petition against Lou Dobbs of CNN

Its a matter of time ...

when people in the US and other advanced countries will fully understand and accept the effect of globalisation.

When US and other advanced countries can sell goods in developing nations, killing the potential weak domestic industries, why can't a person from a developing nation take over a job in another country. Welcome to globalisation.

As long as there were abundant jobs opportunities everything was fair. But when there is scarcity there is bound to be discomfort. Compare that to swadeshi (for non Hindi speakers.....belonging to one's own country) tantrums in India that used to come up once in a while earlier. All that is gone now and everyone consumes foreign goods with pride in India as long as the price or the quality is right and if they can afford it.

Besides, people would certainly raise issues that may be sensitive and rightly so, e.g., a concern that personal information may be being disclosed when a contract is outsourced to a foreign country and that may jeopardise security. I am sure many of the government contracts would fall into this category. I would not be surprised to know that some of the government contracts got cancelled specifically for these reason before it got exposed too much. As long as no issues were raised, government mostly turned a blind eye reaping the benefits. But I am hopeful that these holes would be plugged over a period of time and then outsourcing would still continue in a manner that may not be questionable from sensitivity perspective. Its easier to justity outsourcing for economic reasons but hard to defend if there are security issues that people are extremely sensitive to.

By the way if you watch Lou's program carefully, you would that the guy is very smart. He is certainly biased in this case because of the theme of the segment but his delivery and choice of words is excellent for the job at his hand. His job, in this segment, is to portray how foreign workers and foreign contracts are causing hardship to American people. He is not, at this moment, doing a segment on 'Foreign Workers Contributions to US Economy' or 'Made in China Brings more Values to your hard earned Dollars'. I would not doubt if he would these in future or if he already did as someone noted earlier in this thread.

I am amazed, while watching him discuss, how he barely speaks a few words, most often appearing grammatically incorrect and sentences incomplete (not that I am always grammatically correct in this post), and the respondant starts reeling out sentences addressing them. When I do the same, people say they don't get me and could I ellaborate or give some examples. He has mastered the art of picking the words that conveys his intent and knows also how to give a positive spin to everything he does. Besides, he also knows how to agitate someone by picking on them and discussing irrelevant aspects of the conversation therby changing the intent of the discussion.

But I fully understand and believe that parties that are affected by this segment on CNN must respond. There is no morality here when one is trying to be global. The key it to protect ones interest. Organisations and media in nations affected by this must respond with their own view. Similarly, we must respond to register our protest to this one-sided view. In this case the two sides are not legal vs illegal. In one of his program, a viewer indicated that he was one-sided when he discussed illegal immigrant issues. He was quick to respond that in this case he is one-sided and he is on the legal side.

With this thought I am willing to sign the petition and urge others to do the same.
 
jahanpanah, You are right!

You are correct, Jahanpanah! Mr. Lou Dobbs is doing his job on hand - certainly not a segment on the 'Contributions of imported skilled labor' . But his views are so very skewed and opinion forming.

If you look at his segment on 'Broken Borders' . you will note how he jumps heaps. Sure! Illegal Immigrants are a burden to this economy. But he conveniently moves on and sneaks in snide remarks about 'unskilled technology immigrants stealing american jobs'!! and then moves on to Jobs exported out of US. Eventhough he is actually talking about 3 unrelated issues, he makes the American listeners believe it to be one and the same. He fails to recognize the difference between illegal and legal immigration. Now that is a problem! and it is a bigger problem with millions of American viewership appreciating it.

Besides, we are not cheap labor. We did not sneak into this country. We offer if not the same, only more, to this economy!
 
Re: Emails to and from Mr. Lou Dobbs

Originally posted by Zero
It is important that we do something about this guy.

Well, may be you should not have accused him of ignorance. This language is too blunt for Americans!! They are so sheltered and they do not like to be challenged that way!
 
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greencarder ... may be ...

may be ...

Ignorance has a touch of innocence ... Perhaps I should have called it 'Heinous Retribution ' !!!!

Greencarder, Frankly I don't think it would have made any difference. Mr. Dobbs has a definite political agenda behind it. How else do you describe his quoting of Sen. Liberman and call for Corporate America to have 'Economic Patriotism'. Very diplomatic indeed!! For some one who can shred the words, it actually is a call for 'Discrimination'! Discrimination in any means or form .

Unfortunately, that is not a language acceptable for me. I am not an American. So What?
 
Originally posted by existentialist
Oh...now somebody, how about some articles for less cerebral patrons like myself?

You are, therefore you think; No?

Doesnt Kierkegaard center have an IQ cut off for membership?
 
Cogito, ergo sum - DeCartes?
Fortunately or unfortunately, I was too dumb to think that it primarily applies to consciousness-realization. That it also applies to IQ is something I just learned today. Now I am enlightened. I can understand the article now.
 
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Originally posted by existentialist
Cogito, ergo sum - DeCartes?
Fortunately or unfortunately, I was too dumb to think that it primarily applies to consciousness-realization. That it also applies to IQ is something I just learned today. Now I am enlightened. I can understand article now.

And never the twain shall meet, or is it a misnomer? .... Let us just yield a little on the definitions, shall we? it is more fun that way!:D
 
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Ah, so be it; your loss, not mine!

Doesnt Nietzsche (your hero, I guess; I recall you bemoaning in one of your early posts as to what Nietzsche might have thought of the INS) say somewhere that Descartes stumbled upon that "Cogito, ergo sum" conclusion before coming up with the supporting arguments?
 
My loss?
Anyway, Descartes presented his conclusion prior to his QED. So what? You brought up Descartes' conclusion. What are you trying to say now?
 
Originally posted by existentialist
My loss?
Anyway, Descartes presented his conclusion prior to his QED. So what? You brought up Descartes' conclusion. What are you trying to say now?

No, I did not bring up Descartes' conclusion. Read carefully and you will notice that I had brought up the (existentialists') response to Descartes' philosophical argument! A bit of literary licence allowed me to tie it into thinking and IQ nicely, but the fun is gone now that I have had to explain it! :p
 
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Originally posted by existentialist
This one?

You are, therefore you think; No?
Doesnt Kierkegaard center have an IQ cut off for membership?

Yes; and you probably know that Soren Kierkegaard is regarded as the father of existentialism. But never mind. We will have another altercation some other day! Good night.
 
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So why are we going after Mr. Lou Dobbs - isn't it every American's right to know what the actual cost of sending jobs off-shore is short-term and long-term - and what is the reason that the guy next door had been out of job for last 1 year. I am afraid we are doing this petition & stuff just to silence anyone who dare question moving American (our, yours and mine) jobs to other countries.

lets' all behave like grown ups - we are Americans and we must not lose sight of the fact that our kids and their kids and many generations to come will live in America - else we would not be here on "IMMIGRATION.COM".

You have the right to disagree with me - but please do not try to "silence anyone who dare question"your opinion.

Cheers,
 
Look at the following 2 scenarios.

1) 5/6 years back most of the US citizens and GC holders got replaced because of all H-1B's. At that time economy is good so no one felt that bad.

1) The place where I work all the jobs (US Citizens+GC holders+EAD's+H-1B's) with Tata consultants with L-1B visas who don't even pay US Taxes. This is happening all over US. Is it reasonable for US Citizens to loose jobs for the people who don't even pay taxes??

Do we need to take side of offshore companies as they are from INDIA?

If the above 2 incidents happen in India, imagine that what we would have done???

I'm not against to Offshore companies. Let them pay the taxes like us and compete with all others.

We are over reacting on Lou Dobbs. They are making an issue on outsourcing and offshore companies, which will benifit the people who live in US.

I'm also an Immigrant and don't get me wrong. What I'm trying to say is think reasonably.
 
Originally posted by sairam4599
Look at the following 2 scenarios.

1) 5/6 years back most of the US citizens and GC holders got replaced because of all H-1B's. At that time economy is good so no one felt that bad.

Very true!

1) The place where I work all the jobs (US Citizens+GC holders+EAD's+H-1B's) with Tata consultants with L-1B visas who don't even pay US Taxes. This is happening all over US. Is it reasonable for US Citizens to loose jobs for the people who don't even pay taxes??

That does not matter because all the legal workers pay the unemployment tax that never gets refunded and also if u get laid off you can not claim any money from the govt (if you are not citizen). I know Indian govt was trying to lobby in the congress for that amount to be returned to the Indian citizens which runs into billions of dollars. Also, these people spend more money in American brands then a normal American itself.. (be it buying Nike shoes for your sister or a cologne for your uncle .. the list goes on). This provides big boost to the American economy.


Do we need to take side of offshore companies as they are from INDIA?
Not necessarily companies that are from India but respect the business flow and also prepare citizens here to handle more stuff so that they are less dependent on the offshore process.

If the above 2 incidents happen in India, imagine that what we would have done???
It still happens in India be it Bangladeshi's moving to India or something else. I agree the magnitude might not be as big as this is here. But this is what American economy had campaigend to the world to open their economies to the American companies.


I'm not against to Offshore companies. Let them pay the taxes like us and compete with all others.

I'd buy that.

We are over reacting on Lou Dobbs. They are making an issue on outsourcing and offshore companies, which will benifit the people who live in US.

No we are not! If an immigrant is not hurt.. something's wrong with the self respect.

I'm also an Immigrant and don't get me wrong. What I'm trying to say is think reasonably.
 
Originally posted by sairam4599
.... 1) The place where I work all the jobs (US Citizens+GC holders+EAD's+H-1B's) with Tata consultants with L-1B visas who don't even pay US Taxes. This is happening all over US. Is it reasonable for US Citizens to loose jobs for the people who don't even pay taxes?? ....

Why do you say that they do not pay US taxes?
 
Originally posted by sairam4599
Look at the following 2 scenarios.

1) 5/6 years back most of the US citizens and GC holders got replaced because of all H-1B's. At that time economy is good so no one felt that bad.

Even at that point of time, most H-1's came at a significantly lower salary than US employees with similar skills. It is another matter that they jumped as soon as a they found a better opportunity ... and there were plenty.

1) The place where I work all the jobs (US Citizens+GC holders+EAD's+H-1B's) with Tata consultants with L-1B visas who don't even pay US Taxes. This is happening all over US. Is it reasonable for US Citizens to loose jobs for the people who don't even pay taxes??

Where is your source of info about "don't even pay taxes"? Please state facts only.

Do we need to take side of offshore companies as they are from INDIA?

No, we need to support it because lou dobb's raising a stink against immigrants (legal or illegal) affects all of us too ... remember, we are not citizens, we are trying to become immigrants.

Anyway, it is a capitalist economy where cost-cutting is very important to maintain an edge. If it was not for lower salaries being excepted by original H1's (I know people who have come here for 30-60 k), most people in this forum wouldn't even be here. So why get pissed when coroporations can save even more by offshoring the work and getting people here with L-1's.

If the above 2 incidents happen in India, imagine that what we would have done???

It is already happening with 20 million people from a neighbouring country in India ... and apparently not much is happening. Whenever the government tries to deport even 50-100 out of these 20 million people, English media some lawyers file enough PIL's to throw it in logjam forever.

I'm not against to Offshore companies. Let them pay the taxes like us and compete with all others.

We are over reacting on Lou Dobbs. They are making an issue on outsourcing and offshore companies, which will benifit the people who live in US.

We are not over reacting, we are under reacting. Just imagine what would have happened if someone had said one work against people from one of the closest US allies ... the entire media would be flooded with letters protesting it. It is sad that despite having a H-1/GC population of 2 million, we cannot muster even 10000 petitions. If you want to live in the US and raise your children here, you should protest smartly so that at least your chilren have some semblance of repect ... because belive me, no matter how long they have lived here, they will continue to be mistaken with immigrants because of their looks.

One of the beauties of living in the US is the ability to lobby and push for a change if you don't like it and you are smart. Apparently there is no dearth of smartness here and the software immigrants are in the top 15 % of money making range of US population and more than significant contributors of taxes but how much pull we have over any policy. This is because most software immigrants are scared to death about protesting thinking that once GC has been achieve, life's travails are over. Even not so rich and not so educated cuban's and mexicans have more influence.

I'm also an Immigrant and don't get me wrong. What I'm trying to say is think reasonably.
 
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