Pushing of I 485 filling as an interim relief or not

[LC_Ki_Kahaani]

Going illegal

What about going illegal (cancel the H1B permit) before some sort of amnesty bill is signed? It seems more likely to happen than any other relief bill for the legals.

 

[GotPR?]

TN Visa is not the regular Non Immigrant visa, there is no limitation for number of TN applicants and person can start to work immediately and that visa can be extended unlimited number of times. It has special level of trust.

Hmm,, where are you going ? Obviously, you are way off the track now.
Nobody is arguing TN has no quota, or TN can be extended.
The fact is TN is not allowed dual intent, however, in fact, a lot of those runs AOS.
Simply, B is too short to get GC, and F is usually busy at school because they want better education for the future. That is the reason you don't see many cases that B or F holders run EB AOS, but it does not mean AOS is impossible to F/B.
Explain why AOS is allowed to TN, but not allowed to B/F.

And I do not even see the reasons for TN visa holder to file in AOS, consular processing is the most applicable case for him/her.

Again, TN could run AOS.

 

[sfmars]

What is your point ?

Hmm,, where are you going ? Obviously, you are way off the track now.
Nobody is arguing TN has no quota, or TN can be extended.
The fact is TN is not allowed dual intent, however, in fact, a lot of those runs AOS.
Simply, B is too short to get GC, and F is usually busy at school because they want better education for the future. That is the reason you don't see many cases that B or F holders run EB AOS, but it does not mean AOS is impossible to F/B.
Explain why AOS is allowed to TN, but not allowed to B/F.

Again, TN could run AOS.

Unless you/UN or anybody else says I know personally at least one individual who got EB (Employment based) greencard being all the time on B/F visa, all what you both said can not be considered as a good argument for discussion.

"All examples" I saw from UN that someone tried or wanted to get greencard having B/F visa.

I do not even want to talk about TN visa, although I could (30% people working with me - citizens of Canada).

I raised this issue because It looks like that UN is trying to convience everybody in this forum that each individual coming to US on B1/B2 is going to apply for EB greencard in EB2 category.

 

[sfmars]

Why does anyone need to convince you???

Law is the law. Maybe you should read it.

It was not the point of discussion to prove that law is law.

Can I understand your answer as you do not know such individuals ?

 

[alterego2]

Delusion

sfmars,

Delusion is defined as a fixed false belief that is impervious to reason.

Everyone is discussing the ability to file 485 in the absence of a current PD. The rule is not even implemented yet, and retrogression is a relatively recent event and so is PERM/140 premium but in the system as it currently stands it is definitely possible that PERM/premium 140 filing could fly through within a couple months, after that what is to stop someone filing a 485 if they arrived on a tourist visa? And if history in these matters teaches us anything if it can happen, smart alecs(not the least of which are opportunistic lawyers) will find the way!

I hope you can see this reasoning.

 

[sfmars]

Everything I say; there is personal experience with. If i start with disclaimer or "in my opinion" then no experience with it.

It is such a simple concept and practiced many times. Used to happen with labor substitution when priority dates were current. Will give everyone two examples:

Person came on F-1 to go to flying school. This was in 2001. In July 2002 he got substitute labor because original beneficiary was deported. They substited him onto this labor. Abilityt to pay issue, which I solved. He received greencard in November 2006. Just in case it matters; he was from pakistan.

Person came on F-1. Went to school here in usa to become physical therapist. Filed directly as Schedule A. Got stuck with a few RFE's. One of them was to prove while he was on F-1; how he was supporting himself. He showed evidence that his relatives were supporting him. Then he got stuck in name check. Sent to local office. His case was approved in September 2006.

It is commonly known that people who are nurses can't get h-1b. How do you think they adjust status. Which status do you think they adjust from? Visitor, Student?

I hope you are saying the truth, especially about student of flying school.
It is really touching story. That makes sense to control flying students from Pakistan

But seriously, I do not see problem for nurse to get H1B visa if she has bachelor degree (may be it is not common).

BTW: I think it was you who ensured us several times that only way for nurses to get greencard through consular processing but not through adjustments of status. Did you change your opinion now ?

And finaly there is H1C visa.

 

[envision]

sfmars, I know a Bangladeshi guy who came on a B2 visa via Dubai and got a green card. He applied for refugee status and was refused. In fact the immigration judge encouraged him to find a hospital to sponsor him because he is a surgical nurse . Long story short , a hospital agreed.... he went back to school to brush up on his skills and voila he along with his wife and 3 kids are now permanent residents.

 

[nyc8300]

UN,
In your view, is it possible to implement I -485 filing relief 'with checks' that work around the loopholes you are taking about or is it not possible to do this.

Offcourse if somebody is bent upon getting a GC, he can get it and doesn't need I-485 relief. USCIS will be expected to close these loopholes from time to time as part of the normal evolution....

Before retrogression, many nurses would come here on visit visa; do their exams, schooling and then file 140/485.

However, there was a brief time between retrogression and special quota for nurses. during this time; nurses couldn't stay here long enough or wait to file 485 due to retrogression. They had to go back and wait it out.

Once Schedule A came out with special quota then they could go back to old way from b1 or f1 to greencard or through consular route.

Nurses can't get h-1b. H-1c is very restrictive.

 

[sfmars]

sfmars, I know a Bangladeshi guy who came on a B2 visa via Dubai and got a green card. He applied for refugee status and was refused. In fact the immigration judge encouraged him to find a hospital to sponsor him because he is a surgical nurse . Long story short , a hospital agreed.... he went back to school to brush up on his skills and voila he along with his wife and 3 kids are now permanent residents.

That's OK. I cordially belive you, although it is really strange that immigration judge encourage someone.

I did not say it is absolutely not possible just compare number of people in B1/B2/F1/F2
who got greencards with H1B. Include example of your friend and couple of examples from UN. 99% of EB greencards had H1B visa in the past.

I do not see problems even if someone comes here on B1/B2 visa and files in EB3 category as skilled worker using settled agreement.

I copy my point from my previous post:
I raised this issue because It looks like that UN is trying to convience everybody in this forum that each individual coming to US on B1/B2 is going to apply for EB greencard in EB2 category.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

That's OK. I cordially belive you, although it is really strange that immigration judge encourage someone.

I did not say it is absolutely not possible just compare number of people in B1/B2/F1/F2
who got greencards with H1B. Include example of your friend and couple of examples from UN. 99% of EB greencards had H1B visa in the past.

I do not see problems even if someone comes here on B1/B2 visa and files in EB3 category as skilled worker using settled agreement.

I copy my point from my previous post:
I raised this issue because It looks like that UN is trying to convience everybody in this forum that each individual coming to US on B1/B2 is going to apply for EB greencard in EB2 category.

sfmars,
I think you are thinking in terms of the current situation but if this law(proposal will most likely end up at uscis trash can) comes there is no current and retrogressed in any category eb3 or eb2. Having said that, your original point that it creates backlog at uscis is very much valid in uscis's point of view. IMHO, IV and others can try push this but will surely burn their money and energy.

 

[sfmars]

mistakenly copies nurse issue into previous posting.

Here is a link with office of business liaision that discusses h-1b for nurses.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/EIB19.pdf

UN,

The above mentioned document purely support my point of view.
If nurse has bachelor's degree it is generally not a problem for particular employer, hospital to hire nurse on the H1B basis.

 

[jacfield]

There is such a nurse shortage that hopistal will hire any nurse with a license, regardless of whether he/she has a bachelor or associate degree. Besides, most people will go for associate because it's cheaper and makes no difference in terms of job prospect

 

[sfmars]

It doesn't support your views. My observations of your postings are you read what you want to read into it.

It is 100% applicable to you and your style of communication.
It is not the first time I see that you quote something or attach documents and transform information in your way, the way you like.

I understand as it says if position requires Bachelor's degree and specialty occupation there is no problem for H1B, it is general H1B rule.
And it is very easy for hospital to prove that nurse's position requires nurse with bachelor degree with special occupation.

btw; hospitals don't get nurses here on greencard. They have same system as IT bodyshoppers. Bodyshoppers sponsor them for greencard and then outsource them to hospitals.

It is very interesting point of view. Can you name couple of such bodyshops (it means nurse contractors ...?) ? Look at the example of envision's friend,
per my understanding, what he wrote, his friend did not have experience with bodyshop.

 

[concorde]

fixing the broken immigration system

It was interesting to read many many of the views here. Here are some of my thoughts -

As obvious to all of us Demand > Supply (I should say far greater). So whatever measures are put in place it is not going to satisfy everybody and won't hold good for long.

What can be done to alleviate the current retrogression situation is to -
1) Not count dependents against the employment based quota and just count the principal applicant.
2) Add another priority EB6; all LCs filed under 245(i) will be alloted GCs against this category only. EB6 will be the lowest priority in the green card tier.
On a case by case basis an EB6 applicant can move to the other priorties based on extensive proof of why legal status could not
be maintained for example (just a random one) - Say a sick worker due to medical reasons could not report to work for an extended period and lost
the job.

Longer term
The current multiple stage system for green cards is highly inefficient & cumbersome from the point of view of all the
parties involved - beneficiary, the company and USCIS.

The solution would be to collapse the green card application process into a single integrated application packet. Internally
the USCIS can do whatever it needs to do ..labor clearance, immigration petition etc. ... all kinds of messy stuff which
the end beneficiaries/companies need not know about. This would help the USCIS determine with more than 90% accuracy the approximate
time taken for an application to see the light at the end of the tunnel. All that would remain (from the outside world point of view)
would be one long line of GC applications from which chunks of (say 140,000) applications keep getting approved.

Right now it is impossible to determine how many are in the GC race bacause of the potential of overlap of 3 stages (of course, EB1 has only 2).
- how many are in LC stage (pending or approved; old and PERM system)? anybodies guess
- how many have 140s approved without filing 485?
- how many have pending 140s and 485s (concurrent filings)?
- how many have 2 stages approved but waiting for 485 filing?
- how many have 2 stages approved with 485 pending?

So basically because of the above complex calculation mess it is impossible for somebody entering the process to tell how long
it is going to take.

 

[purplehazea]

UN,
In your view, is it possible to implement I -485 filing relief 'with checks' that work around the loopholes you are taking about or is it not possible to do this.

Offcourse if somebody is bent upon getting a GC, he can get it and doesn't need I-485 relief. USCIS will be expected to close these loopholes from time to time as part of the normal evolution....

You are even more biased than khodalmd. Read your above post carefully. You are saying that ability to file I485 without checks is okay because sooner or later USCIS will plug the loopholes. Besides you ought to be respectful to members here who are non native english speakers. Don't just insult people as a means to forwarding your own agenda here. You should be ashamed of your behavior and claim of linguistic superiority.

For the record I support I485 filing without current PD only and only if there are detailed checks upfront to stop and prevent exploitation of the rule.

 

[nyc8300]

Too far reaching dude, too far!. This is when things are rational....

It was interesting to read many many of the views here. Here are some of my thoughts -

As obvious to all of us Demand > Supply (I should say far greater). So whatever measures are put in place it is not going to satisfy everybody and won't hold good for long.

What can be done to alleviate the current retrogression situation is to -
1) Not count dependents against the employment based quota and just count the principal applicant.
2) Add another priority EB6; all LCs filed under 245(i) will be alloted GCs against this category only. EB6 will be the lowest priority in the green card tier.
On a case by case basis an EB6 applicant can move to the other priorties based on extensive proof of why legal status could not
be maintained for example (just a random one) - Say a sick worker due to medical reasons could not report to work for an extended period and lost
the job.

Longer term
The current multiple stage system for green cards is highly inefficient & cumbersome from the point of view of all the
parties involved - beneficiary, the company and USCIS.

The solution would be to collapse the green card application process into a single integrated application packet. Internally
the USCIS can do whatever it needs to do ..labor clearance, immigration petition etc. ... all kinds of messy stuff which
the end beneficiaries/companies need not know about. This would help the USCIS determine with more than 90% accuracy the approximate
time taken for an application to see the light at the end of the tunnel. All that would remain (from the outside world point of view)
would be one long line of GC applications from which chunks of (say 140,000) applications keep getting approved.

Right now it is impossible to determine how many are in the GC race bacause of the potential of overlap of 3 stages (of course, EB1 has only 2).
- how many are in LC stage (pending or approved; old and PERM system)? anybodies guess
- how many have 140s approved without filing 485?
- how many have pending 140s and 485s (concurrent filings)?
- how many have 2 stages approved but waiting for 485 filing?
- how many have 2 stages approved with 485 pending?

So basically because of the above complex calculation mess it is impossible for somebody entering the process to tell how long
it is going to take.

 

[concorde]

sfmars,

Delusion is defined as a fixed false belief that is impervious to reason.

Everyone is discussing the ability to file 485 in the absence of a current PD. The rule is not even implemented yet, and retrogression is a relatively recent event and so is PERM/140 premium but in the system as it currently stands it is definitely possible that PERM/premium 140 filing could fly through within a couple months, after that what is to stop someone filing a 485 if they arrived on a tourist visa? And if history in these matters teaches us anything if it can happen, smart alecs(not the least of which are opportunistic lawyers) will find the way!

I hope you can see this reasoning.

Quite simple to fix this. Applicant should have spent a minimum of 6 continuous years in the US on a work visa (H1) AND must have an approved 140. This should be a benefit to law abiding immigrants with a genuine intent to immigrate (not some happy go lucky tourist trying his/her luck due to a brwainwave) and to those who demonstrate an intent not to misuse the immigration system (trying to immigrate when on B1 which does not have dual intent).

 

[nyc8300]

Makes sense, details may be tweaked by USCIS....!
Hopefully we see more positive ideas like this.

Quite simple to fix this. Applicant should have spent a minimum of 6 continuous years in the US on a work visa (H1) AND must have an approved 140. This should be a benefit to law abiding immigrants with a genuine intent to immigrate (not some happy go lucky tourist trying his/her luck due to a brwainwave) and to those who demonstrate an intent not to misuse the immigration system (trying to immigrate when on B1 which does not have dual intent).

 

[nyc8300]

I really could not understand what the guy was trying to say/emphasize; his grammar was all over and he did not seem like non native english.

My agenda is exactly as yours i.e. I-485 filing without current PD only with checks; however we know that with immigration or taxes, people will find a way to get around it, so ultimately rule making/checks will be an ongoing process for the USCIS.

You are even more biased than khodalmd. Read your above post carefully. You are saying that ability to file I485 without checks is okay because sooner or later USCIS will plug the loopholes. Besides you ought to be respectful to members here who are non native english speakers. Don't just insult people as a means to forwarding your own agenda here. You should be ashamed of your behavior and claim of linguistic superiority.

For the record I support I485 filing without current PD only and only if there are detailed checks upfront to stop and prevent exploitation of the rule.

 

[-me-]

Why 6? Let's set it up to 60. Then no retrogression will happen ever.
Seriously, your spouse will be unemployed for 6 years. You kids won't have a chance to work part-time while they are in college. You will be working for six years under the pressure to be kicked out at any time and become out-of-status immediately. Are you sure, you like the picture?

Quite simple to fix this. Applicant should have spent a minimum of 6 continuous years in the US on a work visa (H1) AND must have an approved 140. This should be a benefit to law abiding immigrants with a genuine intent to immigrate (not some happy go lucky tourist trying his/her luck due to a brwainwave) and to those who demonstrate an intent not to misuse the immigration system (trying to immigrate when on B1 which does not have dual intent).