sanjoseaug20
Registered Users (C)
Yes.
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Obtaining Original Date of GC
- Thread starter seoulite
- Start date
Yes.
Ok guys, a bit of an update. She has all of the documentation required: 1) foreign birth certificate with certified translations 2) proof of lawful admission into the US (her green card) 3) now this is where we run into a bit of an issue - let's say, hypothetically, that her father can't provide the certificate of citizenship. Can she submit his US passport as evidence of US citizenship?
You'll have to ask the Passport Agency. They would be asked to make the same determination as USCIS makes on the N-600 and is within their right to require the same evidence. Everybody else on here usually reports that they DO submit the parent's Naturalization Certificate for a child who DERIVES USC upon the parent's naturalization. The child's USC is determined by the date of the parent's naturalization and the child's age on that date. In her particular circumstances it is a close call so, DOS will probably demand dad's certificate in the original, not a copy.
On the other hand, they will accept HER Certificate of Citizenship without dad's.
USCIS already has all her evidence, but they take longer to grant the N-600. Check the processing time for the local office for the N-600.
On the other hand, they will accept HER Certificate of Citizenship without dad's.
USCIS already has all her evidence, but they take longer to grant the N-600. Check the processing time for the local office for the N-600.
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Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Ok guys, a bit of an update. She has all of the documentation required: 1) foreign birth certificate with certified translations 2) proof of lawful admission into the US (her green card) 3) now this is where we run into a bit of an issue - let's say, hypothetically, that her father can't provide the certificate of citizenship. Can she submit his US passport as evidence of US citizenship?
If her father's passport was issued before she turned 18, that will be sufficient for proving he had citizenship before her 18th birthday, as far as applying for her passport is concerned.
Note that because she is claiming citizenship through her father, she should also produce the marriage certificate to establish the paternal relationship (if married at the time of birth), or other evidence of paternity such as a DNA test or a court ruling of paternity. That additional evidence is not required if she was claiming citizenship through her mother, because there is rarely any doubt about who is the mother.
If her parents were separated or divorced when she was under 18, she would also need to provide evidence that her father was granted custody (partial or full), and that she was physically living with him at some time between his naturalization and her 18th birthday.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
I checked with her and her father became a naturalized citizen in June 2001, and received his passport in September of that year. At that time she was 17 years old. She is currently 25 years old ...
That doesn't compute. If she is 25 now, that means she would have been no older than 16 at the start of November 2001, thus making it impossible for her to have been 17 in June or Sept. 2001.
You miscalculated something somewhere. Double-check the dates to make sure she was indeed under 18 at the time of her father's naturalization (or at the time of her father's passport issuance, if unable to obtain her father's naturalization certificate).
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Her birthday is in December, so in September of 2001 she was still 16 years old (I don't know why I rounded up). She was definitely under the age of 18 when her father received citizenship. She will be turning 26 in a few days.
Hopefully the father's passport is enough to establish US Citizenship because there may be an issue with the certificate of citizenship. I will also check on the marriage certificate. Thanks for all the help so far, you guys have been amazing.
Hopefully the father's passport is enough to establish US Citizenship because there may be an issue with the certificate of citizenship. I will also check on the marriage certificate. Thanks for all the help so far, you guys have been amazing.
Update: Found father's certificate of citizenship, so she had all necessary documents ready to present for her application for a US passport. She went into the passport office this morning, they took all of her info, and said that she will receive notification in 8-10 weeks. Sounds like everything is kosher now. Hopefully there are no more problems.
Just one more question: If she receives a US passport, does that become her proof of US citizenship because she became a citizen automatically through a naturalized parent? She doesn't need a certificate, or to take an oath or anything? That's how I understood it, but just wanted to clarify. Thanks again for everything.
Just one more question: If she receives a US passport, does that become her proof of US citizenship because she became a citizen automatically through a naturalized parent? She doesn't need a certificate, or to take an oath or anything? That's how I understood it, but just wanted to clarify. Thanks again for everything.
Al Southner
Registered Users (C)
Once the passport is issued, that's proof of US citizenship. There is no oath required, reserved for naturalized citizens only, she will be one technically, but doesn't require oath. She can apply for Certificate of Citizenship, which should take couple of months and cost her some $$$ and she will have her own proof of US citizenship, plus her US passport.
A Certificate of Citizenship via an N-600 is not required but it is a good idea. A Certificate does not expire but a passport does (every 10 years for an adult). The Immigration database will still indicate that she is an LPR unless an N-600 is filed and approved and a certificate is issued.
That won't be a problem until there is a problem. When she is old and getting ready to retire and collect her social security (you know, when she's 70 or so) and SSA says, we can't prove your status as a USC, sorry, go get proof. Hope she kept up her passport at that moment. She can file an N-600 then when the price is $?,000.00 Or she can wait until she becomes disabled and applies for SSA Disability or SSI benefits and they say, sorry, we can't verify your citizenship. Or when she loses her passport in a foreign country (not her country of birth) and only has an old expired greencard---don't know what she'll do then?
There is no possible way she will ever get arrested (not even by mistake) and placed into ICE detention because ICE looked in the computer and saw she was an LPR rather than a USC. NO, that never happens?? Quite a few derivative USC's apply from detention.
Did you know that USCIS only gets about 2% of its budget from Congress and the other 2+ billion dollars per year of their budget comes from fees? And did you know that there are a large number of benefits that Congress has mandated shall have NO FEE (asylum, military naturalizations, refugee processing, certain EAD's, and don't you love that brand new fee waiver form they just created to make it even easier to get a fee waiver on even more forms!)
I suppose that's why Congress gave them orders to reasses the fees every two years and adjust them. OH! How are they managing to pay for all those computer upgrades that everbody is demanding? Maybe that is one of the reasons that the fees usually go up for MOST forms every 2 years?
An N-400 cost $95 until 1998, today it is $680, just for some perspective. The N-600 used to be $160 in 1998, now it is $600, a bit more perspective.
That won't be a problem until there is a problem. When she is old and getting ready to retire and collect her social security (you know, when she's 70 or so) and SSA says, we can't prove your status as a USC, sorry, go get proof. Hope she kept up her passport at that moment. She can file an N-600 then when the price is $?,000.00 Or she can wait until she becomes disabled and applies for SSA Disability or SSI benefits and they say, sorry, we can't verify your citizenship. Or when she loses her passport in a foreign country (not her country of birth) and only has an old expired greencard---don't know what she'll do then?
There is no possible way she will ever get arrested (not even by mistake) and placed into ICE detention because ICE looked in the computer and saw she was an LPR rather than a USC. NO, that never happens?? Quite a few derivative USC's apply from detention.
Did you know that USCIS only gets about 2% of its budget from Congress and the other 2+ billion dollars per year of their budget comes from fees? And did you know that there are a large number of benefits that Congress has mandated shall have NO FEE (asylum, military naturalizations, refugee processing, certain EAD's, and don't you love that brand new fee waiver form they just created to make it even easier to get a fee waiver on even more forms!)
I suppose that's why Congress gave them orders to reasses the fees every two years and adjust them. OH! How are they managing to pay for all those computer upgrades that everbody is demanding? Maybe that is one of the reasons that the fees usually go up for MOST forms every 2 years?
An N-400 cost $95 until 1998, today it is $680, just for some perspective. The N-600 used to be $160 in 1998, now it is $600, a bit more perspective.
I understand your point. She also applied for a passport card. If she were to lose her US passport abroad, would the passport card be sufficient proof of her status? Also, if she were to lose her passport, when she reapplies for a new one, wouldn't they have all of her information on file? And finally, in terms of Social Security (even though that's a long way down the road) if she did keep renewing her passport up until that age, that would be enough proof to qualify, correct?
sanjoseaug20
Registered Users (C)
I understand your point. She also applied for a passport card. If she were to lose her US passport abroad, would the passport card be sufficient proof of her status? Also, if she were to lose her passport, when she reapplies for a new one, wouldn't they have all of her information on file? And finally, in terms of Social Security (even though that's a long way down the road) if she did keep renewing her passport up until that age, that would be enough proof to qualify, correct?
You could do that. And to add to your argument, I am sure there are thousands of such people (if not more) who have passport but no certificate of citizenship. Does it really matter? Probably not.
On the other hand, given the effort you are making now, it is just a wee bit more effort to get this one also. 20 years later, you never know.
A passport card would help in applying for a new passport at a U.S. Consulate abroad but is only good for land border crossing with Canada or Mexico (Mexico is being pissy about it). It's no good for flying.
No, the State Department doesn't have the type of filing system that USCIS (DHS) uses. DOS deals with ALL USC's (current U.S. population is around 335 million living in the U.S. today. PLUS all the passports they've issued since they started keeping records would add up to more than a billion), so they don't bother.
DHS (USCIS is THE record keeper for A-files) has around 100 million A-files covering immigrants who have entered for just under the past 100 years (this includes folks who have naturalized). Still a huge amount of files and as you will learn, A-files are thick and only get thicker. The main repository is in a hollowed out mountain in Missouri. Most "active" files are spread out at the District/Field Offices and Service Centers around the country and in international offices.
Have you heard of E-Verify? It is the database developed and maintained by USCIS and incorporates data sharing with certain other government databases including SSA as part of it. SSA updates when a person naturalizes only when a person brings in proof of a change in status otherwise it does not automatically read what is in the USCIS database for status. But they will verify the proof shown with USCIS Verification Branch (USCIS employees look in the computer and tell SSA if the person's status has changed in USCIS records or not.) People who skip the N-600 may well be USC's but will have problems with SSA even with a passport. The datashare is one-way, SSA to USCIS's E-verify. E-verify is accessed by employers who only want to know ONE thing--work authorization, yes or no. E-verify starts with USCIS, then SSA, and only progresses from there IF it has to. IF E-verify goes further and gets conflicting info that is a tenative response telling the employer to tell the employee to go straighten things out. An LPR who derives USC and skips the N-600 will be OK'd to work becuase they show as an LPR and have a work authorized SSN. Thge sytem does not go any further so no conflict is know at that time---while still working.
For people BORN in the U.S., they (or the parents) apply for SSN with a U.S. birth certificate. I got my own, I was 9.
Aliens show some form of legal status from USCIS (formerly INS) either work authorized or not to get a SSN.
No, the State Department doesn't have the type of filing system that USCIS (DHS) uses. DOS deals with ALL USC's (current U.S. population is around 335 million living in the U.S. today. PLUS all the passports they've issued since they started keeping records would add up to more than a billion), so they don't bother.
DHS (USCIS is THE record keeper for A-files) has around 100 million A-files covering immigrants who have entered for just under the past 100 years (this includes folks who have naturalized). Still a huge amount of files and as you will learn, A-files are thick and only get thicker. The main repository is in a hollowed out mountain in Missouri. Most "active" files are spread out at the District/Field Offices and Service Centers around the country and in international offices.
Have you heard of E-Verify? It is the database developed and maintained by USCIS and incorporates data sharing with certain other government databases including SSA as part of it. SSA updates when a person naturalizes only when a person brings in proof of a change in status otherwise it does not automatically read what is in the USCIS database for status. But they will verify the proof shown with USCIS Verification Branch (USCIS employees look in the computer and tell SSA if the person's status has changed in USCIS records or not.) People who skip the N-600 may well be USC's but will have problems with SSA even with a passport. The datashare is one-way, SSA to USCIS's E-verify. E-verify is accessed by employers who only want to know ONE thing--work authorization, yes or no. E-verify starts with USCIS, then SSA, and only progresses from there IF it has to. IF E-verify goes further and gets conflicting info that is a tenative response telling the employer to tell the employee to go straighten things out. An LPR who derives USC and skips the N-600 will be OK'd to work becuase they show as an LPR and have a work authorized SSN. Thge sytem does not go any further so no conflict is know at that time---while still working.
For people BORN in the U.S., they (or the parents) apply for SSN with a U.S. birth certificate. I got my own, I was 9.
Aliens show some form of legal status from USCIS (formerly INS) either work authorized or not to get a SSN.
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I understand your point. She also applied for a passport card. If she were to lose her US passport abroad, would the passport card be sufficient proof of her status? Also, if she were to lose her passport, when she reapplies for a new one, wouldn't they have all of her information on file? And finally, in terms of Social Security (even though that's a long way down the road) if she did keep renewing her passport up until that age, that would be enough proof to qualify, correct?
If i were in your shoes i would not mind wasting $600/- and get a Certificate. It requires very little effort to get one now. GOK what will happen in the future.
You did mention that finding the father's naturalization certificate was tricky, right? After getting her passport, scan the data page and store the scan in your files. File the N-600, get her citizenship certificate, scan it, and store the scan in your files as well. It will be the best money you ever spent. Oh yeah, and use the passport and/or citizenship certificate to file a new SS-5 with the Social Security Administration, showing her to be a US citizen.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
If she loses it in Canada or Mexico, she could use the card to enter the US by land. Elsewhere, she could use the card to obtain a replacement passport through a consulate, or a Transportation Letter which can be used one time to enter the US.I understand your point. She also applied for a passport card. If she were to lose her US passport abroad, would the passport card be sufficient proof of her status?
Also, if she were to lose her passport, when she reapplies for a new one, wouldn't they have all of her information on file?
Not necessarily. Even when the passport is expired but not lost, she may have to show her parent's naturalization or birth certificate to renew it, if she doesn't have her own citizenship certificate. See what happened to someone who derived citizenship at birth through US citizen parents, and obtained a US passport but didn't have their own citizenship certificate:
http://www.ambassadorlondon.ca/uscitizenship.php
I had/have a US passport, and was able to travel. I also had/have a social security number, and am able to work. But when it came time to renew my passport to travel to China, I came up against problems. The US passport issuing agency questioned my citizenship. I sent in a letter, stating how long I had been in the US, that I had a social security number, and pay US taxes, and as I recall I sent my parents' birth certificates in as well. After this, I was re-issued another US passport, and thought that this meant I was officially recognized as a US citizen.
An expired US passport is not solid proof of US citizenship. Anyone whose passport is lost or is already expired when applying to renew or replace it is vulnerable to having their citizenship questioned, and may have to provide additional proof in the form of their own citizenship certificate or their parent's certificate(s).
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Ok, once she acquires a US passport through the DOS we will get her her own naturalization certificate to ensure adequate proof of citizenship in case of any problems. One last question: if we were to get married before she acquired a naturalization certificate, when I applied as the spouse of a citizen would her US passport be sufficient proof to land me a green card?