desinpardesh
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Program on Gujarat @9:00 on PBS on 9/19
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patienceGC
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Tragic
It was shocking.
A clear display of the pseudo secularism boasted by India. It’s a pity that people like Narendra 'butcher' Modi are still not in jail.
The people who were interviewed were typical Gundas who parade as Hindu Saviors. They were a disgrace to Hindus. The carnage in Gujarat cannot be justified by any rational mind!
Here are some of the lines from the so called "hindus" :
" they should give us the 3 temples… if they don’t we will take 3000" - Bhat (This guy looks like a circus freak and a Thug combined!)
" what happened in Gujarat should be a lesson… it was necessary" – A really ugly Hindu woman!
I was impressed by a Gandhian (who's name I cannot recollect), who spoke perfect English. One can easily tell the difference between him and the other thugs! He said " the RSS movement is just fascism "!
The article did downplay the Godhra incident. Of course that incident does not justify the killings...hell no
I don’t understand how the RSS, which killed Gandhiji, still hasn’t been banned!
I am a Hindu but I am not so proud now.
It was shocking.
A clear display of the pseudo secularism boasted by India. It’s a pity that people like Narendra 'butcher' Modi are still not in jail.
The people who were interviewed were typical Gundas who parade as Hindu Saviors. They were a disgrace to Hindus. The carnage in Gujarat cannot be justified by any rational mind!
Here are some of the lines from the so called "hindus" :
" they should give us the 3 temples… if they don’t we will take 3000" - Bhat (This guy looks like a circus freak and a Thug combined!)
" what happened in Gujarat should be a lesson… it was necessary" – A really ugly Hindu woman!
I was impressed by a Gandhian (who's name I cannot recollect), who spoke perfect English. One can easily tell the difference between him and the other thugs! He said " the RSS movement is just fascism "!
The article did downplay the Godhra incident. Of course that incident does not justify the killings...hell no
I don’t understand how the RSS, which killed Gandhiji, still hasn’t been banned!
I am a Hindu but I am not so proud now.
It was sad..
It is a shame that at this should be happening. No religion preaches hatred and no religious person would indulge in the genocide that happened.
As usual religion is being perverted for political goals.
I hope and pray that better sense prevails and people learn to co-exist peacefully
It is a shame that at this should be happening. No religion preaches hatred and no religious person would indulge in the genocide that happened.
As usual religion is being perverted for political goals.
I hope and pray that better sense prevails and people learn to co-exist peacefully
patienceGC
Registered Users (C)
asdasd
I think that is an invalid arguement.
58 people died in Godhra. Why the heck should the whole state go on a rampage and kill 2000?
And did they attack just people in Godhra or just militants? no! They killed innocent people from all over and the govt simply watched! The muslims killed RSS people who were returning from Ayodhya... who in my opinion are fanatics who are not of much use anyway.
Hindus started the whole thing. There was no reason to destroy the mosque. There are plenty of temples. And if someone argues that it is the "exact" place of Rama's birth (if at all there was), he/she should be paraded as the most stupidest person on earth.
Maybe the muslims built mosques over temples but you know what, thats history. Muslims are very much a part of Indian history. You cannot rewrite history. That is like America bringing racism back. How would you feel if the English took you as a slave? Its over. We have to deal with it.
Vicarious punishment is not acceptable. According to your arguemnt if someone kills your relative you can kill them or their relative because you cannot "help it"? I dont think so! No sane law allows that. Revenge was not what happened. It was genocide! Pure unadulterated fascism! People who were not even remotely connected to the Godhra were killing others.
RSS, Shivsena and BJP will bring destruction to India. We dont need Pakisthan!
I think that is an invalid arguement.
58 people died in Godhra. Why the heck should the whole state go on a rampage and kill 2000?
And did they attack just people in Godhra or just militants? no! They killed innocent people from all over and the govt simply watched! The muslims killed RSS people who were returning from Ayodhya... who in my opinion are fanatics who are not of much use anyway.
Hindus started the whole thing. There was no reason to destroy the mosque. There are plenty of temples. And if someone argues that it is the "exact" place of Rama's birth (if at all there was), he/she should be paraded as the most stupidest person on earth.
Maybe the muslims built mosques over temples but you know what, thats history. Muslims are very much a part of Indian history. You cannot rewrite history. That is like America bringing racism back. How would you feel if the English took you as a slave? Its over. We have to deal with it.
Vicarious punishment is not acceptable. According to your arguemnt if someone kills your relative you can kill them or their relative because you cannot "help it"? I dont think so! No sane law allows that. Revenge was not what happened. It was genocide! Pure unadulterated fascism! People who were not even remotely connected to the Godhra were killing others.
RSS, Shivsena and BJP will bring destruction to India. We dont need Pakisthan!
I only watched the latter half of it, it is airing again this evening at 5.00 and sunday at 3pm. The shocking part was of the rss schools, we don't want india to be like pakistan with all those madrasa trained fanataics, RSS is doing the same thing with young indians in those schools.
After watching that show I felt so ashamed , we can't let this happen to our country , lets educate ourselves into what is going on and don't ever side with or empathise with fanatics, be it any where, any religion, race or form.
We are all Gods children.
After watching that show I felt so ashamed , we can't let this happen to our country , lets educate ourselves into what is going on and don't ever side with or empathise with fanatics, be it any where, any religion, race or form.
We are all Gods children.
Vengan,
Do u really think RSS is doing same thing as Madarsas being run in Pak and India and elsewhere? Have u heard of various schools and village uplift program (all over the country) which RSS never sings about from rooftops?
I really wish u had dug in more to get ur information polished rather than just relying on this single PBS broadcast or more.
I am no RSS follower but I feel least ashamed to say that I am very proud of their beliefs and nationalism which is very hard to match.
I fully agree with anyone that violence of any kind shouldn't be acceptable.
But, there is a big but here. FOr how long can one tolerate communalism/conversion. It took one burning of Mr. Stains (that was really unfortunate) to let others realize that "no more conversions in this country", else in no time it was getting rampant like a virus having already engulfed most of NE states like Mizoram).
In the same coin, Gujarat was very bad from violence and Administration's handling viewpoint, but afterall, given the understanding level of masses (whose advantage is always taken of by a few religious fanatics and political perverts), this communal violence won't stop.
Now that Gujarat has paid a price thru this attack and counter-attack, I think one community will think twice before killing the other community people (unprovoked) again to begin with (they have been instigating this thing for decades without sufficient hitting-back for several decades now).
Do u really think RSS is doing same thing as Madarsas being run in Pak and India and elsewhere? Have u heard of various schools and village uplift program (all over the country) which RSS never sings about from rooftops?
I really wish u had dug in more to get ur information polished rather than just relying on this single PBS broadcast or more.
I am no RSS follower but I feel least ashamed to say that I am very proud of their beliefs and nationalism which is very hard to match.
I fully agree with anyone that violence of any kind shouldn't be acceptable.
But, there is a big but here. FOr how long can one tolerate communalism/conversion. It took one burning of Mr. Stains (that was really unfortunate) to let others realize that "no more conversions in this country", else in no time it was getting rampant like a virus having already engulfed most of NE states like Mizoram).
In the same coin, Gujarat was very bad from violence and Administration's handling viewpoint, but afterall, given the understanding level of masses (whose advantage is always taken of by a few religious fanatics and political perverts), this communal violence won't stop.
Now that Gujarat has paid a price thru this attack and counter-attack, I think one community will think twice before killing the other community people (unprovoked) again to begin with (they have been instigating this thing for decades without sufficient hitting-back for several decades now).
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This world still exists, since there are persons like Patience GC
I am impressed with the writings of Patience GC. God help we have peace in the whole world. We should be spending our energy and the brains in constructive methods.
I am sure we are all kids of GOD and there is no religion that teaches to do bad to any one. All religions lead to the same path-to God. Why donot we teach this to our generation and make this world a peaceful place to live.
Keep up the good thoughts, Patience GC
I am impressed with the writings of Patience GC. God help we have peace in the whole world. We should be spending our energy and the brains in constructive methods.
I am sure we are all kids of GOD and there is no religion that teaches to do bad to any one. All religions lead to the same path-to God. Why donot we teach this to our generation and make this world a peaceful place to live.
Keep up the good thoughts, Patience GC
Nisha,
It's very easy for us "educated folks" to think that we should live in harmony and all religions r good etc,. etc.
But on practical grounds, given the population of country like India and their level of education, it is easy said than done.
Sitting in the comforts of our homes and in the company of like level people, we can hope for anything our peaceful mind and body want, but poverty, lack of education and lack of guarantee of very existence can mould people's beliefs in any wrongful directions by self proclaimed religious and political leaders.
What, rather is needed, is mass education and standards upliftment. RSS is one body which has been doing that for last more than 50 years upspoken. It is our duty to do our bit in educating people or atleast leading them thru the right path so that they have standing and thinking power of their own. Then, they won't need mob herder leading them to violence. They'll have a mind of their own to judge the right and wrong.
It's a matter of percentages. At this time it might be only 5-10% populace thinking along the lines that u and I might endorse and acknowledge. But unless the rest of 80-90% people r with u, in their thoughts and actions, communalism and violence can't be stopped.
And until, that happens, all that u would have to discuss ur case with would be handful of people with inconsequential arguments.
It's very easy for us "educated folks" to think that we should live in harmony and all religions r good etc,. etc.
But on practical grounds, given the population of country like India and their level of education, it is easy said than done.
Sitting in the comforts of our homes and in the company of like level people, we can hope for anything our peaceful mind and body want, but poverty, lack of education and lack of guarantee of very existence can mould people's beliefs in any wrongful directions by self proclaimed religious and political leaders.
What, rather is needed, is mass education and standards upliftment. RSS is one body which has been doing that for last more than 50 years upspoken. It is our duty to do our bit in educating people or atleast leading them thru the right path so that they have standing and thinking power of their own. Then, they won't need mob herder leading them to violence. They'll have a mind of their own to judge the right and wrong.
It's a matter of percentages. At this time it might be only 5-10% populace thinking along the lines that u and I might endorse and acknowledge. But unless the rest of 80-90% people r with u, in their thoughts and actions, communalism and violence can't be stopped.
And until, that happens, all that u would have to discuss ur case with would be handful of people with inconsequential arguments.
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dma_va,
I can never side with killers of gandhiji.
You live in this country and experience how much freedom they have , to choose, preach or practice any faith or religion and how open it is and we all like it to go to temples here and you want our country to be closed like SaudiArabia, be theocratic where there is only religion, why should I be bothered if some one chose a different religion? It is his/her choice and every one should have the freedom to do so. Our constitution guarantees freedom of speech and expression. Why r u so worried about the NE, they were illiterate tribals and look at their literacy rate now, mozoram is almost 90% literate. Aren't they better off?
It is heart braking to know that even educated people who can think logically still refuses to do so and follow some fanatic.
lets hang our heads in shame
I can never side with killers of gandhiji.
You live in this country and experience how much freedom they have , to choose, preach or practice any faith or religion and how open it is and we all like it to go to temples here and you want our country to be closed like SaudiArabia, be theocratic where there is only religion, why should I be bothered if some one chose a different religion? It is his/her choice and every one should have the freedom to do so. Our constitution guarantees freedom of speech and expression. Why r u so worried about the NE, they were illiterate tribals and look at their literacy rate now, mozoram is almost 90% literate. Aren't they better off?
It is heart braking to know that even educated people who can think logically still refuses to do so and follow some fanatic.
lets hang our heads in shame
Optimystique
Registered Users (C)
We can do nothing about it
You and me sitting pretty in the US can get a discussion thread going for two days by making big statements. The fact of the matter is that things are very different in Gujarat. Narendra Modi is a very powerful bastard and he has mass support. The Hindus feel that the Muslims have crossed the line with the Godhra incident so they are justified in whatever they do. The BJP government cant touch Modi because he can win the state for them in the coming election, so they are also singing his tune. The police force which obviously is majority Hindu is clearly supporting Modi's pogrom. We dont get the news but it is still going on. They make frequent searches of Muslim localities, lock up anybody who makes any kind of noise. This is not hearsay news. I went to Ahmedabad to visit my family and hence also met some of my Muslim friends'(who are in the US) parents . They live as if they are living in Rwanda. They are afraid to open the door when some stranger knocks on the door. And everytime there is any 'Yatra' or mass pooja they vacate their houses and go to Bombay to stay with relatives. How long they plan to do this they dont know. My friends have been trying to move their parents to safer places like Bangalore, but can you imagine asking two 60 year olds to start a new life in a totally alien city, where they are not even comfortable with the language. That is ground reality. Is it going to change. No. How about 5 years from now. Not a chance.
What can we do about it. Nothing. So lets stick with immigration issues.
Mr. dma_va : Its one thing to read Rajeev Srinivasan, Varsha Bhosle and listen to speeches of Ashok Singhal and be impressed by it, but it is a totally different issue to know about ground reality. You seem to be justifying 1000 dead because a different bunch of crazy guys torched a train compartment. You would justify the rape and killing of 15 people from a bakery where I used to buy my bread because thier only mistake in life is belonging to a religion which the majority did not like. You would justify the gruesome murder of Graham Staines and his two 7 year olds because it brought a slowdown in the conversion rate. Well let me give you an idea. You mentioned Mizoram. Probably RSS should conduct a similar cleansing there. And also Nagaland and Meghalaya. Because our end goal is to stop all conversion and make all Muslims to stay within their limits. Lets start a national uprising. Bring down the mosques and the churches. Because the Hindu doesnt feel secure anymore in their own country.
Its disgusting and I didnt want to get into this argument . I am sure somebody would reply to this accusing me of this and that. I would not reply because as I said we can make a thread longer and longer without ever making any difference in the lives of the people who suffer.
Peace to all.
You and me sitting pretty in the US can get a discussion thread going for two days by making big statements. The fact of the matter is that things are very different in Gujarat. Narendra Modi is a very powerful bastard and he has mass support. The Hindus feel that the Muslims have crossed the line with the Godhra incident so they are justified in whatever they do. The BJP government cant touch Modi because he can win the state for them in the coming election, so they are also singing his tune. The police force which obviously is majority Hindu is clearly supporting Modi's pogrom. We dont get the news but it is still going on. They make frequent searches of Muslim localities, lock up anybody who makes any kind of noise. This is not hearsay news. I went to Ahmedabad to visit my family and hence also met some of my Muslim friends'(who are in the US) parents . They live as if they are living in Rwanda. They are afraid to open the door when some stranger knocks on the door. And everytime there is any 'Yatra' or mass pooja they vacate their houses and go to Bombay to stay with relatives. How long they plan to do this they dont know. My friends have been trying to move their parents to safer places like Bangalore, but can you imagine asking two 60 year olds to start a new life in a totally alien city, where they are not even comfortable with the language. That is ground reality. Is it going to change. No. How about 5 years from now. Not a chance.
What can we do about it. Nothing. So lets stick with immigration issues.
Mr. dma_va : Its one thing to read Rajeev Srinivasan, Varsha Bhosle and listen to speeches of Ashok Singhal and be impressed by it, but it is a totally different issue to know about ground reality. You seem to be justifying 1000 dead because a different bunch of crazy guys torched a train compartment. You would justify the rape and killing of 15 people from a bakery where I used to buy my bread because thier only mistake in life is belonging to a religion which the majority did not like. You would justify the gruesome murder of Graham Staines and his two 7 year olds because it brought a slowdown in the conversion rate. Well let me give you an idea. You mentioned Mizoram. Probably RSS should conduct a similar cleansing there. And also Nagaland and Meghalaya. Because our end goal is to stop all conversion and make all Muslims to stay within their limits. Lets start a national uprising. Bring down the mosques and the churches. Because the Hindu doesnt feel secure anymore in their own country.
Its disgusting and I didnt want to get into this argument . I am sure somebody would reply to this accusing me of this and that. I would not reply because as I said we can make a thread longer and longer without ever making any difference in the lives of the people who suffer.
Peace to all.
Vengan,
So u think that Mizoram deserved conversions because they were illiterate. At that rate, as I had anticipated and would have happended but for "Stains", UP, Bihar, MP etc. won't be too far from seeing most of their population converted.
Which book teaches that one becomes literate and progressive only after acquiring a certain religion? Why does one have to convert someone before doing any good to them.
If those who converted poor people were really thinking of their upliftment, they could have done that thru other means and not conversion.
An RSS follower killing Gandhi was wrong, but so was the Brit Dog General Dyer who killed thousands in Jalianwala BAgh and got Embellished by Britsh Empire for his "heroics". Brits never apologise for that.
That doesn't make the whole RSS bad. U will have to go a little further to understand, how good and nationalistic organization RSS is for particularly for poor people. These r facts.
Who says that India should be a closed country like Saudi Arabia with only one religion? I only said that for how long one can tolerate one-sided and endless conversions/communal violence. SOmeday, there will be retaliation and therein will be the lesson as we saw in case of Stains and Gujarat.
So u think that Mizoram deserved conversions because they were illiterate. At that rate, as I had anticipated and would have happended but for "Stains", UP, Bihar, MP etc. won't be too far from seeing most of their population converted.
Which book teaches that one becomes literate and progressive only after acquiring a certain religion? Why does one have to convert someone before doing any good to them.
If those who converted poor people were really thinking of their upliftment, they could have done that thru other means and not conversion.
An RSS follower killing Gandhi was wrong, but so was the Brit Dog General Dyer who killed thousands in Jalianwala BAgh and got Embellished by Britsh Empire for his "heroics". Brits never apologise for that.
That doesn't make the whole RSS bad. U will have to go a little further to understand, how good and nationalistic organization RSS is for particularly for poor people. These r facts.
Who says that India should be a closed country like Saudi Arabia with only one religion? I only said that for how long one can tolerate one-sided and endless conversions/communal violence. SOmeday, there will be retaliation and therein will be the lesson as we saw in case of Stains and Gujarat.
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What is sufficient hitting back...
Religious zeolots should be punished no matter what their religion or affiliation. That is why you have a judiciary system.
If rule of mob is right....reverse the situation to the United States. If an American Hindu kill a American Christian will it be alright for all American Christians in convinance with the state agencies to react by burning alive innocent hindus, raping their women and rendering them homeless so that this never happens again.
Hope you rethink your statements.
Religious zeolots should be punished no matter what their religion or affiliation. That is why you have a judiciary system.
If rule of mob is right....reverse the situation to the United States. If an American Hindu kill a American Christian will it be alright for all American Christians in convinance with the state agencies to react by burning alive innocent hindus, raping their women and rendering them homeless so that this never happens again.
Hope you rethink your statements.
Jibran,
I agree with u 100%. Mob rule and perverted leaders exhortions should be despised by everbody.
Land of the law should be abided by everyone.
But all this happens in a utopian society like USA where majority population is educated at the minimum, and well fed to a reasonable level.
For masses of India, we do have written law, good religions and good rules. What we don't have is good leaders with no vested power interest.
How can u make a commoner, whose priority of the day is food and not discussion on topics like this, understand to not listen to these perverted leaders. I think mass education and fulfilling the minimum needs of everyone is a priority of the times. We will have to do our bit for this purpose if we don't want to see what we see again and again.
Until then, all our discussions and arguments r not even worth the keyboard text that we write or read.
I agree with u 100%. Mob rule and perverted leaders exhortions should be despised by everbody.
Land of the law should be abided by everyone.
But all this happens in a utopian society like USA where majority population is educated at the minimum, and well fed to a reasonable level.
For masses of India, we do have written law, good religions and good rules. What we don't have is good leaders with no vested power interest.
How can u make a commoner, whose priority of the day is food and not discussion on topics like this, understand to not listen to these perverted leaders. I think mass education and fulfilling the minimum needs of everyone is a priority of the times. We will have to do our bit for this purpose if we don't want to see what we see again and again.
Until then, all our discussions and arguments r not even worth the keyboard text that we write or read.
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