PERM - Chicago vs Atlanta

1. Rajaabhi - FR 06/24-Chicago
2. irinastaicu - FR 06/24-Chicago, filled 6/15, no conversion, RIR at BEC
3. psam123 - FR 06/28-Chicago
4. AnilMI - FR 06/29-Chicago
5. knowDOL - FR 07/01-Filed 6/14-Chicago(No conversion) - one RIR with SWA not yet in BEC
6. Prats - FR 07/08-Chicago
7. titu1972 - FR 07/12-Chicago
8. einmanninus - FR - 07/14-Chicago
9. gsn - FR 06/28-Chicago
10. sd_guy - FR 06/24-Chicago (+4 others in Final Review 6/24)
11. Gc_Reform - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/10, Pending RIR at SWA, NO BEC, NO Conversion
12. Cabal - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/6, (Sent Recruit Let 7/18)
13. coolz - FR 6/29 Chicago, Filed : 6/29
14. Jay2005 - FR 06/24; Filed : 06/02 - Chicago (One RIR in BEC, no conversion )
15. nhusson - FR 06/24; filed on 06/15 -- Chicago (No conversion) - one RIR
(SWA CA sep 2004) - not yet in BEC
16. abu2003 - FR; Filed on 05/24/05 - Chicago
17. deshu77 - FR; Filed on 06/02/05 - Chicago (1 more in Same Situation)
18. Goofy101 - FR 6/24, Filed on 5/23 -Chicago (5/24 - 6/24 Audit Review)
19. Bystander6 - FR 7/22, Filed on 7/22 - Chicago
20. CA_GreenCD - FR 7/27 - Chicago
21. ZlikeZebra - FR 6/24 Filed on 6/16 - Chicago
 
add me too

1. Rajaabhi - FR 06/24-Chicago
2. irinastaicu - FR 06/24-Chicago, filled 6/15, no conversion, RIR at BEC
3. psam123 - FR 06/28-Chicago
4. AnilMI - FR 06/29-Chicago
5. knowDOL - FR 07/01-Filed 6/14-Chicago(No conversion) - one RIR with SWA not yet in BEC
6. Prats - FR 07/08-Chicago
7. titu1972 - FR 07/12-Chicago
8. einmanninus - FR - 07/14-Chicago
9. gsn - FR 06/28-Chicago
10. sd_guy - FR 06/24-Chicago (+4 others in Final Review 6/24)
11. Gc_Reform - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/10, Pending RIR at SWA, NO BEC, NO Conversion
12. Cabal - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/6, (Sent Recruit Let 7/18)
13. coolz - FR 6/29 Chicago, Filed : 6/29
14. Jay2005 - FR 06/24; Filed : 06/02 - Chicago (One RIR in BEC, no conversion )
15. nhusson - FR 06/24; filed on 06/15 -- Chicago (No conversion) - one RIR
(SWA CA sep 2004) - not yet in BEC
16. abu2003 - FR; Filed on 05/24/05 - Chicago
17. deshu77 - FR; Filed on 06/02/05 - Chicago (1 more in Same Situation)
18. Goofy101 - FR 6/24, Filed on 5/23 -Chicago (5/24 - 6/24 Audit Review)
19. Bystander6 - FR 7/22, Filed on 7/22 - Chicago
20. CA_GreenCD - FR 7/27 - Chicago
21. ZlikeZebra - FR 6/24 Filed on 6/16 - Chicago[/QUOTE]
22. nning---Sp 07/06 Filed on May 21st,Audit review to 06/24,denied to july06, sponsorship from 07/06, in process from 07/28---chicago
 
1. Rajaabhi - FR 06/24-Chicago
2. irinastaicu - FR 06/24-Chicago, filled 6/15, no conversion, RIR at BEC
3. psam123 - FR 06/28-Chicago
4. AnilMI - FR 06/29-Chicago
5. knowDOL - FR 07/01-Filed 6/14-Chicago(No conversion) - one RIR with SWA not yet in BEC
6. Prats - FR 07/08-Chicago
7. titu1972 - FR 07/12-Chicago
8. einmanninus - FR - 07/14-Chicago -No paper LC application, will start H1B from Oct. (currently using OPT)
9. gsn - FR 06/28-Chicago
10. sd_guy - FR 06/24-Chicago (+4 others in Final Review 6/24)
11. Gc_Reform - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/10, Pending RIR at SWA, NO BEC, NO Conversion
12. Cabal - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/6, (Sent Recruit Let 7/18)
13. coolz - FR 6/29 Chicago, Filed : 6/29
14. Jay2005 - FR 06/24; Filed : 06/02 - Chicago (One RIR in BEC, no conversion )
15. nhusson - FR 06/24; filed on 06/15 -- Chicago (No conversion) - one RIR
(SWA CA sep 2004) - not yet in BEC
16. abu2003 - FR; Filed on 05/24/05 - Chicago
17. deshu77 - FR; Filed on 06/02/05 - Chicago (1 more in Same Situation)
18. Goofy101 - FR 6/24, Filed on 5/23 -Chicago (5/24 - 6/24 Audit Review)
19. Bystander6 - FR 7/22, Filed on 7/22 - Chicago
20. CA_GreenCD - FR 7/27 - Chicago
21. ZlikeZebra - FR 6/24 Filed on 6/16 - Chicago
22. nning---Sp 07/06 Filed on May 21st,Audit review to 06/24,denied to july06, sponsorship from 07/06, in process from 07/28---chicago
 
Hard Copy LC in 3 days...

IndiraGandhi said:
Let your next steps go smoothly without any problems. Thanks for all the answers.
Click to expand...

Thank's Indira. Just wanted to inform you that today my employer received the hard copy of my certified LC (!!!) meaning they (DOL) really work fast: 1 week to approve the PERM, 3 days to receive the hard copy. Now starts the REAL slow and painful process with the BCIS...
I wish you and all the rest good-luck!
 
1. Rajaabhi - FR 06/24-Chicago
2. irinastaicu - FR 06/24-Chicago, filled 6/15, no conversion, RIR at BEC
3. psam123 - FR 06/28-Chicago
4. AnilMI - FR 06/29-Chicago
5. knowDOL - FR 07/01-Filed 6/14-Chicago(No conversion) - one RIR with SWA not yet in BEC
6. Prats - FR 07/08-Chicago
7. titu1972 - FR 07/12-Chicago
8. einmanninus - FR - 07/14-Chicago -No paper LC application, will start H1B from Oct. (currently using OPT)
9. gsn - FR 06/28-Chicago
10. sd_guy - FR 06/24-Chicago (+4 others in Final Review 6/24)
11. Gc_Reform - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/10, Pending RIR at SWA, NO BEC, NO Conversion
12. Cabal - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/6, (Sent Recruit Let 7/18)
13. coolz - FR 6/29 Chicago, Filed : 6/29
14. Jay2005 - FR 06/24; Filed : 06/02 - Chicago (One RIR in BEC, no conversion )
15. nhusson - FR 06/24; filed on 06/15 -- Chicago (No conversion) - one RIR
(SWA CA sep 2004) - not yet in BEC
16. abu2003 - FR; Filed on 05/24/05 - Chicago
17. deshu77 - FR; Filed on 06/02/05 - Chicago (1 more in Same Situation)
18. Goofy101 - FR 6/24, Filed on 5/23 -Chicago (5/24 - 6/24 Audit Review)
19. Bystander6 - FR 7/22, Filed on 7/22 - Chicago
20. CA_GreenCD - FR 7/27 - Chicago
21. ZlikeZebra - FR 6/24 Filed on 6/16 - Chicago
22. nning---Sp 07/06 Filed on May 21st,Audit review to 06/24,denied to july06, sponsorship from 07/06, in process from 07/28---chicago
23. Zoid - IP 7/28, Filed 7/1 - Snail Chicago
 
There is a depressing silence on this forum . Have DOL stopped working after 29? Did anybody enquire about the status? I will call in 2 weeks when 60 days have gone by.
 
Good Bye

It has been a nice experience participating in this forum and knowing you all. Finally I have decided to give up about my LC processing. I am sure I won't get any decision from PERM before retro happens for EB2 for Indians as I have one pending BEC app from same company. Good luck to you all for your PERM processing and Good bye.
 
I am considering to prepare EB1 application. I really hate to beg others for the reference letters. However, look at the PERM processing.....sign
 
irinastaicu said:
There is a depressing silence on this forum . Have DOL stopped working after 29? Did anybody enquire about the status? I will call in 2 weeks when 60 days have gone by.
Click to expand...
Well it seems that nobody has any new information. I am pretty much in the same boat as you (filed on 6/16) with one pending in the BEC as well. I guess we have to wait until we pass the 60 days mark.
 
Update

Hi all,

Its good to hear from vjperm - shows that things are atleast alive (if not moving very well). However, it is certainly frustrating to see that there have been no updates at all from Chicago.

I have a small update to share - but it is certainly not positive.
My PERM case was filed on 6/3 - so it has been 60 days today. I spoke with my HR manager and attorney today about this and they said that since there was a problem with the decision matrix and the system, they believe that the 60 days now should be counted from the day my application was re-run and went into sponsorship/ final review (which was 7/8). While I do not agree with them, I don't know where this puts me in terms of the overall process and I am feeling almost as frustrated as knowDOL.

I also called up the Chicago NPC again (312.886.8000) - usual; no updates on phone; please send a letter (not even an email!). I don't know what to do - I may just write them a letter and also send them an email but am not sure where things stand.

Will keep you all informed if there is any development at all - hope to hear from you all as well. Thanks and good wishes (most of all good hopes!) to all.

I am also updating my information below:

1. Rajaabhi - FR 06/24-Chicago
2. irinastaicu - FR 06/24-Chicago, filled 6/15, no conversion, RIR at BEC
3. psam123 - FR 06/28-Chicago
4. AnilMI - FR 06/29-Chicago
5. knowDOL - FR 07/01-Filed 6/14-Chicago(No conversion) - one RIR with SWA not yet in BEC
6. Prats - FR 07/08-Chicago (filed 6/3, denied 6/6, sponsorship 7/6, final review 7/8, in process 7/28); EB2; No conversion but RIR app also pending at BEC (no word on case entry/ 45 day letter)
7. titu1972 - FR 07/12-Chicago
8. einmanninus - FR - 07/14-Chicago -No paper LC application, will start H1B from Oct. (currently using OPT)
9. gsn - FR 06/28-Chicago
10. sd_guy - FR 06/24-Chicago (+4 others in Final Review 6/24)
11. Gc_Reform - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/10, Pending RIR at SWA, NO BEC, NO Conversion
12. Cabal - FR 06/24 Chicago, Filed 06/6, (Sent Recruit Let 7/18)
13. coolz - FR 6/29 Chicago, Filed : 6/29
14. Jay2005 - FR 06/24; Filed : 06/02 - Chicago (One RIR in BEC, no conversion )
15. nhusson - FR 06/24; filed on 06/15 -- Chicago (No conversion) - one RIR
(SWA CA sep 2004) - not yet in BEC
16. abu2003 - FR; Filed on 05/24/05 - Chicago
17. deshu77 - FR; Filed on 06/02/05 - Chicago (1 more in Same Situation)
18. Goofy101 - FR 6/24, Filed on 5/23 -Chicago (5/24 - 6/24 Audit Review)
19. Bystander6 - FR 7/22, Filed on 7/22 - Chicago
20. CA_GreenCD - FR 7/27 - Chicago
21. ZlikeZebra - FR 6/24 Filed on 6/16 - Chicago
22. nning---Sp 07/06 Filed on May 21st,Audit review to 06/24,denied to july06, sponsorship from 07/06, in process from 07/28---chicago
23. Zoid - IP 7/28, Filed 7/1 - Snail Chicago
 
To know DOL

If I don't get approval by this weekend, I am also planning to give up on PERM.( after spending so much time, money and energy).Good luck to all.
 
RIR at BEC but PERM Approved?

Hi Guys,
Did anyone got his/her EB-2 PERM (From Chicago) approved while RIR at
BEC is in pending state.
Thanks for your time.
- Kevin.
 
This may be the reason for the delay

Dilemma of Labor Department in Permanent Labor Certification Program Management

As we all know by now, the USCIS and DOL have been working on the rule-making process to eliminate the substitution of certified labor certification applications which have been considered a source of fraudulent activities in the employment-based immigration process. However, this rule-making will take time and as we reported earlier, the rule may not come into force probably until the end of this calendar year.
Currently there are two "huge" holes in the labor certification process that can induce the suspicious employers to engage in the fraudulent activities by obtaining labor certification applications for the non-existing jobs and using them for the substitutions for aliens. These "holes" have recently been created and aggravated by the transition of the permanent labor certification process from the conventional labor certification process to the new labor certification process in the name of PERM. The first big hole has developed when a PERM application is filed for the same job for which the employer has already filed a labor certification application before the new system started on March 28, 2005. When multiple applications are certified under this circumstance, the employers may be induced to use the "spare" certified application for the purpose of substitution. It appears that this is the "Fear Factor #1" for the DOL now. The DOL is currently unable to prevent this for the two reasons: First, the PERM system and the Backlog system are probably not linked each other such that the DOL can sort out such duplicative filings. Secondly, and more importantly, there are huge number of boxes which have yet to be opened, not to mention the delay in data entry at the Backlog Processing Centers. When they do not know what kind of cases they have in the Backlog boxes, there is no menas to detect such duplicative filings. Report indicates that the situation for the unopened boxes is serious for the applications in Texas because the State office in Texas delayed the shipment due to its prior outsourcing of applications to foreign contractors abroad. In fact, the special handling labor certification applications for the faculty positions have been held hostage because the Backlog Processing Centers have no way to find out where these cases were because there are so many unopened boxes and even if opened, the state offices shipped the boxes to the Backlog Centers without separating these cases in separate boxes. It appears that DOL may have no answer at this point to this potential source of fraud, should these backlog applications be certified before the substitution elimination regulation comes into force.
More serious huge hole is created by the PERM program. Because of the faults in the so-called "decision matrix," indeed majority of online filing have been denied. These denials produced two activities by the employers. Some employers have kept refiling the applications online over and over. Other employers have filed the same applications by mail. Reportedly, there are a huge number of applications pending for the same employers and the same employees in the PERM system. Pending the DOL decision to find a solution for this problem, the DOL announced certain policy on the denied cases to discourage the employers from refiling repeatedly for the denied cases and eventually removed the denial report system in the PERM online processing. Reportedly, they are reviewing the cases denied by the decision matrix before they issue paper denials, meaning that there will be no denials by the computer decision matrix alone unless such denials are reviewed by the analysts or certifying officers first. That's fair enough. However, the question for the DOL is what are they going to do with the huge duplicative filings which are pending in the PERM system itself! If these duplicative applications are all certified, it may induce the employers to engage in the alleged fraudulent activities filing substitutions as the regulation of elimination of substitutions may not come into play for the next several months. It appears that this is "Fear Factor #2" for the DOL at this time.
We do not know what their answers are or will be, but pending the cleansing of this mess, the employers and the alien beneficiaries are currently suffering tremendously in a "dark and deep blackhole!" We do not know what other "hell" one can think of when it comes to the depth and darkness." None of these cases is moving. They are stuck "in process" message! aMEN!!! "In Process" message is nothing but to discourage employers from refiling!!!
 
Irin,
Thanks for digging the information. This is certainly helpful. Honestly, I still think these are delaying tactics. Everyone knows, that locating a duplicate application online is simply a matter of matching certain fields in the database. All online applications have Name, Address and Date of Births information. That's good enough to track all the duplicates in the system. They can withhold or do whatever that want to do with the duplicate applications and mailed applications, but why are they putting on hold all the applications that are not in these catagories.
Same goes for already filed applications( at BEC etc), since there is no way to validate whether one has a pending application at BEC, whether I disclose that information or not, it should have no affect on my application. Simply speaking marking the checkbox or not marking it should have no affect in making the decision. If they are approving the ones those do not have a pending applications in BEC, one can simply mark it that way to get the favorable decision.
In the end it looks like it is going to be a waste to time, money and energy. It did help American economy as some papers have more bogus job ads in classified, some attorneyes will be making money and trying to learn the new system and in the process screw a few folks here and there, some DoL employees (or whatever they are) will be getting paid for doing nothing. Above all there will a lot of disappointed folks who put their trust in the system (probably for one last time) and suffered again like knowDoL, Jay2005.......list is too long :(
This is 21st century immigration system in a tech savy country!!!


irinastaicu said:
This may be the reason for the delay

Dilemma of Labor Department in Permanent Labor Certification Program Management

As we all know by now, the USCIS and DOL have been working on the rule-making process to eliminate the substitution of certified labor certification applications which have been considered a source of fraudulent activities in ...........................darkness." None of these cases is moving. They are stuck "in process" message! aMEN!!! "In Process" message is nothing but to discourage employers from refiling!!!
Click to expand...
 
You are correct GC_REFORM,
I certainly agree with you.
its not only wasting money and time. It's a mental tension to all of those who suffered, suffering with this immigration system.

We are paying our attorneys for nothing. They don't have a clue about this new PERM system.

Don't worry knowDoL, Jay2005.....You will have your day.

We wish every one get their labor fast and their GC get approved soon.
 
Not that it matters but...

I am suffering in BEC because in Dec 2003 Chicago decided they are planning on setting up for PERM so they stopped working on labor apps. In the result we all ended up in BEC without traceability.

Now not even a single case seemed to have been approved from Chicago via PERM, I cannot wait for 10 years just to get labor. I will retire by then....who knows if I will live that long.

Wow what a way to screw people. I cannot understand why nobody is questioning. Something from the top should change this whole DOL business.

GC_Reform said:
Irin,
Thanks for digging the information. This is certainly helpful. Honestly, I still think these are delaying tactics. Everyone knows, that locating a duplicate application online is simply a matter of matching certain fields in the database. All online applications have Name, Address and Date of Births information. That's good enough to track all the duplicates in the system. They can withhold or do whatever that want to do with the duplicate applications and mailed applications, but why are they putting on hold all the applications that are not in these catagories.
Same goes for already filed applications( at BEC etc), since there is no way to validate whether one has a pending application at BEC, whether I disclose that information or not, it should have no affect on my application. Simply speaking marking the checkbox or not marking it should have no affect in making the decision. If they are approving the ones those do not have a pending applications in BEC, one can simply mark it that way to get the favorable decision.
In the end it looks like it is going to be a waste to time, money and energy. It did help American economy as some papers have more bogus job ads in classified, some attorneyes will be making money and trying to learn the new system and in the process screw a few folks here and there, some DoL employees (or whatever they are) will be getting paid for doing nothing. Above all there will a lot of disappointed folks who put their trust in the system (probably for one last time) and suffered again like knowDoL, Jay2005.......list is too long :(
This is 21st century immigration system in a tech savy country!!!
Click to expand...
 
Totally Agree with GC_Reform

I totally concur with GC_Reform's view. Why is PERM made online then? If they have to compare applications manually :(
 
The initial design of the PERM was to allow the computer to screen cases until they reach final review. After that stage an CO is overseeing the application, making the final decision. The CO should approve or deny, without checking what the computer matrix did already. This is a reliable information. More than that, such as what type of analysis is the CO supposed to do I do not know. But no case was approved without an CO looking at the final stage.
What is going on now is hard to guess. I hope all of us are getting in touch with our lawyers, asking them to contact AILA or even DOL for some update. My guess is that after 6/24 change in matrix, all cases were approved by the computer (all, I mean too many in DOL's opinion), compared to initial months. They are doing a more profound manually analysis of all cases, to be able to deny many, or they are changing again the matrix. Have you heard lately denials like in the first 2 months? Too many cases passed the computer screen being in FR, not even in AR and this is not what DOL expected. Overall I understand their concern,but....it should take days not weeks or months to fix this problem . How many apllications do they have already? It is a 2 month backlog!. It should not last more than a week. Anyway, we should hear something, since I guess all of are trying to contact our lawyers for an answer.
 
irinastaicu said:
The initial design of the PERM was to allow the computer to screen cases until they reach final review. After that stage an CO is overseeing the application, making the final decision. The CO should approve or deny, without checking what the computer matrix did already. This is a reliable information. More than that, such as what type of analysis is the CO supposed to do I do not know. But no case was approved without an CO looking at the final stage.
What is going on now is hard to guess. I hope all of us are getting in touch with our lawyers, asking them to contact AILA or even DOL for some update. My guess is that after 6/24 change in matrix, all cases were approved by the computer (all, I mean too many in DOL's opinion), compared to initial months. They are doing a more profound manually analysis of all cases, to be able to deny many, or they are changing again the matrix. Have you heard lately denials like in the first 2 months? Too many cases passed the computer screen being in FR, not even in AR and this is not what DOL expected. Overall I understand their concern,but....it should take days not weeks or months to fix this problem . How many apllications do they have already? It is a 2 month backlog!. It should not last more than a week. Anyway, we should hear something, since I guess all of are trying to contact our lawyers for an answer.
Click to expand...



This is correct!
It was even stated by one of the previous DOL statements about the decision process.

You can follow that here:

http://www.usavisanow.com/12-27-04.html

Quote:

PERM Decisions

* The DOL Certifying Officer (CO) may approve, deny, require an audit; following an audit, the Certifying Officer may order supervised recruitment (to be administered by the CO instead of the SWA)
* No criteria in the regulation for ordering an audit or for ordering supervised recruitment � some applications will be randomly selected for audit
* Decisions are expected within 45 to 60 days
* Employers will have 30 days to respond to an �Audit Letter;� Certifying Officers may grant a single 30 day extension �for good cause.�
* Failure to respond to an Audit Letter will result in denial of the application, and may result in a finding of fraud or misrepresentation
* If the CO determines there was fraud or misrepresentation on an application, the CO may penalize the employer by ordering supervised recruitment for all applications filed by the offending employer for 2 years
* The CO may revoke a prior approval at any time after providing notice of intent to revoke � employers will have 30 days to submit a rebuttal; the CO will issue a decision within 30 days of receipt of the employer�s rebuttal evidence
 
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