senator: do NOT carry foreign flags

thankful

Registered Users (C)
for those of you who plan to protest on Monday:

Martinez cautions protesters over use of Mexican flags

BY LESLEY CLARK
lclark@MiamiHerald.com

WASHINGTON - Florida's Sen. Mel Martinez, who was a key negotiator in crafting a Senate compromise on immigration, had a word of advice Friday for immigrant groups protesting a House proposal to make felons out of illegal immigrants: Keep the Mexican flags at home.

''I think it's terrible,'' the Republican senator said of the Mexican flags that have drawn criticism as protesters wield them at immigration rallies nationwide. ``I think it's a very mixed message.''

''It's fine for people to express themselves,'' the Cuban-born Martinez said. ``But if what this is about is the opportunity to be an American, to be a resident of America, to work in America and, ultimately, to be a citizen of America, they need to be carrying American flags. They need to be expressing themselves as to what it is they want.''

Martinez said he was not discounting heritage -- ``on the 17th of March everybody's Irish, on Cinco de Mayo we all wear big Mexican hats and drink margaritas. This is about a very profound discussion of what it is to be an American and I think, in that sense, those that are responsible leaders would do well to make sure these are pro-American demonstrations, of wanting opportunity.''

Organizers of some of the Florida demonstrations planned for Sunday and Monday said they have urged participants to carry only American flags.

''This is not about what my flag means to me,'' said the Rev. Caleb Deliard, pastor at Grace Alliance of the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Fort Lauderdale and a Haitian American. ``We are here under the American flag and we ought to be grateful for what this flag means to us.''

Deliard, who left Haiti for the United States more than two decades ago and is organizing a Monday protest in Fort Lauderdale, said he agrees ''100 percent'' with Martinez.

''I told the people, don't bring any Haitian flags,'' he said. ``There is a reason you love your country. But the reason we come to America is for a better life. If they give us shelter and opportunity, we ought to appreciate that.''

Martinez, speaking hours after an immigration deal collapsed amid partisan bickering, expressed optimism that a compromise can still be reached.

Sitting in his Senate office, a painting of Cuban rafters on the wall behind him, Martinez said the coalition of Republicans and Democrats who declared victory on Thursday are eager to keep the issue alive when the Senate returns in two weeks from a spring recess.

''We still have a pretty solid deal going forward,'' Martinez said. 'All I heard from people on the floor was `Let's come back to it.' ''
 
Wouldnt it be funny that in United States, a latino community holds revolts etc to force U.S to give them status?

I feel its shame for every white/black americans who truely are the origin of this country, if some faction of population waves their own countries flag while asking the U.S government for privileges.

I believe that Immigration reform was all set to pass, however the rallies etc where lots of Senators saw Mexican and other flags made it personal. I saw lots of stories where Democrats & Republicans hated that they saw mexican flags. If these illegals are any smart, they should stop doing that...If they want the privilege to be Americans, shouldn't they show by waving American flags?
 
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wantmygcnow said:
Wouldnt it be funny that in United States, a latino community holds revolts etc to force U.S to give them status?

I feel its shame for every white/black americans who truely are the origin of this country, if some faction of population waves their own countries flag while asking the U.S government for privileges.

I believe that Immigration reform was all set to pass, however the rallies etc where lots of Senators saw Mexican and other flags made it personal. I saw lots of stories where Democrats & Republicans hated that they saw mexican flags. If these illegals are any smart, they should stop doing that...If they want the privilege to be Americans, shouldn't they show by waving American flags?

I disagree, is they were american citizens that would make sense, but they are not, they are illegal aliens and citizens of their countries trying to have some privileges, the same privileges they are gonna earn working hard, paying taxes, and having a clean record for 11 years before becoming american citizens, they are gonna earn it... , what the hell is wrong with waving other countries flags?? does that have anything to do with the fact that this people "deserve" or "not deserve" privileges...??...if some senators hate this, so we should not do it just to not make them angry, but deep inside I think there is nothing wrong with it......
a shame for the white/black americans??? come on....!!!
a shame for american are those who come here to violate the law..

Guacho.
 
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how are they gonna assimilate into society if they can't even have driver license ???..they have no status yet ..too early to say that just based on waving flags.

Guacho
 
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guacho said:
I disagree, is they were american citizens that would make sense, but they are not, they are illegal aliens and citizens of their countries trying to have some privileges, the same privileges they are gonna earn working hard, paying taxes, and having a clean record for 11 years before becoming american citizens, they are gonna earn it... , what the hell is wrong with waving other countries flags?? does that have anything to do with the fact that this people "deserve" or "not deserve" privileges...??...if some senators hate this, so we should not do it just to not make them angry, but deep inside I think there is nothing wrong with it......
a shame for the white/black americans??? come on....!!!


1. "a shame for american are those who come here to violate the law.."
Staying and working illegaly is a violation of a law. Not the criminal law but still a violation.

2. Illegal aliens want to get a status of permanent residents and/or citizens sometime in the future. So I cannot understand waving Mexican or any other flags in these rallyes. I do not understand the meaning. If that means they are showing they are proud to be citizens of Mexico or any other country and they love that country, what do they want from US? If their country cannot feed them and they are ASKING to become a legal resident of the US, a country that is feeding their families, they need proudly wave US flags.

3. Sure, their rights are beeing descriminating by paying them less and not giving privileges. BUT that is only because they are here ILLEGALY in the first place. They have chosen that illegal status which perhaps preferable then staying in Mexico or any other country...

Guacho.
 
Sorry I didn't mean submit in the quotted format.

1.Staying and working illegaly is a violation of a law. Not the criminal law but still a violation.

2. Illegal aliens want to get a status of permanent residents and/or citizens sometime in the future. So I cannot understand waving Mexican or any other flags in these rallyes. I do not understand the meaning. If that means they are showing they are proud to be citizens of Mexico or any other country and they love that country, what do they want from US? If their country cannot feed them and they are ASKING to become a legal resident of the US, a country that is feeding their families, they need proudly wave US flags.

3. Sure, their rights are beeing descriminating by paying them less and not giving privileges. BUT that is only because they are here ILLEGALY in the first place. They have chosen that illegal status which perhaps preferable then staying in Mexico or any other country...
 
guacho said:
how are they gonna assimilate into society if they can't even have driver license ???..they have no status yet ..too early to say that just based on waving flags.

Guacho

But isnt the first step towards empathy is to show that you are willing to be part of America? And by waving flags of other countries contradicts their desire to become legal participants in American society. Its clearly sending mix messages and thats why the senator is calling for American flags to be waved.
 
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wanttobefree said:
Sorry I didn't mean submit in the quotted format.

1.Staying and working illegaly is a violation of a law. Not the criminal law but still a violation.

2. Illegal aliens want to get a status of permanent residents and/or citizens sometime in the future. So I cannot understand waving Mexican or any other flags in these rallyes. I do not understand the meaning. If that means they are showing they are proud to be citizens of Mexico or any other country and they love that country, what do they want from US? If their country cannot feed them and they are ASKING to become a legal resident of the US, a country that is feeding their families, they need proudly wave US flags.

3. Sure, their rights are beeing descriminating by paying them less and not giving privileges. BUT that is only because they are here ILLEGALY in the first place. They have chosen that illegal status which perhaps preferable then staying in Mexico or any other country...


1. you said it..it is a violation, not a criminal as I meant.

2.you DO NOT need to understand why they wave their flags, they have the right to do so even if this bothers you and everybody else. The ones I'm talking about are being fed because they work hard in order to be fed.

3. they just seem to do fine with what they earn, is not only about money. YES, it is preferable to stay here illegaly than being in any other country when you cannot feed your family.

Guacho.
 
taurusborn said:
But isnt the first step towards empathy is to show that you are willing to be part of America? And by waving flags of other countries contradicts their desire to become legal participants in American society. Its clearly sending mix messages and thats why the senator is calling for American flags to be waved.


the first step is that if this law passed ( which I doubt ) people who has been here for 5 years or more would have to wait 11 years more before becoming citizens and then fully be part of this society...that is 16 years of being here, again , working hard, paying taxes and not commit any crime.....isn't this enough for you ????
if some senator and others take this flag issue as a mix message.....I'm sorry.

Guacho.
 
They have the "right" to wave the flag(s). But they have no right to be here in the first place. And the United Staes has the "right" to expel them.

There are people going to bat in Washington trying to work out some kind of legalization for these people. By waving these stupid flags make their job much more difficult.
 
guacho said:
1. you said it..it is a violation, not a criminal as I meant.

2.you DO NOT need to understand why they wave their flags, they have the right to do so even if this bothers you and everybody else. The ones I'm talking about are being fed because they work hard in order to be fed.

3. they just seem to do fine with what they earn, is not only about money. YES, it is preferable to stay here illegaly than being in any other country when you cannot feed your family.

Guacho.

Again, There are several kinds of laws, not only criminal law, So entering, staying or working illegaly is a violation of immigration (or however they call it) laws of the US. IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAWS.

Yes, the US gives freedom to wave flags and do many other things that these people couldn't possibly dream to do in their countries. However, it is absurd to go in front of the US Senate, waving flags of other countries and at the same time require something from Senate...

Sure they are getting paid "because they work hard in order to be fed" and sure they deserve to get paid for their work (even though they are here NOT LEGALLY) BUT these people need to understand and respect the US for letting them to do so therefore the only flag that deserves to be waven in front of the Senate in these specific case is the US flag.
 
phil-NYC said:
They have the "right" to wave the flag(s). But they have no right to be here in the first place. And the United Staes has the "right" to expel them.

There are people going to bat in Washington trying to work out some kind of legalization for these people. By waving these stupid flags make their job much more difficult.


you are absolutely right, but this option is not realistic at all...did you hear in CNN recently how much it would cost to deport over 12 million people???.....

Guacho
 
guacho said:
1. you said it..it is a violation, not a criminal as I meant.

2.you DO NOT need to understand why they wave their flags, they have the right to do so even if this bothers you and everybody else. The ones I'm talking about are being fed because they work hard in order to be fed.

3. they just seem to do fine with what they earn, is not only about money. YES, it is preferable to stay here illegaly than being in any other country when you cannot feed your family.

Guacho.

Guacho, Rights is totally different thing. Yes every individual has the right to waive their countries flag, however this issue we are talking about is, waiving the flag in front of another government and asking for benefit from that country. If they want to be member of this country legally, they should show some respect. Everyone who works gets fed. This country feeds them...Feeds me when I work. So does it mean I should waive my country's flag when I go to pick up my paycheck?

Nationalism is the right of every individual but it should be shown at the right place of time. LIke this article mentioned, if there was a latino parade honoring their history or culture, they have every right to waive their flags.

If I had gone to my asylum interview and put on my countries flag and said my country is great..Dont you think the officer would've said go to hell then?

Some immigrants think that getting a benefit from U.S government is a right. Its not a right. Its a privilege. They just can't show up in millions and try to change laws, it is totally wrong.

I totally understand why they sneak in the country and what the need. I have worked with Hispanics when I started out in a fast food joint and they are nice/hard working people. One problem for them is that they fail to educate themselves, even their kids. They fail to set new standards but follow the same pattern others in their community have. Assimliating into the society is a very huge in this country.

We should be glad U.S is not like France or other european countries where they make a point to NOT assimilate you. IF someone in Europe, held a rally and waived their flags, I will applaud them because its how the government treats foreigners over there.. BUt over here every foreigner can be assimilated in the society...If you don't choose to, then you shouldn't be here.
 
wanttobefree said:
Again, There are several kinds of laws, not only criminal law, So entering, staying or working illegaly is a violation of immigration (or however they call it) laws of the US. IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAWS.

Yes, the US gives freedom to wave flags and do many other things that these people couldn't possibly dream to do in their countries. However, it is absurd to go in front of the US Senate, waving flags of other countries and at the same time require something from Senate...

Sure they are getting paid "because they work hard in order to be fed" and sure they deserve to get paid for their work (even though they are here NOT LEGALLY) BUT these people need to understand and respect the US for letting them to do so therefore the only flag that deserves to be waven in front of the Senate in these specific case is the US flag.


Absurd to wave a foreign flag in front of the senate????.....in what world do you live ...?? that's everything but absurd.

Forntunately this is a free country, ....i think nobody has been arrest for that.....right??

"understand and respect the US " so you consider unrespecful waving a foreign flag in front of the senate?? ..you need to wake up........

Guacho.
 
guacho said:
you are absolutely right, but this option is not realistic at all...did you hear in CNN recently how much it would cost to deport over 12 million people???.....

Guacho


I agree with you. Doing it would be both impractical and immoral.

However, the goal we are talking about here is getting a legalization program passed in Congress. The status quo is not acceptable for those of us who believe in a more humane America. Those flags are just costing us the support that we cannot afford to lose.
 
wantmygcnow said:
Guacho, Rights is totally different thing. Yes every individual has the right to waive their countries flag, however this issue we are talking about is, waiving the flag in front of another government and asking for benefit from that country. If they want to be member of this country legally, they should show some respect. Everyone who works gets fed. This country feeds them...Feeds me when I work. So does it mean I should waive my country's flag when I go to pick up my paycheck?

Nationalism is the right of every individual but it should be shown at the right place of time. LIke this article mentioned, if there was a latino parade honoring their history or culture, they have every right to waive their flags.

If I had gone to my asylum interview and put on my countries flag and said my country is great..Dont you think the officer would've said go to hell then?

Some immigrants think that getting a benefit from U.S government is a right. Its not a right. Its a privilege. They just can't show up in millions and try to change laws, it is totally wrong.

I totally understand why they sneak in the country and what the need. I have worked with Hispanics when I started out in a fast food joint and they are nice/hard working people. One problem for them is that they fail to educate themselves, even their kids. They fail to set new standards but follow the same pattern others in their community have. Assimliating into the society is a very huge in this country.

We should be glad U.S is not like France or other european countries where they make a point to NOT assimilate you. IF someone in Europe, held a rally and waived their flags, I will applaud them because its how the government treats foreigners over there.. BUt over here every foreigner can be assimilated in the society...If you don't choose to, then you shouldn't be here.

about tha flag and you asylum interview, that's a very diferent story, you would never wave a flag in front of an immigration officer and claiming prosecution at the same time.
I agree when you said that most of the hispanic population fail in assimilate into this society, but saying that you should not be here if you choose no to do it, it is too much for me.... if you define fail to assimilate as waving a foreign flag on the streets I really have to disagree, remember that the hispanic population in this country is considerable, it is part of the society not only the illegal immigrants but those who have been here for many decades......you are basically saying that most of the hispanics shoudn't be here just because they don't integrate themselves fully into the society...maybe they don't want to.....and as long as they respect the law ( not crossing the border illegaly ), and demostrate to be good citizens...to me....they certainly deserve to be here.

Guacho.
 
thankful said:
I agree with you. Doing it would be both impractical and immoral.

However, the goal we are talking about here is getting a legalization program passed in Congress. The status quo is not acceptable for those of us who believe in a more humane America. Those flags are just costing us the support that we cannot afford to lose.


thankful...illegal hispanic soldairs have died in irak.....I have been in this country five years, this is the first time I see so many hispanics waving foreign flags everywhere......this does no happen everyday.....what is the big deal??? could you explain in what way those flags are costing the support...?/ thank you

Guacho
 
guacho said:
thankful...illegal hispanic soldairs have died in irak.....I have been in this country five years, this is the first time I see so many hispanics waving foreign flags everywhere......this does no happen everyday.....what is the big deal??? could you explain in what way those flags are costing the support...?/ thank you

Guacho


It is really no big deal to me personally.

But it is a big deal to people who have the power to decide if there is going to be a legalization program this year. I am a realist and my foremost goal is to get a legalization law enacted soon to help those people out. I worked part time for two years in the immigrant advocacy field. I still talk to people in the field. And they say that waving those flags is creating a huge problem in their private lobbying on the Hill.
 
Only in America.....

Only in America can you come in illegally and expect your "Rights" to be respected! Only in America...

America is a great country where people (from any origin) are given rights almost equal as to the residents. If we are protesting the unfairness of the immigration laws and we are trying to change that saying that we "deserve" to be here and that we "deserve" to become citizens, the least we can do is respect the feelings of the american people (and the senators) even if we feel it's our "Right" to wave our flags. The image we need to show is the one that says "yes, we are foreigners by birth, but we're americans by choice! Therefore you should consider your laws and adopt us as one of yours" And I think waving another country's flag contradicts this image!!!

Anyway, it's only in America that this is possible. I am sure if it was in any third world country (or maybe even in Europe), they would have said "Go to hell in route to your country and wave your flags there"!
 
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