Non RIR Discussion Only !

[cuaderno]

Vexlak:
You brought up a good point that *"there's should not be extra charge for the conversion, recruitment is part of the deal already"*. But when I sent my TR->RIR request last week, the first thing HR told me was I should be aware that I am the one not the company is responsible for the conversion cost (legal fee) around $1000. I will need to find out more info from my company attorney. But my bottom line is whatever it takes, I want to get my labor earlier.

I am a bid surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for the TR>>RIR. First and foremost, please realize that your lawyer will not be eager to work extra. Especially when he/she should not charge you more fees, because technically it is part of the certification process and should the BEC send a recruitment instructions, they have to do it anyway.

 

[labordrags]

Vexlak:
You brought up a good point that *"there's should not be extra charge for the conversion, recruitment is part of the deal already"*. But when I sent my TR->RIR request last week, the first thing HR told me was I should be aware that I am the one not the company is responsible for the conversion cost (legal fee) around $1000. I will need to find out more info from my company attorney. But my bottom line is whatever it takes, I want to get my labor earlier.

I am a bid surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for the TR>>RIR. First and foremost, please realize that your lawyer will not be eager to work extra. Especially when he/she should not charge you more fees, because technically it is part of the certification process and should the BEC send a recruitment instructions, they have to do it anyway.

It depends on each individual case and the senarios. Some company won't even pocket a dime from you, but some tend to ask for each cent spend to this process, even sending documents via UPS. So, you really need to check with your company. If you company feels like you are the part of the team, they may agreed in doing the conversion with or without paying anything, the only cost involve in this process is an attorney fee and the advertisement cost. Whatever you agreed on, since the coversion was never known before when you filed your labor, and now it is a new practice, one should consult with their Manager on how go by doing it. But even paying $1000 getting labor cleared, its really not a bad idea, as you will see big picture in the near future.

 

[bpc2001]

My understanding is that it would have a negative impact if your company has layoffs within the last 6 months of the advertisement process. Theoritically a company is required to contact each laid off person in last 6 months to make sure that they are not qualified for this position in order to establish recruitment pattern. Most employers won't do that. They would rather wait to 6 months after layoffs.

Hey Vexlax

Do you know if recent layoff in the company would affect
TR to RIR conversion? I guess labor was filed three years ago
and not sure which endpoint they would look at.


Thanks

Pk

 

[bharatpremi]

Converting TR to RIR, the only thing IF it gets lost would be the MONEY. The time you started turing your long awaited labor to RIR, BEC might send out a supervised recruitment instruction, then you have to halt your RIR and follow the BECs way of work. .... If they will deny the case, it would be much hard for them to fulfil their promise of eliminating backlog by September 30th, 2007.

I think, you are addressing here RIR conversion denial then yes you are right. But if you are talking about case denial (not certified but denied) then still it can be considered as processed.

 

[Taurean]

Anybody in my situation

Hi gurus,

Here's my situation.
__________________
First Application:
----------------------------
Category: EB3
Type: Regular (NON-RIR)
State: MI
Stuck In: DBEC
PD:11/xx/01
45 Days letter - Received and replied
ETA No: D-05139-25xxx
Case Status: In Process

Second Application:
-----------------------------
Category: EB3
Type: RIR
Csae Status: certified
PD: 10/xx/04
ETA No. D-05216-78xxx

Would you suggest that i wait for the non-RIR to get cleard first before applying I-140 so that the PD is in 2001 instead of 2004.

 

[migc202]

Applicable or Not?

Sorry to ask the basic Q on this new rule. But had to ask this as my Atty. says it's only applicable to cases that also have an RIR filed before RIR was shut down in March'05.

So, is it applicable to a Labor case just filed as TR? This is what I am confused about right now.

 

[MDwatch]

Sorry to ask the basic Q on this new rule. But had to ask this as my Atty. says it's only applicable to cases that also have an RIR filed before RIR was shut down in March'05.

So, is it applicable to a Labor case just filed as TR? This is what I am confused about right now.

Your attorney is an idiot .... This is applicable only to labor certifications filed before 3/28/05 in the regular (TR) category.

 

[dianasteve]

This is also what my attorney said in the beginning. But then I sent the DOL FAQ to him and told him thats not the case. He agreed. Educate the lawyer

Sorry to ask the basic Q on this new rule. But had to ask this as my Atty. says it's only applicable to cases that also have an RIR filed before RIR was shut down in March'05.

So, is it applicable to a Labor case just filed as TR? This is what I am confused about right now.

 

[migc202]

MDwatch & dianaseteve...Thanks.
This is after I sent the FAQs to the Atty.

Is there any other link of AILA etc. that could help me substantiate with Atty. (I did have the murthy link). Thanks in Advance.

 

[manwithnoname]

Hi gurus,

Here's my situation.
__________________
First Application:
----------------------------
Category: EB3
Type: Regular (NON-RIR)
State: MI
Stuck In: DBEC
PD:11/xx/01
45 Days letter - Received and replied
ETA No: D-05139-25xxx
Case Status: In Process

Second Application:
-----------------------------
Category: EB3
Type: RIR
Csae Status: certified
PD: 10/xx/04
ETA No. D-05216-78xxx

Would you suggest that i wait for the non-RIR to get cleared first before applying I-140 so that the PD is in 2001 instead of 2004.

I think, if 3-year H-1B extension is necessary then you should file I-140 ASAP. Since November 2001 EB3 PD is valuable, ask you lawyer to convert the existing TR case to RIR. This will speed up the case to some extent. See the current Murthy bulletin for case conversion: http://www.murthy.com/mb_pdf/101306_P.html

 

[BruceWillis]

Nice to know

Hi Vexlak,

Iam happy to know that somebody in the forum thinks exactly the way I think.

Our Term in the BEC Jail sentence is going to be over by September 2007. Now it is a matter of getting released sooner than that. Whatever the naysayers and the pessimists have us believe...... I strongly believe that BEC is begging for help in asking us to convert from TR -> RIR. Any Lawyer who can listen to this cry will send a request. All they need to do is send a decent ly worded request. Show proof for "pattern of recruitment" in the last six months. The BEC losers are just waiting for such requests to jump on it and approve our applications. Not because they love us, but because it is less work and they can count one more application as DONE.

The lawyers should know what to do. Nobody hires lawyers to follow every law in the book. We can read that ourselves. We hire them inorder to expedite what we want and still be on the right side of the law. Somebody should tell this to the lawyers

-Bruce

I am a bid surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for the TR>>RIR. First and foremost, please realize that your lawyer will not be eager to work extra. Especially when he/she should not charge you more fees, because technically it is part of the certification process and should the BEC send a recruitment instructions, they have to do it anyway. All those lawyers telling you that the conversion is a bad idea, should either come to this forum or read a bid more about this issue. From my experience, most of the lawyers know less then we all do here at this forum.
In my opinion, all the risks converting outweigh the negative parts.
1., The recruitment should be done in past six month not over six month. In other words, recruitment should not be older then six months. That means that if you advertise now, and in say two weeks again, hire an employment agency, it should be ( now that is a good question!) sufficient recruitment.
2., Suppose that you will have responses to the adds. How will the BEC know how many did you have? Unless they are conducting the recruitment, they have no idea. Read between the lines!
3., BEC is clearly under pressure and will expedite the RIR just as they did with the originally filed RIR’s. They have no time or desire to go to details. If you follow the RIR forum, very few cases had any questions nor were they scrutinized for every little detail.
4., If they indeed do not like you and consider your recruitment insufficient or good enough, BEC will keep you in the TR and conduct the recruitment.
5., BEC clearly invites us to convert and get the case processed. Why ignore it? It shows that you, or your employer is not interested in having you certified and that may only raise flags and cause delays.
These are my opinions. I am not a lawyer I am only educated member of this forum.
Please express you opinions.
Thank you!

 

[bharatpremi]

I am a bid surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for the TR>>RIR. First and foremost, please realize that your lawyer will not be eager to work extra. Especially when he/she should not charge you more fees, because technically it is part of the certification process and should the BEC send a recruitment instructions, they have to do it anyway. All those lawyers telling you that the conversion is a bad idea, should either come to this forum or read a bid more about this issue. From my experience, most of the lawyers know less then we all do here at this forum.
In my opinion, all the risks converting outweigh the negative parts.
1., The recruitment should be done in past six month not over six month. In other words, recruitment should not be older then six months. That means that if you advertise now, and in say two weeks again, hire an employment agency, it should be ( now that is a good question!) sufficient recruitment.
2., Suppose that you will have responses to the adds. How will the BEC know how many did you have? Unless they are conducting the recruitment, they have no idea. Read between the lines!
3., BEC is clearly under pressure and will expedite the RIR just as they did with the originally filed RIR’s. They have no time or desire to go to details. If you follow the RIR forum, very few cases had any questions nor were they scrutinized for every little detail.
4., If they indeed do not like you and consider your recruitment insufficient or good enough, BEC will keep you in the TR and conduct the recruitment.
5., BEC clearly invites us to convert and get the case processed. Why ignore it? It shows that you, or your employer is not interested in having you certified and that may only raise flags and cause delays.
These are my opinions. I am not a lawyer I am only educated member of this forum.
Please express you opinions.
Thank you!

Today if you want to send RIR conversion request you simply can not as you do not have "sufficient documentation" for "Recruiting efforts and results". For "Suffcient Documentation" you will have to go through advertisement process (At least 3 ads, one in one weekend - Sunday ad),internal web ad etc. wait for resumes to come in, wait for "Interviews and rejection of candidates" .. so all in all it would be at least 3 months from now (Oct-16-2006). So you can send the RIR conversion request in Mid January with "All Sufficient Documentation". Mostly, if your PD is on or before 2003 end, there would be more chances of BEC coming up with your job order before your RIR conversion request reaches to it but after you started to advertise for RIR conversion preparation. So these guys will just waste money, at least it seems to be that way to me. Guys having PD after the start of 2004 may take a chance for RIR conversion. Ofcourse I have considered here that BEC will follo FIFO on the basis of PD. If it is not then nothing can be debated here.

 

[isingh786]

Amend TR to RIR

Today if you want to send RIR conversion request you simply can not as you do not have "sufficient documentation" for "Recruiting efforts and results". For "Suffcient Documentation" you will have to go through advertisement process (At least 3 ads, one in one weekend - Sunday ad),internal web ad etc. wait for resumes to come in, wait for "Interviews and rejection of candidates" .. so all in all it would be at least 3 months from now (Oct-16-2006). So you can send the RIR conversion request in Mid January with "All Sufficient Documentation". Mostly, if your PD is on or before 2003 end, there would be more chances of BEC coming up with your job order before your RIR conversion request reaches to it but after you started to advertise for RIR conversion preparation. So these guys will just waste money, at least it seems to be that way to me. Guys having PD after the start of 2004 may take a chance for RIR conversion. Ofcourse I have considered here that BEC will follo FIFO on the basis of PD. If it is not then nothing can be debated here.


Hi Guys,

I have a EB3 Application NON RIR with 2001 PD and I was thinking of converting that to RIR. What do you guys think, will that be just waste of money or I can get benefit out of that...

I already spoke to my lawyer about amendment and he is ready to do that...just waiting for some clear guidelines..

Please suggest

 

[dianasteve]

Why are we concerned about FIFO rule and that the BEC is going to follow it so they will pickup my application within then next few months when they have not even started on the non RIR cases. My pd is sept 2001 and they are still in april 2001 for many many years. So I guest it is my best bet to convert to RIR as soon as possible. I cannot for one instance believe that they are going to get to my case in 3 months!!!

My attorney said 3 consecutive days in local news paper, 10 days posted in the company premises and website recruitment is enough and get him the results. I am going to wait for 1 month and sent it in by the end of november or so if everything goes well.

 

[labordrags]

Today if you want to send RIR conversion request you simply can not as you do not have "sufficient documentation" for "Recruiting efforts and results". For "Suffcient Documentation" you will have to go through advertisement process (At least 3 ads, one in one weekend - Sunday ad),internal web ad etc. wait for resumes to come in, wait for "Interviews and rejection of candidates" .. so all in all it would be at least 3 months from now (Oct-16-2006). So you can send the RIR conversion request in Mid January with "All Sufficient Documentation". Mostly, if your PD is on or before 2003 end, there would be more chances of BEC coming up with your job order before your RIR conversion request reaches to it but after you started to advertise for RIR conversion preparation. So these guys will just waste money, at least it seems to be that way to me. Guys having PD after the start of 2004 may take a chance for RIR conversion. Ofcourse I have considered here that BEC will follo FIFO on the basis of PD. If it is not then nothing can be debated here.

2 Sunday ad in a month apart, followed by 15 days wait of recruitment is sufficient evidence to show BEC of enough attempt in finding the right candidate. Not more than 45 days of effort, would get NON RIR folks out of this hell. Even you start your ad in the beginning of November, by the end of second week of December, you are ready to go.

 

[bharatpremi]

Why are we concerned about FIFO rule and that the BEC is going to follow it so they will pickup my application within then next few months when they have not even started on the non RIR cases. My pd is sept 2001 and they are still in april 2001 for many many years. So I guest it is my best bet to convert to RIR as soon as possible. I cannot for one instance believe that they are going to get to my case in 3 months!!!

My attorney said 3 consecutive days in local news paper, 10 days posted in the company premises and website recruitment is enough and get him the results. I am going to wait for 1 month and sent it in by the end of november or so if everything goes well.

As far as I know "AD for 3 consecutive days in local news paper" is TR requirement. RIR insists on Ad in Sunday paper at state or national level.. I may be wrong but that is what I am hearing since last 5 years for RIR..

What you have described is NON RIR AD requirement... RIR AD requirement, I think is totally different. Can more enlightened soul give us more light on this?

 

[labordrags]

As far as I know "AD for 3 consecutive days in local news paper" is TR requirement. RIR insists on Ad in Sunday paper at state or national level.. I may be wrong but that is what I am hearing since last 5 years for RIR..

What you have described is NON RIR AD requirement... RIR AD requirement, I think is totally different. Can more enlightened soul give us more light on this?

RIR
Filing applications Mail in for processing of Form ETA 750 application for alien employment certification and prevailing wage determination optional, with each SWA using its own form

Processing time Varies by region (e.g., about 25+ months in Region VI)

Involvement of SWA Prevailing wage determination and preliminary review

Period of recruitment Pattern of recruitment within 180 days of filing

Number of ads Pattern of recruitment - No minimum specified, but ultimately 2 became acceptable, if other recruitment efforts. Print ads required and increasingly DOL requesting at least 1 additional form of recruitment.

Special requirements Limited number of skill requirements accepted (e.g., computer language, operating system, etc.)

Alternative experience requirements Yes

Business necessity justifications Limited

Include job duties in ads Not required

Include employer name in ads Not required

Include wage in ads Not required

Include job site in ads Yes

Okay to require experience gained with predecessor employer or related company Limited

Ability to reject candidates unable to satisfactorily perform job offered Yes

Wage offer 5% of prevailing wage or higher

Revocation of certified applications

Impact of recent lay-offs Discretion of DOL

Results of recruitment Employer letter describing the recruitment effort and summarizing the results of recruitment, but without the reasons for each rejection

Include resumes of job applicants No. Retain for audit.

 

[roddy]

New job ad posting from DBEC

Hi all,

It's been a while since the last job ad posting from DBEC. The latest one is from 10/14/2006 for a heavy equipment operator.

 

[vexlak]

Your attorney is an idiot .... This is applicable only to labor certifications filed before 3/28/05 in the regular (TR) category.

This is exactly what I stated numerous times. DO NOT ALWAYS LISTEN WHAT YOUR ATTORNEY HAS TO SAY. Most of the lawyers have no clue (all respect to those who really do!) and simple statement from this forum will set them straight. Always consult or read this forum before you take any action. I will state that the most of the information that I ever got is from all of you, members of this forum. Thank you!

 

[vexlak]

Today if you want to send RIR conversion request you simply can not as you do not have "sufficient documentation" for "Recruiting efforts and results". For "Suffcient Documentation" you will have to go through advertisement process (At least 3 ads, one in one weekend - Sunday ad),internal web ad etc. wait for resumes to come in, wait for "Interviews and rejection of candidates" .. so all in all it would be at least 3 months from now (Oct-16-2006). So you can send the RIR conversion request in Mid January with "All Sufficient Documentation". Mostly, if your PD is on or before 2003 end, there would be more chances of BEC coming up with your job order before your RIR conversion request reaches to it but after you started to advertise for RIR conversion preparation. So these guys will just waste money, at least it seems to be that way to me. Guys having PD after the start of 2004 may take a chance for RIR conversion. Ofcourse I have considered here that BEC will follo FIFO on the basis of PD. If it is not then nothing can be debated here.

You may be correct. However, please consider that the major holidays are approaching and I am very skeptical that any, or very limited amount of TR will be processed in near future. Mainly because I believe that the BEC has no fast system how to process the TR. It appears that they mastered the RIR. That is why they are asking to convert. And with the piling number of conversions (including mine), the TR will be left in the dust. That is my theory but I may be wrong.