Parents withholding Certificate of Citizenship and SSN Card

F

frozenfire

Registered Users (C)
My mother and I had a falling out and she claims to have destroyed my citizenship documents(ssn and certificate of citizenship). I have tried applying for a replacement with N-565 but that took almost a year and I was denied a replacement for not supplying enough evidence, even though I sent in everything they asked for, twice actually. I'm not sure what to do. I have a job offer with the federal government and I can't take it without proof of citizenship. All I have is a birth certificate and a license, I really don't know what I can do to get an immediate copy of my certificate of citizenship. Can anyone tell me if they have had experience applying for a replacement certificate using N-565 and maybe what I can do to try and get the replacement fast? Or if there is anything I can do to convince my mother to give me my documents(assuming she hasn't destroyed them).
 
frozenfire said:
My mother and I had a falling out and she claims to have destroyed my citizenship documents(ssn and certificate of citizenship). I have tried applying for a replacement with N-565 but that took almost a year and I was denied a replacement for not supplying enough evidence, even though I sent in everything they asked for, twice actually. I'm not sure what to do. I have a job offer with the federal government and I can't take it without proof of citizenship. All I have is a birth certificate and a license, I really don't know what I can do to get an immediate copy of my certificate of citizenship. Can anyone tell me if they have had experience applying for a replacement certificate using N-565 and maybe what I can do to try and get the replacement fast? Or if there is anything I can do to convince my mother to give me my documents(assuming she hasn't destroyed them).
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1.) Are you sure that you actually had a certificate from INS (now USCIS)?

2.) IF you had something once upon a time, was it an FS-240 issued by the State Department?

3.) What was the reason for N-565 denial?

4.) Did USCIS tell you to file an N-600 instead?

5.) Did USCIS indicate that you are NOT a USC or merely that you failed to prove it?

6.) Did you ever have a greencard?

7.) Did you ever have a U.S. Passport?

8.) Perhaps you are actually an alien unlawfully present in the U.S. and don't realize it?
 
BigJoe5 said:
1.) Are you sure that you actually had a certificate from INS (now USCIS)?

2.) IF you had something once upon a time, was it an FS-240 issued by the State Department?

3.) What was the reason for N-565 denial?

4.) Did USCIS tell you to file an N-600 instead?

5.) Did USCIS indicate that you are NOT a USC or merely that you failed to prove it?

6.) Did you ever have a greencard?

7.) Did you ever have a U.S. Passport?

8.) Perhaps you are actually an alien unlawfully present in the U.S. and don't realize it?
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1) Yes, I have a photo copy of it still. I also currently work for the US Federal Government(Department of Defense) where it is a requirement to be a US Citizen.
2)Not sure?
3)Insufficient evidence, although I submitted everything they asked for.
4)No
5) Failed to prove it I guess? Not sure.
6) No?
7) No.
8) No, lol.
 
frozenfire said:
1) Yes, I have a photo copy of it still. I also currently work for the US Federal Government(Department of Defense) where it is a requirement to be a US Citizen.
2)Not sure?
3)Insufficient evidence, although I submitted everything they asked for.
4)No
5) Failed to prove it I guess? Not sure.
6) No?
7) No.
8) No, lol.
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If you have a copy of a Certificate of Citizenship there is no real reason to deny a replacement UNLESS it cannot be authenticated. Either the records are lost (or so well buried or poorly identified that they could not be located) or it's a fake certificate.

What does this copy look like? Does it have various numbers on it to help identify a larger record in a Naturalization Court or old INS records?

What does it say? How is it tilted? Is there a "form number" printed on it? If yes, what is it? Does it list any useful information beyond your personally identifying information? The section of law, the place of application and issuance, the date of issuance? All of that can help track down a record somewhere if one exists. The potential exists that your information is inside a parent's file.
 
BigJoe5 said:
If you have a copy of a Certificate of Citizenship there is no real reason to deny a replacement UNLESS it cannot be authenticated. Either the records are lost (or so well buried or poorly identified that they could not be located) or it's a fake certificate.

What does this copy look like? Does it have various numbers on it to help identify a larger record in a Naturalization Court or old INS records?

What does it say? How is it tilted? Is there a "form number" printed on it? If yes, what is it? Does it list any useful information beyond your personally identifying information? The section of law, the place of application and issuance, the date of issuance? All of that can help track down a record somewhere if one exists. The potential exists that your information is inside a parent's file.
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Well if it is a fake, then it was good enough to get by the investigators who did my security clearance for the Department of Defense, and my parents have been lying to me this entire time. The document has all of this information you are asking, but is it okay to just post it all on here? I am really just wondering why I was denied a replacement, I don't see how it is so hard knowing that I am a citizen and gave them everything they requested for.
 
frozenfire said:
Well if it is a fake, then it was good enough to get by the investigators who did my security clearance for the Department of Defense, and my parents have been lying to me this entire time. The document has all of this information you are asking, but is it okay to just post it all on here? I am really just wondering why I was denied a replacement, I don't see how it is so hard knowing that I am a citizen and gave them everything they requested for.
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Leave out the PII and post the other details. Date, place, title of cert, form # printed on cert, section of law (if stated), etc...

If you provided a copy to DoD up front, they might only be "getting around" to checking it now. How long have you been employed by DoD? Various gov agencies can take months or years to complete investigations.
 
BigJoe5 said:
Leave out the PII and post the other details. Date, place, title of cert, form # printed on cert, section of law (if stated), etc...

If you provided a copy to DoD up front, they might only be "getting around" to checking it now. How long have you been employed by DoD? Various gov agencies can take months or years to complete investigations.
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just curious, will you be able to actually help? And if so, how? I don't want to post all of this private information on the internet for everyone to see.

I've been working for the DoD for two years now, and my investigation was completed over a year ago after about 6 months on the job. I'm fairly certain I am a citizen so I don't think you have to keep suggesting I am an illegal alien, lol.
 
frozenfire said:
just curious, will you be able to actually help? And if so, how? I don't want to post all of this private information on the internet for everyone to see.

I've been working for the DoD for two years now, and my investigation was completed over a year ago after about 6 months on the job. I'm fairly certain I am a citizen so I don't think you have to keep suggesting I am an illegal alien, lol.
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What the heck are you on? I specifically said leave out PII (Personally Identifying Information). What is so "private" about stating a date and location? What is so private about looking for a form number pre-printed on a standard form? Now you are only "fairly certain" about your citizenship.

IF you obtained a certificate in a court, do you know how to contact that court or even identify it?

IF you obtained a certificate from INS or USCIS, which office?

IF you were a USC born abroad, which law made you a citizen at birth?

IF you sought recognition of citizenship from a consulate or embassy, did you (or your parents) obtain a Consular Report (FS-240) or only a passport? DOS is the agency that could verify and replace a Consular Report--Not USCIS!

You are uncertain if you ever had a green card? It is unclear if you may have "derived" citizenship from a parent or parents who naturalized or if you might have "acquired" citizenship at birth abroad.

You are very unclear about a number of things. Since you won't provide basic information, please go see an immigration attorney and figure it out that way.

Vague and evasive responses and non-responses to specific questions will get you nowhere. I'm done.
 
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BigJoe5 said:
What the heck are you on? I specifically said leave out PII (Personally Identifying Information). What is so "private" about stating a date and location? What is so private about looking for a form number pre-printed on a standard form? Now you are only "fairly certain" about your citizenship.

IF you obtained a certificate in a court, do you know how to contact that court or even identify it?

IF you obtained a certificate from INS or USCIS, which office?

IF you were a USC born abroad, which law made you a citizen at birth?

IF you sought recognition of citizenship from a consulate or embassy, did you (or your parents) obtain a Consular Report (FS-240) or only a passport? DOS is the agency that could verify and replace a Consular Report--Not USCIS!

You are uncertain if you ever had a green card? It is unclear if you may have "derived" citizenship from a parent or parents who naturalized or if you might have "acquired" citizenship at birth abroad.

You are very unclear about a number of things. Since you won't provide basic information, please go see an immigration attorney and figure it out that way.

Vague and evasive responses and non-responses to specific questions will get you nowhere. I'm done.
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I didn't know what PII stood for, and I am very scared to post information on the internet for all to see. That is why i am being evasive. I am not sure how I am being vague, I answered the other questions you originally asked. And to be honest I don't know the answers to any of the questions you just asked above, I was adopted by two US citizens and they have no idea about any of the information above either, as I have asked them.
 
frozenfire said:
I didn't know what PII stood for, and I am very scared to post information on the internet for all to see. That is why i am being evasive. I am not sure how I am being vague, I answered the other questions you originally asked. And to be honest I don't know the answers to any of the questions you just asked above, I was adopted by two US citizens and they have no idea about any of the information above either, as I have asked them.
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Now we are getting to the REAL ISSUE. Everything else that came before is now virtually totally irrelevant and useless.

You have finally stumbled upon the core issue. YOU are adopted. THAT changes everything!

Were you age 18 or older on Feb 27, 2001 (that was the effective date of a major change in the law which may be dispositive of the outcome of your situation).

Do you know your birth name and country of birth?

Under the old law, an adopted child had to go through "expedited naturalization" by the parents' filing an N-643. Under the old law, the child had to be "naturalized" before the 18th birthday. Many infants and toddlers go through this without understanding what it is. On the other hand, many parents screwed up and did not follow through.

Effective upon the CCA effective date---Feb 27, 2001, adopted children who were still under 18 and "otherwise eligible" automatically acquired USC just like biological children.

I suggest that you gather everything you can and make an InfoPass appt at USCIS and beg for help sorting this out. State up front that you need an expert in child citizenship and adoption as well as searching for records.
 
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BigJoe5 said:
Now we are getting to the REAL ISSUE. Everything else that came before is now virtually totally irrelevant and useless.

You have finally stumbled upon the core issue. YOU are adopted. THAT changes everything!

Were you age 18 or older on Feb 27, 2001 (that was the effective date of a major change in the law which may be dispositive of the outcome of your situation).

Do you know your birth name and country of birth?

Under the old law, an adopted child had to go through "expedited naturalization" by the parents' filing an N-643. Under the old law, the child had to be "naturalized" before the 18th birthday. Many infants and toddlers go through this without understanding what it is. On the other hand, many parents screwed up and did not follow through.

Effective upon the CCA effective date---Feb 27, 2001, adopted children who were still under 18 and "otherwise eligible" automatically acquired USC just like biological children.

I suggest that you gather everything you can and make an InfoPass appt at USCIS and beg for help sorting this out. State up front that you need an expert in child citizenship and adoption as well as searching for records.
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I do know my birth name and country of birth. The name on the photocopy of the Certificate of Citizenship that I have now is the name I currently go by, and to be honest, did not even know I had another name until I had looked at my adoption papers that I just received. On Feb 27th, 2001, I was not 18, I was born 5/26/1986.

I did set up an InfoPass appt yesterday and was talking to an immigration officer for over an hour, and after they looked at the photocopy and looked up the numbers on the certificate, they were unable to find my records. The A# on my certificate linked to my old name I was born with, which is weird because the name on the certificate is my current name. The old name, I was told, does not have a US citizenship, so they are requesting for that file to be sent to their office(I think, a lot of what they said was over my head and I'm not sure exactly if I interpretted it correctly. But apparently they are requesting the file that holds all the information for my old name and hoping it contains information on my name change) My adopted dad said that my name was changed as soon as the adoption was completed(he thinks). Basically the immigration officer I spoke with was just as confused as I was and he said there isnt anything I can do except wait and hope they find something in that file that they requested. I still just don't understand how it is so complicated to find my file as I have gone by my current name my entire life and it is the name on my birth certificate and the photocopy of my certificate of citizenship earlier.

By the way, I am sorry if I came off rude earlier, this has been an entirely frustrating process that has been going on for over a year and I desperately need to get some sort of proof of citizenship ASAP in order to take a new job position.

I do appreciate the help you have given me thus far.
 
frozenfire said:
I do know my birth name and country of birth. The name on the photocopy of the Certificate of Citizenship that I have now is the name I currently go by, and to be honest, did not even know I had another name until I had looked at my adoption papers that I just received. On Feb 27th, 2001, I was not 18, I was born 5/26/1986.

I did set up an InfoPass appt yesterday and was talking to an immigration officer for over an hour, and after they looked at the photocopy and looked up the numbers on the certificate, they were unable to find my records. The A# on my certificate linked to my old name I was born with, which is weird because the name on the certificate is my current name. The old name, I was told, does not have a US citizenship, so they are requesting for that file to be sent to their office(I think, a lot of what they said was over my head and I'm not sure exactly if I interpretted it correctly. But apparently they are requesting the file that holds all the information for my old name and hoping it contains information on my name change) My adopted dad said that my name was changed as soon as the adoption was completed(he thinks). Basically the immigration officer I spoke with was just as confused as I was and he said there isnt anything I can do except wait and hope they find something in that file that they requested. I still just don't understand how it is so complicated to find my file as I have gone by my current name my entire life and it is the name on my birth certificate and the photocopy of my certificate of citizenship earlier.

By the way, I am sorry if I came off rude earlier, this has been an entirely frustrating process that has been going on for over a year and I desperately need to get some sort of proof of citizenship ASAP in order to take a new job position.

I do appreciate the help you have given me thus far.
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My young friend, your case was handled prior to INS becoming so computer savvy. You have physical paper files buried in a hollowed out mountain in Missouri.

Add to that the name confusion and you may start to see some of the problems more clearly.

There are several different paths for an adopted child to take.

One can be adopted by foreign parents and later immigrate with them.

A USC can adopt a child abroad completely outside of the Immigration realm (often a USC residing abroad may adopt a stepchild) and at some point the USC and family return to the U.S. Sometimes they take care of all the family members' immigration paperwork abroad and the USC brings them back as lawful immigrants. In this case some adopted children (in the past) required an extra step to get citizenship because of that. Many time parents failed to take the extra step (that is why Congress changed the law---the Child Citizenship Act of 200 (CCA) becanme effective 2/27/2001). This may be good for YOU!

Sometimes USC parents bring the adopted child back without an immigrant visa and they don't get a grencard or citizenship. This often happens to Canadian kids and NOT just adopted ones but steps and biological kids too.

Other times, USC parents adopt an Orphan via a distinct immigration process using form I-600 (and now also form I-800). Orphan adoptions may have one of two results: A complete full adoption whereby the child automatically acquires USC upon entry or an incomplete adoption which requires additional steps to attain citizenship. This last part remains true today even after the law was changed.

It is NO WONDER that whoever you talked to was confused. It is a very confusing area of law.

************************************

When you go back to USCIS, ask the Officer to search CIS by the certificate number. You will have a single A certificate. It must be searched by adding the letter D to the front of it. CIS will find your DA number which indicates that you derive citizenship after birth.

CIS = Central Index System

I think the Officer will need to do a 9101 search--let him/her figure that part out if I have the code wrong.

Lastly, your adoption paperwork should contain the name change authorization.
 
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BigJoe5 said:
My young friend, your case was handled prior to INS becoming so computer savvy. You have physical paper files buried in a hollowed out mountain in Missouri.

Add to that the name confusion and you may start to see some of the problems more clearly.

There are several different paths for an adopted child to take.

One can be adopted by foreign parents and later immigrate with them.

A USC can adopt a child abroad completely outside of the Immigration realm (often a USC residing abroad may adopt a stepchild) and at some point the USC and family return to the U.S. Sometimes they take care of all the family members' immigration paperwork abroad and the USC brings them back as lawful immigrants. In this case some adopted children (in the past) required an extra step to get citizenship because of that. Many time parents failed to take the extra step (that is why Congress changed the law---the Child Citizenship Act of 200 (CCA) becanme effective 2/27/2001). This may be good for YOU!

Sometimes USC parents bring the adopted child back without an immigrant visa and they don't get a grencard or citizenship. This often happens to Canadian kids and NOT just adopted ones but steps and biological kids too.

Other times, USC parents adopt an Orphan via a distinct immigration process using form I-600 (and now also form I-800). Orphan adoptions may have one of two results: A complete full adoption whereby the child automatically acquires USC upon entry or an incomplete adoption which requires additional steps to attain citizenship. This last part remains true today even after the law was changed.

It is NO WONDER that whoever you talked to was confused. It is a very confusing area of law.

************************************

When you go back to USCIS, ask the Officer to search CIS by the certificate number. You will have a single A certificate. It must be searched by adding the letter D to the front of it. CIS will find your DA number which indicates that you derive citizenship after birth.

CIS = Central Index System

I think the Officer will need to do a 9101 search--let him/her figure that part out if I have the code wrong.

Lastly, your adoption paperwork should contain the name change authorization.
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I have no idea which option my parents took. All my dad knows is that he got it done at the Memphis courthouse in Tennessee. I was told that I would be contacted in a few weeks when they receive the "file" that they requested on me, I still am not sure what this file is going to contain that they could not look up. Should I try and contact them again with this information you gave me regarding the DA number and the 9101 search ASAP, or wait until they contact me with this file?

Also, I have my entire adoption paperwork file and the Officer went through it and did not see anything for a name change authorization, he was looking for this specifically but it wasn't there. My dad did say that my name change occured through the adoption, so I'm not sure where that name change information could be.
 
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frozenfire said:
I have no idea which option my parents took. All my dad knows is that he got it done at the Memphis courthouse in Tennessee. I was told that I would be contacted in a few weeks when they receive the "file" that they requested on me, I still am not sure what this file is going to contain that they could not look up. Should I try and contact them again with this information you gave me regarding the DA number and the 9101 search ASAP, or wait until they contact me with this file?

Also, I have my entire adoption paperwork file and the Officer went through it and did not see anything for a name change authorization, he was looking for this specifically but it wasn't there. My dad did say that my name change occured through the adoption, so I'm not sure where that name change information could be.
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I think you will feel better (and probably sleep better) if you go back to USCIS ASAP. InfoPass if you must (unless that Officer gave you an alternative means of communication). IF you encounter a low level Officer with limited experience, do not be afraid to ask to speak with a more experienced Officer or Supervisor. Even if the Officer feels offended, you will be doing him or her a favor in expanding their knowledge.

As for the name issue. There are other "possibilities". In some (most actually) jurisdictions, there is the option of a "common-law" name change. It would be tied to the specific location where it took place. INS and USCIS have accepted such changes when issuing Certificates of Citizenship. Yet another "possibility" exists: some adopted children are issued new U.S. birth certificates (showing foreign birth) which may embody the name change.

One more thing to ask about--ask them to check for an N-600 for you in RNACS (another database) using the A# from your certificate. This is the different INS/USCIS Administrative or Alien (A-file) Number. It is different than the Certificate Number which also starts with the letter "A"..

Good Luck!
 
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BigJoe5 said:
I think you will feel better (and probably sleep better) if you go back to USCIS ASAP. InfoPass if you must (unless that Officer gave you an alternative means of communication). IF you encounter a low level Officer with limited experience, do not be afraid to ask to speak with a more experienced Officer or Supervisor. Even if the Officer feels offended, you will be doing him or her a favor in expanding their knowledge.

As for the name issue. There are other "possibilities". In some (most actually) jurisdictions, there is the option of a "common-law" name change. It would be tied to the specific location where it took place. INS and USCIS have accepted such changes when issuing Certificates of Citizenship. Yet another "possibility" exists: some adopted children are issued new U.S. birth certificates (showing foreign birth) which may embody the name change.

One more thing to ask about--ask them to check for an N-600 for you in RNACS (another database) using the A# from your certificate. This is the different INS/USCIS Administrative or Alien (A-file) Number. It is different than the Certificate Number which also starts with the letter "A"..

Good Luck!
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So my certificate has two A numbers, one is "No. A######" and another is "Application No A## ### ###"
Which one is which?

Also, if I PM you is there anyway you can look up this information for me, or would I need to go to a USCIS office(which is 2 hours away and requires me to take vacation from work).

Thanks again for all of your help and information.
 
frozenfire said:
So my certificate has two A numbers, one is "No. A######" and another is "Application No A## ### ###"
Which one is which?

Also, if I PM you is there anyway you can look up this information for me, or would I need to go to a USCIS office(which is 2 hours away and requires me to take vacation from work).

Thanks again for all of your help and information.
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So I went back to speak with USCIS again, and the person I originally spoke with was out, and the new officer I spoke with was very rude and would not even let me explain to her what you were trying to tell me about how to search for my information. I tried to get her to do the search by adding a "D" in front of my A number and she refused. She told me I had to just wait for my file to come in that they ordered last week.
 
frozenfire said:
So I went back to speak with USCIS again, and the person I originally spoke with was out, and the new officer I spoke with was very rude and would not even let me explain to her what you were trying to tell me about how to search for my information. I tried to get her to do the search by adding a "D" in front of my A number and she refused. She told me I had to just wait for my file to come in that they ordered last week.
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I hope you got the rude person's name so that you can report it.

Report USCIS Employee Misconduct

Anyone with knowledge or suspicion of criminal violations, misconduct, wasteful activities or allegations of civil rights or civil liberties abuse by a USCIS employee should report specific information such as date, time and location of the incident, the specific nature of the alleged misconduct, and the name(s) of employee(s) involved, to the DHS Office of the Inspector General (OIG) by any of the following ways:

Toll-free DHS Hotline at 1-800-323-8603
By fax at 202-254-4292
Via email at dhsoighotline@dhs.gov
Or by mail at the following address:

Department of Homeland Security
Attn: Office of the Inspector General
245 Murray Drive, Building 410 Stop: 2600
Washington, D.C. 20528

See "Report USCIS Employee Misconduct" link: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4a6e0b89284a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
 
BigJoe5 said:
I hope you got the rude person's name so that you can report it.

Report USCIS Employee Misconduct

Anyone with knowledge or suspicion of criminal violations, misconduct, wasteful activities or allegations of civil rights or civil liberties abuse by a USCIS employee should report specific information such as date, time and location of the incident, the specific nature of the alleged misconduct, and the name(s) of employee(s) involved, to the DHS Office of the Inspector General (OIG) by any of the following ways:

Toll-free DHS Hotline at 1-800-323-8603
By fax at 202-254-4292
Via email at dhsoighotline@dhs.gov
Or by mail at the following address:

Department of Homeland Security
Attn: Office of the Inspector General
245 Murray Drive, Building 410 Stop: 2600
Washington, D.C. 20528

See "Report USCIS Employee Misconduct" link: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4a6e0b89284a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
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I did not...she wasn't really rude I guess, it was more that she just refused to help me and told me I simply had to wait, and kept repeating herself every time I asked a question. Which I guess is sort of rude, nevermind.

But onto the actual issue...Do you know of any way I can prove citizenship for my employment opportunity that would not require me getting my certificate of citizenship? I have looked into getting a social security card or a passport, but the websites both state you need the certificate of citizenship to get those, is there anyway either of those (SS card or passport agency) will be able to look me up somehow to find that I am a citizen? Or is there any other way I am not thinking of? I do have a birth certificate issued by the "State of Tennessee Department of Health" vital records. I am not sure if you are familiar with the form I-9 for employment, but if you are, do you know if this is acceptable for that form?
 
frozenfire said:
I did not...she wasn't really rude I guess, it was more that she just refused to help me and told me I simply had to wait, and kept repeating herself every time I asked a question. Which I guess is sort of rude, nevermind.

But onto the actual issue...Do you know of any way I can prove citizenship for my employment opportunity that would not require me getting my certificate of citizenship? I have looked into getting a social security card or a passport, but the websites both state you need the certificate of citizenship to get those, is there anyway either of those (SS card or passport agency) will be able to look me up somehow to find that I am a citizen? Or is there any other way I am not thinking of? I do have a birth certificate issued by the "State of Tennessee Department of Health" vital records. I am not sure if you are familiar with the form I-9 for employment, but if you are, do you know if this is acceptable for that form?
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Did you try to "Self E-Verify"? That might buy some time while you wait for your A-file to arrive. Please don't tell me that you don't know your SSN. That is in so many places that you should have access to that it is a ridiculous assertion.

DOJ has info posted here and an 800# Hotline: http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/osc/htm/I9_Verification.php

E-Verify Self-Check: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=2ec07cd67450d210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
 
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