checked the box that I am a US Citizen; assuming that that question even exists on the IL (my home state) voter registration card application...

Well, from looking at the Illinois voter reg. appl, your response again is very hard to believe. Please bear with me - I don't know you personally, and neither will the IO interviewing you - so, lets not make this a personal issue. As many have pointed out here - it's really up to the IO to decide your case, and from the looks of this response from you, I am having a hard time believing that the person at the DMV simply filled out all the info on your behalf, checked the box that you are a citizen and then...........drum roll please....... signed the form for you (thereby forging your signature ). Can you now see why this does not add up?

Ofcourse, there is always the chance that these series of events actually did happen, in which case all they have to do is pull out the reg. form from the IL archives and see WHO actually signed it. Or.... maybe the form does not exist. In which case, it's a billion to 1 odds in your favor!

 

[Want2BAmerican]

Mario123, I am not stating that there was no form, just that I did not complete it. It was already completed for me, all I did was sign.

I know for a fact and can remember completely, at least twice when renewing my license, the S.O.S. offical checked the boxes at the back of the renewal form with the appropriate responses without even asking me, then simply said "sign in the box." These questions have nothing to do with voter registration, but rather with license eligibility, etc. The only question was has anything changed since the last issuance of your DL. IE, height, weight, etc. They checked the boxes for me that my license was not suspended or revoked, I do not hold licenses in multiple states, or whatever else is on the back, etc, etc.

In this same 'hurry up and get it done' manner is how I guess my voter registration card was completed. I would love to see the original. I bet the boxes are computer checked and the form is filled out by computer.

In the end though, I suppose it's still my ignorance of not reading what I signed...

 

[Want2BAmerican]

But you know what, there are millions of natural born American citizens (especially women) who like people with accent. For these women, it's kinda automatic turn...

When I mentioned your above statement to my wife, she reminded me of how, when we first met, she was so turned on when I talked to her with an (essentially false) accent.

I had totally forgetten about that... It put a big simle on my face just remembering those times.

 

[rogerkint]

closer reading

This case from 2005 might be an interesting read. Personally, I feel that voting when you are explicitly not allowed to is wrong. But to say that there is no remedy might be inaccurate, and that the laws and regulations are not as black and white as we may think. The conclusion to this case states that "[t]he IJ's finding of removability, summarily affirmed by the BIA, is wrong."

Just my 2 cents.

Three things in that person's favor

1. Genuine confusion about Citizenship - thought she was a citizen by virtue of marriage to US citizen hence she did not "knowingly falsely claim US citizenship"
2. Was sent a voter registration though she filled "NO" in US Citizenship question on the postcard
3. Lived in Hawaii - more liberal circuit

It looks like the case went on from 1997 to 2005. For some reason this also seems to turn on Hawaii State law definition of "knowing".

There are two separate violations of law in the OP's case

1. Knowingly wrongfully claimed US citizenship on voter registration - his explanation is that he did not check the box - given the general lack of thoroughness, I will not be surprised if they actually sent him a voter registration despite the fact that he did not fill it out. it is iffy but maybe one can believe the OP.

2. Voting in elections when you are not eligible to do so. According to the Adjudicator's Field Manual "there is no requirement that the alien must have voted with the knowledge that he or she was not legally entitled to do so. Instead, unlawful voting under §611 is a general intent crime, and thus the prosecutor is only required to demonstrate that the accused alien intentionally and voluntarily voted."

OP clearly committed offense #2.

I think even if he does not file for naturalization, he is at risk if someone decides to do a sweep of the voter rolls. The only good thing is that merely registering to vote is not enough to convict, they have to prove he voted. He is certainly not required to voluntarily disclose this so maybe nothing can be proved unless they go through each election's records to find out if he voted (is that even possible?).

 

[mario123]

uummm

Mario123, I am not stating that there was no form, just that I did not complete it. It was already completed for me, all I did was sign.

I know for a fact and can remember completely, at least twice when renewing my license, the S.O.S. offical checked the boxes at the back of the renewal form with the appropriate responses without even asking me, then simply said "sign in the box." These questions have nothing to do with voter registration, but rather with license eligibility, etc. The only question was has anything changed since the last issuance of your DL. IE, height, weight, etc. They checked the boxes for me that my license was not suspended or revoked, I do not hold licenses in multiple states, or whatever else is on the back, etc, etc.

In this same 'hurry up and get it done' manner is how I guess my voter registration card was completed. I would love to see the original. I bet the boxes are computer checked and the form is filled out by computer.

In the end though, I suppose it's still my ignorance of not reading what I signed...

Dude, I'm not here to bust your chops - just here to give you an opinion from the eyes of someone who does not know you - like an IO.

That being said, I am having a real hard time believing your stories - it seems that each time you post, you throw another morsel of info. for us to chew on: In your intial post, you said that everything was done by the DMV rep. and the voter card simply appeared in the mail. Now you're saying it was all prefilled and all you did was sign it . Uuummmm hard to believe, but it could be that IL is the ONLY state in the union where the appl. forms are prefilled . Just pretend that I am an IO...... that's what the line of questioning would be if it ever gets to that point during your interview. Just remember - IO's are trained law officers - they can tell when someone is BS'ing.... and honestly...... to me I smell BS unless you can prove (by getting the info. from your county/town) that IL voter reg. forms are prefilled. That is the crux here - it would give your story a lot of credence.

 

[Want2BAmerican]

to me I smell BS unless you can prove (by getting the info. from your county/town) that IL voter reg. forms are prefilled. That is the crux here - it would give your story a lot of credence.

Highly unlikely I could prove it was pre-filled, or that they even do that in general...

In any case, at this point it's a non-issue as I do not intend to file for Naturalization at this time. That seems to be the consesus here, and just makes the most sense for me at this time. LPR status is fine by me.

Now, I have to get my Canadian Passport renewed. I have not been in Canada in 15 years... I wonder if they will have a problem with that. It remains to be seen.

 

[Flydog]

If you have proof of Canadian citizenship (a birth certificate, a citizenship card), getting a Cdn passport is pretty straightforward.

 

[supercomp]

Just to chime in,

what op is saying is true...DMV/MVA do sign people up for voter registration without asking.

It happened to my friend and he does not remember filling out any forms for it . Luckily, he realized that when he got it in the mail and he sent it back saying he wasn't citizen.

The fact that OP actually voted makes it worse though.

 

[Flydog]

I can remember having arguments with "get out the vote" workers during presidential elections. They'd tell me that I needed to register to vote. I'd point out that it was illegal. They'd tell me all I needed was a drivers licence. I'd point out that I didn't want to be deported. I'd walk away and it seemed like they were trying to make me feel unpatriotic.

But, rule 1 of immigration law - never falsely claim to be a citizen.

 

[MichaelDE]

I recall reading an article a few years back where a woman, I believe also incidently from Pakistan, was deported a long time after she checked something on a form stating she was a U.S. citizen to be eligible for a Federal job. I believe she had kids, family etc. The article was all about how it is hard on the family etc. But she was removed from the U.S. fast.

 

[Triple Citizen]

My naturalisation interview was held on Oct 12th last year, just a few weeks before the mid-term elections. After congratulating me and recommending me for approval the officer casually said, "Just make sure you do not vote until you become a citizen". Ofcourse my oath took place on Nov 21st and I never got to vote in the mid-terms

 

[warlord]

Plain and simple. Your loving relationship doesn't mean anything here or with the IO at all. What will matter is you voted plain and simple. Doesn't matter if you're the most respected person in town, you illegally voted.

You can give the IO all the details about your life together, he will ask you in the question part of the N-400 though, if you voted. Doesn't matter, you answer yes, and that's all he will look at. Did you Vote, or did you Not Vote. Did you register, did you not register. Nothing else will matter at this point for this part.

Stay with the green card, don't file for the N-400, renew your Canadian passport (which is taking several months now by mail) and just pray to your god(s) everynight they don't do any voter/immigrant cross checks at any point.

Many people live as GC holders all their lives in the US without ever becomming a citizen...

 

[mario123]

Not so fast my friend

Highly unlikely I could prove it was pre-filled, or that they even do that in general...

In any case, at this point it's a non-issue as I do not intend to file for Naturalization at this time. That seems to be the consesus here, and just makes the most sense for me at this time. LPR status is fine by me.

Now, I have to get my Canadian Passport renewed. I have not been in Canada in 15 years... I wonder if they will have a problem with that. It remains to be seen.

When making a decision of this magnitude (and seeing how badly you want to be an American), you definitely need to speak to at least 3-4 attorneys and get expert advice rather than going by what a bunch of talking heads are saying on an internet forum .

Even though it looks like the odds are stacked against you, you need to pursue all avenues short of simply mailing in your N-400 tomorrow. From the tone of your posts and the fact that you have always wanted to be an American, this issue will always haunt you and be in the back of your mind...... so, again, this is just another opinion.

Good luck - I mean it!

 

[mr. a]

WoW! I was lucky

This reminded me of when I saw voter registration application in public library and tried to fill it out. The first question was about being US citizen.

At age 15, I wasn't really sure if I was citizen or not. However, I put down the application when the next questions said you must be 18 yrs or older

 

[Want2BAmerican]

When making a decision of this magnitude (and seeing how badly you want to be an American), you definitely need to speak to at least 3-4 attorneys and get expert advice rather than going by what a bunch of talking heads are saying on an internet forum .

Good luck - I mean it!

Thank You Mario123, I will likely pursue this at a later time, and consult with additional attorney's before applying for Naturalization also.

 

[Micronesia]

...

In any case, at this point it's a non-issue as I do not intend to file for Naturalization at this time. That seems to be the consesus here, and just makes the most sense for me at this time. LPR status is fine by me.

.

Just a word of caution in this too.
Some time ago,remember vaguley ,read that --even the LPR 'renewal procedure' is more stringent now.
It seems IO can have a name check/back gorund check run, before renewing.This renewing was just a routine affair previously.
When IO runs check,your item1) may come off,hence keep ready of all court documents absolving you of the charges before go for renewal.
--------------------------------------------------
Not aleagl advise.

 

[Flydog]

My daughter's GC renewal (she renewed in the middle of our N-400 process) was a piece of cake. We filled in the form on line, less than a month later she had an FP appointment, less than a month after the FP she had a new GC (by which point she was a USC - oh well).