pros and cons of traffic ticket disclosure

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Physicist

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I know that the traffic ticket issue has been discussed ad nauseam (as an insomniac, I have read through most of them). I'm not trying to re-open that debate, but rather make sure I understand the pros and cons correctly in order to make an informed decision. I'm of course talking about whether or not to mention in N-400 about a small number of traffic tickets all below $500 and not involving DUI or anything serious.

Reading the instructions, there is no doubt that all tickets have to be disclosed. The advantage of doing so, it seems, is that it gives USCIS absolutely no opportunity to come back later and say that you committed perjury and should be de-naturalized. On the other hand, the chances of that happening seem extremely low, and I have never heard of such a case.

Is there any disadvantage to disclosing tickets? It seems to me there might be a couple, though I am not sure. Does anyone know if ticking one of those arrested/detained/cited box automatically slows down your application in some way, because they have to perform any additional checks or procedures? I don't think there is any evidence for that, but I am not sure. Another potential disadvantage is the IO demanding to see proof of payment or court documents, even though the instructions say not required. This might further slow down the application.

Have I summarized the arguments for and against correctly? Anything I am missing?

Seems to me a pretty close call - maybe I'll just toss a coin?
 
Physicist said:
I know that the traffic ticket issue has been discussed ad nauseam (as an insomniac, I have read through most of them). I'm not trying to re-open that debate, but rather make sure I understand the pros and cons correctly in order to make an informed decision. I'm of course talking about whether or not to mention in N-400 about a small number of traffic tickets all below $500 and not involving DUI or anything serious.

Reading the instructions, there is no doubt that all tickets have to be disclosed. The advantage of doing so, it seems, is that it gives USCIS absolutely no opportunity to come back later and say that you committed perjury and should be de-naturalized. On the other hand, the chances of that happening seem extremely low, and I have never heard of such a case.

Is there any disadvantage to disclosing tickets? It seems to me there might be a couple, though I am not sure. Does anyone know if ticking one of those arrested/detained/cited box automatically slows down your application in some way, because they have to perform any additional checks or procedures? I don't think there is any evidence for that, but I am not sure. Another potential disadvantage is the IO demanding to see proof of payment or court documents, even though the instructions say not required. This might further slow down the application.

Have I summarized the arguments for and against correctly? Anything I am missing?

Seems to me a pretty close call - maybe I'll just toss a coin?
Click to expand...

The document that I've reposted countless times on this very forum clearly states that minor traffic tickets that didn't result in an arrest DO NOT need to be disclosed. My experiences at the interview and even the oath support this point even further. At my oath ceremony, the IO in charge stopped the procedure to explicitly state that she doesn't care about traffic tickets and specifically instructed all oath takers not to disclose them. She even underscored her statement by saying "arrests only - no traffic tickets". When one of the soon-to-be-citizens did not follow her instructions and attempted to disclose a traffic ticket anyway, the IO once again restated in a very loud voice that traffic tickets are not to be disclosed.

Here's the link to the document I was referring to earlier:

http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/About Us... Guide/Permanent_Residents_Naturalization.pdf

As you can see, this is an official publication, available from the USCIS website. Pay specific attention to the top section of page 60. I'd love to see the USCIS attempt to denaturalize someone for not disclosing minor traffic tickets, when they specifically instruct applicants not to disclose them.

The positives of disclosing traffic tickets? None that I can think of. In fact, if you choose to do this, you'd better make sure to disclose every parking ticket you've ever received as well. In fact, I'd you've ever passed through a police checkpoint (DUI, seat belt, etc.), you've been detained - you should disclose that as well. To get really technical, having to undergo a secondary inspection at an airport also constitutes detention.

The negatives? Having to compile a list of all tickets and jump through hoops to obtain proof of payment and/or court dispositions. The possibility of getting "A decision cannot be made at this time" result at the interview and wait for a supervisor to go over your application. The risk of getting a clueless IO with a chip on their shoulder and having your application denied and having to appeal (extra headache, more money out of pocket). This actually happened to a forum member a couple of years ago. If I recall correctly, he had 4 speeding tickets in an 8 year period, and the IO denied his application for poor moral character. This person successfully appealed the decision.

The likelihood of the latter scenario happening is very slim, but not impossible. If you feel wary about not disclosing traffic tickets, print out the document I linked above and bring it to the interview.
 
Physicist said:
Is there any disadvantage to disclosing tickets?
Click to expand...

The disadvantage would be that an IO may use discretionary powers to request for proof of payment of such (minor) tickets at interview, or otherwise try to make issue of a disclosed minor traffic ticket.
 
Thanks for the replies.

As I said, I have no wish to debate this issue - I'm pretty sure *everything* than can be said about it was said in the ~90 pages of the sticky thread!

So if I understand your opinions correctly, I am choosing between the risk of getting de-naturalized by lying on the N-400 (nil to extremely low), and the risk of getting delayed or denied by some incompetent or hard-*** IO (again, extremely low, but probably higher than the other risk).

Based on this risk analysis, I will probably not disclose my two tickets.

By the way, I am curious that for the I-485 USCIS made the instructions more explicitly clear.

Thanks again.
 
I did not mention it on N-400. But I had gone to court and that ticket was converted to Parking Ticket. I had got the driving abstract from NYS DMV and it was not that either.
 
The 90 page document referred above is a customer service guide used by CSR at USCIS. This document is NOT listed anywhere under the citizenship webpage, only the form N-400 and the Guide to Naturalization are listed there. One has to dig deep into USCIS website to get to this document.

There obviously is a disconnect between this 90 page document and the M-476, Guide to Naturalization. For example it would appear that if the fine paid were over $500, they need to be disclosed according M-476. The document listed above has NO mention of the $500 threshold.

I would make my decision on disclosing simply on what is mentioned on the N-400 instructions and the guide to naturalization. If directions on those documents are unclear, I would err on the side of caution.

I had one red-light ticket, mentioned it on the form and was not asked for any further documentation at the interview.

Bottom line, it is one's personal call.
 
In my opinion, its not really a choice. These should be disclosed otherwise its just withholding information which has worst consequences if the officer chooses to raise the issue. I disclosed mine and in my interview it was as if the officer was expecting them to be listed. He just confirmed that these were non-DUI related and didn't ask me for any proof of payment. Maybe a couple of year ago, it was more of a choice, but to me the N-400 question didn't appear to be optional. It asked for all citations and doesn't say "except traffic citations".
 
LongRoadToGC said:
In my opinion, its not really a choice. These should be disclosed otherwise its just withholding information which has worst consequences if the officer chooses to raise the issue. I disclosed mine and in my interview it was as if the officer was expecting them to be listed. He just confirmed that these were non-DUI related and didn't ask me for any proof of payment. Maybe a couple of year ago, it was more of a choice, but to me the N-400 question didn't appear to be optional. It asked for all citations and doesn't say "except traffic citations".
Click to expand...

Did you also disclose your parking tickets and, if any, all the times you've ever been stopped by a police officer and weren't free to leave until permitted?
 
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