petition against Lou Dobbs of CNN

Cost of Unemployment

Firstly, It is the American companies that are taking jobs out of US. It is not "stolen" by non-immigrants / other countries.

Economics is dynamic and should be viewed as such. If "Exporting Jobs" are costing American Jobs, it is cffering American Companies cost savings and better productivity. The impact of such a course of action on the economy, ofcourse, cannot be ignored.

How much ever water you pour on a glass tube to exceed the water on another tube connecting it (global Economy), will equalize! It just will! If the American Companies did not take advantage of the benefits of global economy that would increase their productivity and bottomline, it would ultimately be more harmful for the Economy. I agree that it should be controlled. But not the way Mr. Dobbs has adopted.

Corporates in any country need to have Economic and Social responsibility. But it is not always easy to balance it - especially in a recession. Would you prefer for the company to grow financially so ultimately it can produce internal jobs or would you rather prefer it to be "Economically patriotic" and adopt a course which would decrease its bottomline and cause more layoffs and gloomy long run?

The truth is America never expected the concept of "Globalization" to back fire. They are facing a tune for which they were not prepared for. My opinion would not change even if I was a Jobless American! (easy to say .. I know!! ).

If they are in a big hole, Mr. Dobbs is feeding hate that would put them even deeper.

Mr.Dobbs's pea brain has nothing but "personal gain" written all over. I find his arguments, baseless and baised.
 
Re: Cost of Unemployment

Originally posted by Zero
Firstly, It is the American companies that are taking jobs out of US. It is not "stolen" by non-immigrants / other countries.

Economics is dynamic and should be viewed as such. If "Exporting Jobs" are costing American Jobs, it is cffering American Companies cost savings and better productivity. The impact of such a course of action on the economy, ofcourse, cannot be ignored.

How much ever water you pour on a glass tube to exceed the water on another tube connecting it (global Economy), will equalize! It just will! If the American Companies did not take advantage of the benefits of global economy that would increase their productivity and bottomline, it would ultimately be more harmful for the Economy. I agree that it should be controlled. But not the way Mr. Dobbs has adopted.

Corporates in any country need to have Economic and Social responsibility. But it is not always easy to balance it - especially in a recession. Would you prefer for the company to grow financially so ultimately it can produce internal jobs or would you rather prefer it to be "Economically patriotic" and adopt a course which would decrease its bottomline and cause more layoffs and gloomy long run?

The truth is America never expected the concept of "Globalization" to back fire. They are facing a tune for which they were not prepared for. My opinion would not change even if I was a Jobless American! (easy to say .. I know!! ).

If they are in a big hole, Mr. Dobbs is feeding hate that would put them even deeper.

Mr.Dobbs's pea brain has nothing but "personal gain" written all over. I find his arguments, baseless and baised.
Click to expand...



Well said Zero.

I agree with this 100%.

Cheers!
Currys
 
The offshore company place all L-1B visa holders who get only expense (which is tax free) and get the salary in India. The offshore company can do that as long as they are working at their office.

But they are placing the L-1B visa holders at client places on hourly rate basis. The spous of a L-1 visa holder get the EAD right away. So if an Offshore compny bring 10 L-1B's they have 20 people to place in US.

To give an example....

Microsoft-India can bring their employees on L-1B visa to work in thier Microsoft-US office. But they can not send those L-1B visa holders to DELL to do consulating.

If a L-1B consultant works 160 hours for $40/hr

Client pays - $6400
L-1B visa holder gets..

Expenses - $2000 no taxes
Salary in India - $500(approx) in Indian currency

And the Offshore company get $3900 profit (No taxes paid in US). In INDIA the same Offshore company claims that they paid expenses, US Salary and Indian salary and pay taxes over very less amount.

That is is the reason offshore companies are offering consulatants for 30/40 dollars.

########################
The BANGLADESHI's who were INDIA are NOT replacing the Indians from the so called Hi-Tech jobs.
#################################

I just want to re-iterate that I'm NOT against the Offshore companies or Out Sourcing. I don't even mind if they work for $30/40 per hour. Let them pay taxes if they are working in US and compete with everyone else who pay taxes.

My only concern is FAIR COMPETITION in US. I'm Against the people/Companies who are making others loose their jobs while they don't even pay a SINGLE dollar taxes.

I don't support Lou Dobbs for branding all INDIANS as job stealers. I'm NOT even saying that Lou Dobbs is right. I just expressed my concern about loosing job for a person WHO DON'T even pay taxes.

Today loosing job is my turn. But it DO NOT stop only with me or only a few people. It is a VIRUS and it will affect everyone and will STEAL jobs of most of the people in US.

Please CORRECT me if I said something wrong. NO HARD FEELINGS.
 
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STEAL Jobs!!!

sairam...
Today loosing job is my turn. But it DO NOT stop only with me or only a few people. It is a VIRUS and it will affect everyone and will STEAL jobs of most of the people in US.
Click to expand...

Steal Jobs!!! Do not we always try to buy cheap products that offer best value! Corporate America is doing this business. They are buying value priced human resources and in the process making a huge profit and in turn helping this country to be benefitted economically! This is very well expected in a global economy. Those who oppose to this are in fact suggesting to go into a blocked economy, similar to former USSR or East Germany. And we all by now know that do not work.

Btw, no body steals anybodies job. Its a compitition and the winner gets it.
 
jpmbank.....

##########################################
Steal Jobs!!! Do not we always try to buy cheap products that offer best value! Corporate America is doing this business. They are buying value priced human resources and in the process making a huge profit and in turn helping this country to be benefitted economically! This is very well expected in a global economy. Those who oppose to this are in fact suggesting to go into a blocked economy, similar to former USSR or East Germany. And we all by now know that do not work.

Btw, no body steals anybodies job. Its a compitition and the winner gets it.
################################



Hello jpmbank.....The following is from my previous post. I clearly mentioned that I'm NOT against competetion. I'm against competing with the people WHO DON'T pay taxes. If I don't have to pay taxes I'm ready to work for $20/25 per hour.

######################################
I just want to re-iterate that I'm NOT against the Offshore companies or Out Sourcing. I don't even mind if they work for $30/40 per hour. Let them pay taxes if they are working in US and compete with everyone else who pay taxes.

My only concern is FAIR COMPETITION in US. I'm Against the people/Companies who are making others loose their jobs while they don't even pay a SINGLE dollar taxes.

I don't support Lou Dobbs for branding all INDIANS as job stealers. I'm NOT even saying that Lou Dobbs is right. I just expressed my concern about loosing job for a person WHO DON'T even pay taxes.
##########################################
 
Sairam...

Someone who makes 20/hr, less medical etc., will be making 30~35K/annum! What tax you expect the poor guy to pay? And what way are you paying for his survival from your tax money? May be I am missing something here...

From company prospective: if his Indian company is not paying tax here, so does many American companies doing R&D, call center in India, do not pay taxes in India! Bottom line is these so called saved money are infact going to larger corporations, which are publicly held. So if Microsoft outsouce projects to Tata and tata sends few L1 guys here, its in fact Microsoft which is getting financial gain. Microsoft is publicly held, so own few shares to get a bite of that profit. No body is really loosing anything here, its all revolving around.

I'm just expressing my views, correct me if i'm wrong!
 
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Originally posted by sairam4599
The offshore company place all L-1B visa holders who get only expense (which is tax free) and get the salary in India. The offshore company can do that as long as they are working at their office.

But they are placing the L-1B visa holders at client places on hourly rate basis. The spous of a L-1 visa holder get the EAD right away. So if an Offshore compny bring 10 L-1B's they have 20 people to place in US.

To give an example....

Microsoft-India can bring their employees on L-1B visa to work in thier Microsoft-US office. But they can not send those L-1B visa holders to DELL to do consulating.

If a L-1B consultant works 160 hours for $40/hr

Client pays - $6400
L-1B visa holder gets..

Expenses - $2000 no taxes
Salary in India - $500(approx) in Indian currency

And the Offshore company get $3900 profit (No taxes paid in US). In INDIA the same Offshore company claims that they paid expenses, US Salary and Indian salary and pay taxes over very less amount.

That is is the reason offshore companies are offering consulatants for 30/40 dollars.
....
Click to expand...

Technically, the person who comes on deputation is being only reimbursed for his/her expenses. Whatever they are being paid is regarded by US income tax law as reimbursment of travel expenses. Beyond a certain minimum amount they are supposed to be having expense receipts for the amounts to be non-taxable. If they are paying salaries and not reimbursing expenses (without withholding income taxes), it is illegal. In fact, I believe US tax law requires such people on temporary assignments to file a non-resident's tax return and pay taxes on the part of their income (whether it is received in India or elsewhere) that is attributable to the work performed in the US.

Furthermore, the $6,400 and $3,900 in your example represents a deductible expense for the payer and taxable income for the receiver respectively for US income tax purposes. When the $6,400 is paid, the payer is obliged to withhold US income taxes unless the receiver has registered with the IRS and provides a certain form (I do not remember the no.) to the payer. This registration is meant to make sure that the receiver has a US tax id and has an obligation to file a US tax return. The transaction is certainly not tax free.
 
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Originally posted by jpmbank
Sairam...

Someone who makes 20/hr, less medical etc., will be making 30~35K/annum! What tax you expect the poor guy to pay? And what way are you paying for his survival from your tax money? May be I am missing something here...

From company prospective: if his Indian company is not paying tax here, so does many American companies doing R&D, call center in India, do not pay taxes in India! Bottom line is these so called saved money are infact going to larger corporations, which are publicly held. So if Microsoft outsouce projects to Tata and tata sends few L1 guys here, its in fact Microsoft which is getting financial gain. Microsoft is publicly held, so own few shares to get a bite of that profit. No body is really loosing anything here, its all revolving around.

I'm just expressing my views, correct me if i'm wrong!
Click to expand...

The catch here is an L-1 visa holders gets $2000 to 2500 per month as expenses is supposed work in the employers office who sponsered L-1 visa. Contraray they are doing consulting at different employer like H-1B visa holder. Basically they bring people here on L-1B visa and use them as H-1B visa holder and just pay expenses. Basically a US citizen or GC holder or H-1B will replaced by an L-1B visa holder who don't pay taxes.

That is the reason i mentioned that if I don't have to pay any taxes like L-1B visa holders, I don't mind to work for $25/hr.


Anyways please correct me if I'm wrong. NO HARD FEELINGS.
 
Lou - Roach Yesterday ... interesting dialogue!!

This dialogue happened yesterday between Lou and Mr. Stephen Roach (Chief Global Economist, Morgan Stanley)

Mr. Roach hit it right on the dot and Mr. Lou had to use his 'skillz' to change gears

ROACH: Well, a lot of this simply reflects whether or not America is committed to globalization. I think it's pretty extraordinary to think that a lot of this, whether it's the construction of outsourcing platforms in China and India through American foreign direct investment or the advent of the Internet, which connects us to these outsourcing platforms as never before, which is also made in America, this is very much of our own making.

So we, in effect, are now living in an era of globalization that has been made in America, and now we don't like it. So what are we to do as a nation, close down our borders and turn our backs on globalization?

DOBBS: No, Stephen. What I'm asking you is, we know the history. We know how we got here. But now what I'm asking you very specifically is, how long do you think that we can continue to build on this debt? We are now the world's largest debtor nation. How long can this go without solution?

ROACH: These things always go on for longer than we would like or longer than we would think. And I'm worried that we're coming close to that point, where this current account deficit does cause an even more precipitous decline in the dollar and a backup in U.S. interest rates as a result, which would be very disruptive for our financial markets and our economy.

What do we do here? We have to save more as a nation by getting our fiscal house in order. And then we have to focus on new sources of job creation. That's what has always made America great. If we try to defend and protect old sources, we lose. We win if we look to the new.
 
Re: Lou - Roach Yesterday ... interesting dialogue!!

Originally posted by Zero
This dialogue happened yesterday between Lou and Mr. Stephen Roach (Chief Global Economist, Morgan Stanley)

Mr. Roach hit it right on the dot and Mr. Lou had to use his 'skillz' to change gears

ROACH: Well, a lot of this simply reflects whether or not America is committed to globalization. I think it's pretty extraordinary to think that a lot of this, whether it's the construction of outsourcing platforms in China and India through American foreign direct investment or the advent of the Internet, which connects us to these outsourcing platforms as never before, which is also made in America, this is very much of our own making.

So we, in effect, are now living in an era of globalization that has been made in America, and now we don't like it. So what are we to do as a nation, close down our borders and turn our backs on globalization?

DOBBS: No, Stephen. What I'm asking you is, we know the history. We know how we got here. But now what I'm asking you very specifically is, how long do you think that we can continue to build on this debt? We are now the world's largest debtor nation. How long can this go without solution?

ROACH: These things always go on for longer than we would like or longer than we would think. And I'm worried that we're coming close to that point, where this current account deficit does cause an even more precipitous decline in the dollar and a backup in U.S. interest rates as a result, which would be very disruptive for our financial markets and our economy.

What do we do here? We have to save more as a nation by getting our fiscal house in order. And then we have to focus on new sources of job creation. That's what has always made America great. If we try to defend and protect old sources, we lose. We win if we look to the new.
Click to expand...


Thanks Zero for sharing this with us.

BTW, what a fitting response to this foolish question. I believe Lou thought Roach might have agreed to his view point that he has been pushing about the immigrants. I'm glad someone on the National TV answered that for us. I also hope all the people who saw his show about immigrants also saw this interview.


Cheers!
Currys
 
For all the people who think Lou is just against outsourcing -here is the evidence. His program's transcript. You can see how Lou broadcasts a person "Daneil Soong" was receiving salary of 160K and was replaced by a "cheap" H1 worker. "Daniel Soong" himself later told CNN that he was receiving only 60K - which as you know is much lesser than what most H1s make!! But by broadcasting this outrageous exagerration, Lou succeeded in creating hate to H1 workers and starting the entire debate (as you can see this program was bradcast in May 2003 -when other networks really hadn't caught on to this). I didn't see Lou making any apologies for it, did you?
Lou further goes on in the program that the fact that "H1-B visa employees are taking jobs from Americans" as a "no-brainer"
Here is the link
http://www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/Library/Archives/CNNMoneyline.htm

With that I rest my case.
 
although i can understand why everyone boils over this issue, there are some instances when silence is golden. I am afraid this is one of those. Can ALIENS have 1st amendment rights? I am almost sure they don't get 4th amendment rights.
just 'n fair
 
Silence is never golden when you are at the receiving end of an injustice ... more so in America where if you don't protest against the injustices, it continues to perpetuate.

There is an interesting article in New York Times (www.nytimes.cm) (free registration required) (if cannot probably post the article because of copyright restrictions ... not sure):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/22/technology/22neco.html

A very balanced about the implications of offshoring. Wonder if Mr. Dobb's will have the courage to quote it :)
 
What happened to Dobbs case !?

Has any one informed CNN and submitted the signature list? Any response from CNN !? What was the outcome? Did he say any apology? :confused: :mad:
 
Dobbs, Lost his mind: wall Street Journal

Read this, very intersting.
Job Losses Pit
CNN's Dobbs
Against Old Pals

By JULIA ANGWIN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL


CNN anchor Lou Dobbs is on a crusade -- and oddly, his target is the U.S. business establishment. Nearly every night for the past year, in a campaign he calls "Exporting America," Mr. Dobbs has railed against companies that move jobs to low-wage countries.

On recent broadcasts of "Lou Dobbs Tonight," he has called for President Bush to fire a top economic adviser who said outsourcing U.S. service jobs is probably good for the economy, and lauded Congress for considering legislation to limit government work from being sent overseas. On his section of CNN's Web site, Mr. Dobbs has compiled a list of more than 200 companies that he says are "either sending American jobs overseas, or choosing to employ cheap overseas labor, instead of American workers."

The ferocity of Mr. Dobbs's attack has surprised and even angered some observers used to associating the well-known Republican financial journalist with spirited defenses of capitalism and cozy interviews with America's top chief executives.

"It's really one of the most dramatic shifts of attitude and persona that TV has seen," says David Bernknopf, a media strategist and former CNN vice president. "Lou was always seen by corporate America as a reliable and generally friendly journalist. Now he has shifted 180 degrees and has clearly dedicated his show to criticizing a lot of the way that corporate America does business."
CNN has been reshaping its identity ever since the pioneer of 24-hour news lost the battle for ratings supremacy to News Corp.'s opinionated Fox News Channel. Now the straight-ahead, just-the-facts-ma'am style of reporting that made CNN famous is being played down. The network is driven as much by personality as news, hoping to hook audiences with the likes of anchors Paula Zahn and Anderson Cooper.

The 58-year-old Mr. Dobbs has always been one of the most opinionated CNN commentators, but his opinions generally were seen as unabashedly pro-business. His "Moneyline" show was successful partly because of his wide contacts and ability to woo executives to do on-air interviews. After Mr. Dobbs left for a dot-com start-up in 1999, the show's ratings plummeted. He returned to "Moneyline" in 2001 and added what he calls "the political economy" to the show's roots in business. "Moneyline" was renamed "Lou Dobbs Tonight" last year.

Mr. Dobbs's pugnacious style seems to be catching on with viewers and advertisers. "Lou Dobbs Tonight" attracted about 511,000 viewers in January, up 9% from 470,000 a year earlier, according to Nielsen Media Research. The show's ad revenue of $14.7 million in December was up 24% from $11.9 million a year earlier, according to Nielsen Monitor-Plus.

Mr. Dobbs acknowledges that his anti-outsourcing campaign has sparked complaints from some traditional allies. "I've had one or two CEOs suggest that I'm a communist," he says. James K. Glassman, a conservative commentator who sparred with Mr. Dobbs on the air earlier this month, has launched an anti-Dobbs campaign on his Web site. And in India, an economist calls the growing political backlash in the U.S. against outsourcing the "Lou Dobbs effect."

At the same time, the fight by Mr. Dobbs is winning him friends in new places, including praise from Sen. Edward Kennedy (D., Mass.). At a gathering of 3,000 labor activists earlier this month, Richard Trumka, AFL-CIO secretary-treasurer, showed a clip from Mr. Dobbs's show. "The blind loyalty to free trade is being challenged in the mainstream media," Mr. Trumka told the crowd.

Mr. Dobbs insists he hasn't dramatically changed his tune, saying he just wants the U.S. government to study the consequences of outsourcing so it can make wise policy decisions. "I am an absolute free market capitalist, but I believe in true free markets and the importance of clear, accurate information to create free markets," he says.

On the air, Mr. Dobbs sometimes takes a caustic tone with guests who disagree with him. "What is it with you people?" Mr. Dobbs asked after Mr. Glassman commented on the benefits of a trade deficit. Later in the same show, Mr. Dobbs told Mr. Glassman: "You talk like a cult member."

Mr. Glassman says the interview was "an amazing experience. I knew he was going to be very argumentative, but I think he sort of lost it." Mr. Dobbs now says his comment was aimed at "the orthodoxy amongst too many economists, too many in business who simply say it's free trade and the hell with the consequences."

After tangling with Mr. Dobbs, Mr. Glassman posted a study on his own Web site that concluded that the companies listed by Mr. Dobbs as moving jobs out of the U.S. are good stock picks overall. A portfolio of the so-called "Dobbs Rogue Fund," which includes General Electric Co., Pfizer Inc. and Yahoo Inc., would have gained 72.4% in the year ended Monday, compared with a 39.1% return for the Standard & Poor's 500-Stock Index over the same period. "Lou is definitely on to something," Mr. Glassman jokes.

Mr. Dobbs counters that the stock-market performance of these companies doesn't prove that outsourcing is necessary for success. "They should be sharing their success with their stakeholders and living up to their responsibilities," he says.

He says all the companies listed on the CNN Web site have confirmed moving jobs out of the U.S. A CNN spokeswoman adds that Mr. Dobbs's show is clearly labeled as news and analysis, as well as opinion and debate.

Mr. Dobbs conducted another crusade two years ago. When federal prosecutors went after the accounting firm Arthur Andersen LLP for its role in Enron Corp.'s collapse, Mr. Dobbs repeatedly denounced on-air what he saw as the federal government's effort to destroy "the livelihoods of most of those 85,000 innocent people" who worked at Andersen.

Mr. Dobbs was criticized at the time for having ties to Andersen. Andersen had sponsored a show of his on CNN and had paid Mr. Dobbs for speaking engagements prior to his reporting on the issue.

This time, Mr. Dobbs says he doesn't know of any instance where he has received any speaking fees related to his anti-outsourcing crusade, adding that CNN's ethics committee approves all his speaking engagements. He says he doesn't directly own any of the stocks he mentions on air, except shares of CNN's parent company, Time Warner Inc.
 
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