Non US Citizen voted and applied for N-400
- Thread starter Introuble2009
- Start date
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Maslouj would not be a citizen now if his voting was within the 5 year window. His case is different, as he voted in 2000.
The OP's voting was less than 5 years ago, so denial of the existing case is 99%, make that 99.9% guaranteed. With almost zero hope of approval, there is no point in continuing with the application. Better to withdraw before the interview and hope that USCIS forgets about the case.
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But what everyone is concerned about is deportation and for deportation purpose, this five years does not matter unless you can point out Maslouj's voting was done even before he got the GC (and he disclosed it during GC interview even I485 did not even ask for it) and USCIS had only 5 years to revoke it.
So still we do not know how USCIS work and can only guess and that means no one know what really can happen unless he tries it
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
He could have been deported. But because the voting was before the 5 year window, he had a realistic chance of getting approved. He took a risk to get the reward.
In this case, there is no hope of approval. It is basically risk without reward. So it is pointless to increase the risk by continuing with the case and going through the interview.
Department of Licensing is a Washington state's analogue of Department of Motor Vehicles in other states. I forgot that DOL also stands for the Department of Labour.
But deportation has no statute of limitation. It is hard for me to understand
USCIS can be that inconsistent on such important matter. Inconsistency can be expected but I don't buy it if difference can be that huge as deportation vs citizenship approval
No need to serve in the military to ameliorate this particular offense. What if he's blown to pieces while serving in Iraq? Did you consider how that is going to bolster his shredded body parts?
Al Southner: Your comments are extremely distasteful. "...bolster his shredded body parts" ???!!! What were you thinking?
Actually, my understanding is that in relation to voting (as distinct from claiming to be a U.S. citizen) the intent is irrelevant and it is irrelevant if the alien understood that he was breaking the law by voting. The mere fact of a non-citizen voting in a fedral election is a federal crime and makes the alien deportable. In particular, the "Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996" makes such voting by non-citizens a federal crime:
"§ 611. Voting by aliens
(a) It shall be unlawful for any alien to vote in any election
held solely or in part for the purpose of electing a candidate for
the office of President, Vice President, Presidential elector, Member
of the Senate, Member of the House of Representatives, Delegate
from the District of Columbia, or Resident Commissioner [...]
(b) Any person who violates this section shall be fined under
this title, imprisoned not more than one year, or both.’’.
And then later in the same act:
"(6) UNLAWFUL VOTERS.—Any alien who has voted in violation
of any Federal, State, or local constitutional provision,
statute, ordinance, or regulation is deportable.
(c) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section
shall apply to voting occurring before, on, or after the date of
the enactment of this Act."
The last sentence is a particularly nasty (and possibly unconstitutional) touch since it makes this law apply retroactively.
Anyway, the language of this law is very unforgiving and does not leave a lot of wiggle room.
However, it does need to be stressed that even if someone is deportable under the law and even if USCIS knows about it, it does not necessaril mean that the USCIS and ICE will start deportation proceedings against the alien. They may decide to do nothing, and may even approve an N-400 aplication, as maslouj's example shows. A great deal seems to depend on the discretion of the IO handling the case.
Maslouj made it twice. He got the GC with that problem and again got citizenship with that problem.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Voting by a noncitizen is not a mandatory deportable offense. If it happened outside the 5-year window, USCIS has discretion to approve the naturalization, or deny it without deportation, or deny with deportation. With discretion, there will be some inconsistency.
However, they are consistent about denying naturalization when the voting occurred within the 5-year window (assuming the voting was not a local election for which the LPR actually was eligible to vote).
I don't think there any law that say some deportable offense are mandatory deportable offenses and other deportable offenses are not mandatory deportable offenses. Laws just say certain offense are deportable. It is USCIS determine whether to deport or not. If USCIS want to deport anyone with a deportable offense, anyone who has ever failed to report AR 11 can be deported and honestly speaking
I guess more than half of immigrants at least once failed to do that. The law says eecuses can be made
but most people can only come up with an excuse that they do not know this AR-11 law but we
all know ignorance of law is not legal defenses
But I agree with your advice you gave to the OP in his particular case. He should
withdraw his application for now and re-apply later. and when he re-apply he should consult a lawyer settle his voter registration cancel etc.
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I believe this has happened. Every time DMV has asked me to register my answer was "NO, I am not a citizen" and my answer to if I want to be an organ donor was "Yes". I hope to God that they did not mix up my answers
. One more thing to worry about I guess . What happens if you, somehow, get registered to vote, but you never vote? I am sure the ramifications are not as bad as compared to the person actually voting, but still I believe it will be a hassle with the N400 application and delay the process.I believe this has happened. Every time DMV has asked me to register my answer was "NO, I am not a citizen" and my answer to if I want to be an organ donor was "Yes". I hope to God that they did not mix up my answers
Maybe USCIS needs to add following question, just to confuse people more:
Have you ever claimed to be an organ donor as a US citizen?
As for being added to the registration list and you never voting, you just have to show USCIS that you removed yourself from the list. Of course if you don't know that you have been added to the voter list , then you wouldn't disclose it as you can only disclose what you know at the time.
Issues
OP - I suggest you get a good Trial lawyer as well as an immigration lawyer. One lawyer to help you with your "fraud" and other to help you with your "immigration" Ignorance of law is not an excuse.
I thought I heard every possible issue. I guess not
1) Voting as non-citizen
2) My wife was convicted of "shop lifting" - Wow
3) I tried to cash bad checks (and OP claims he was merely trying to help..)
4) I got 6 tickets for using cell phone while driving...
5) I used "marijuana", got caught, etc
6) I had "side consulting" job and did not pay taxes - Really?
I feel for the rest who lead a normal life, good job and law abiding citizens and on this forum to get information on filing forms, processing dates, interview questions, etc. These are good people.
OP - I suggest you get a good Trial lawyer as well as an immigration lawyer. One lawyer to help you with your "fraud" and other to help you with your "immigration" Ignorance of law is not an excuse.
I thought I heard every possible issue. I guess not
1) Voting as non-citizen
2) My wife was convicted of "shop lifting" - Wow
3) I tried to cash bad checks (and OP claims he was merely trying to help..)
4) I got 6 tickets for using cell phone while driving...
5) I used "marijuana", got caught, etc
6) I had "side consulting" job and did not pay taxes - Really?
I feel for the rest who lead a normal life, good job and law abiding citizens and on this forum to get information on filing forms, processing dates, interview questions, etc. These are good people.
Al Southner
Registered Users (C)
Ok. I see you were really worked up over that issue. There is a reason why these wars continue while we eat and drink with no regards for the real causes to families across this country. See the carnage caused by war, do you think life is as simple as being concerned about a greencard?
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html#IRAQWARPIX
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Technically that's true, as the law allows the enforcement agencies to opt out of enforcing against an individual. A better word than "mandatory" would be "automatic". USCIS policies and procedures would automatically lead to initiating removal for something serious like armed robbery or murder, while permitting the officers to exercise discretion for less serious deportable offenses like voting.
However, the law and courts have classified some offenses as mandatory bars to naturalization, and USCIS does not have discretion to naturalize people who have done those things, even though they have discretion to decide not to pursue deportation.
Ok. I see you were really worked up over that issue. There is a reason why these wars continue while we eat and drink with no regards for the real causes to families across this country. See the carnage caused by war, do you think life is as simple as being concerned about a greencard?
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html#IRAQWARPIX
That link you shared is nothing but porn for violence. They are just terrible to watch. I know that that is reality but you've got to think twice about the types of people who get their mojo viewing such stuff. However, not electing to feast on gory stuff is not the same as burying your head in the sand; I don't buy that.
My point is this: the soldiers are just following orders. And often times they pay a heavy price for that. Besides being ghoulish, what exactly is your point?
One more thing is that many other offenses only make offender deportable if he is convicted, but voting can make one deporable even without being convicted. What we have seen here in this forum is no one has ever crminally charged for voting as a noncitizen.
I wonder if anyone really answer Yes to the question "have you ever commited a crime for which you were not arrested" and follow up
"Yes, I once stole $1000 worth of goods from Wal Mart 10 years ago". Do you think he will be get deported without criminal charge?
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I wonder what could happen if too many immigrants commits certain kind of harmless (no direct personal victim) but ye deportable offense. Would USCIS
have to forgive them otherwise they don't have resources and manpower to deport so many. Say if 2/3 of PRs have ever voted in the federal election, then USCIS would have no choice but ignore that. They could not deny 2/3 of citizenship application neither cpould they deport millions or even tens of millions of PRs.
I dont understand one thing, When someone become permanent resident and they receive the Welcome Guide in Mail or by hand why DONT THEY READ IT? you can not claim that I didnt know that a PR can not vote it clearly states in there.
There are also serious consequences for you as a permanent
resident if you:
• Lie to get immigration benefits for yourself or someone
else.
• Say you are a U.S. citizen if you are not.
• Vote in a federal election or in a local election open
only to U.S. citizens.
• Are a “habitual drunkard”—someone who is drunk
or someone who uses illegal drugs most of the time.
• Are married to more than one person at the same
time.
• Fail to support your family or to pay child or spousal
support as ordered.
• Are arrested for assaulting or harassing a family member,
including violating a protection order.This is called
domestic violence.
• Lie to get public benefits.
• Fail to file tax returns when required.
• Willfully fail to register for the Selective Service if you
are a male between the ages of 18 and 26.
There are also serious consequences for you as a permanent
resident if you:
• Lie to get immigration benefits for yourself or someone
else.
• Say you are a U.S. citizen if you are not.
• Vote in a federal election or in a local election open
only to U.S. citizens.
• Are a “habitual drunkard”—someone who is drunk
or someone who uses illegal drugs most of the time.
• Are married to more than one person at the same
time.
• Fail to support your family or to pay child or spousal
support as ordered.
• Are arrested for assaulting or harassing a family member,
including violating a protection order.This is called
domestic violence.
• Lie to get public benefits.
• Fail to file tax returns when required.
• Willfully fail to register for the Selective Service if you
are a male between the ages of 18 and 26.