Non RIR Discussion Only !

GCkiTalash said:
http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pdf/backlog_faqs_10-06-06.pdf
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Great news! (at least something...)
Is it safe to assume that the PARM recruitment instructions should be followed in order to convert TR to RIR? I did not see any special instructions. Any opinions? :confused:
Anyone knows where are the conversion or the PERM instructions needed to convert listed?
I trust most of you more then I trust my lawyer. :eek: He is always amazed that I am the first to ask or suggest him something faster then he can. I would like to be equipped to avoid his mistakes. Thank you in advance for any input. :)
 
vexlak said:
Great news! (at least something...)
Is it safe to assume that the PARM recruitment instructions should be followed in order to convert TR to RIR? I did not see any special instructions. Any opinions? :confused:
Anyone knows where are the conversion or the PERM instructions needed to convert listed?
I trust most of you more then I trust my lawyer. :eek: He is always amazed that I am the first to ask or suggest him something faster then he can. I would like to be equipped to avoid his mistakes. Thank you in advance for any input. :)
Click to expand...

Found the info:
application filed Before must file under PERM
http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/perm.asp

Application before March 28, 2005 will do the regulation at the time of filing:
http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/faqs.asp#backlog
 
TR - RIR conversion

I suppose we all are waiting to see how this latest gimmick plays out in DOL's court while we chickens watch from outside. My understanding is DOL will continue theie slow TR for a while now, may be till december and wait for RIR conversion. They will perhaps come up with another notice 'strongly encouraging' employer to file for RIR conversion. At that point I'll know that these guys are damn serious about the flashing '12 months remaining' msg. Till then, relax.... there is retrogression demon waiting ahead...

EB3-MA-TR-June/04
45 days letter recvd/replied May 15th.

Planning to apply
EB2-PERM this november from same emplyer.
 
TO convert to RIR the recruitment process has to be done before 6 months requesting the converion. So I think it will take almost the same time as the TR case.

What is the supporting documentation required for a request for RIR conversion?
The supporting documentation required for conversion to RIR processing is the same as that required for an application initially filed under the RIR process, with the addition of a written request for conversion. Employers or their attorneys should ensure the request includes:
1) A written request for conversion;

2) Documentation demonstrating that a pattern of recruitment has been established within the six months preceding the date the conversion request is received by the BEC, and that any U.S. workers were rejected solely for lawful, job-related reasons. Documentation must provide a description of the recruitment process used and the results of the recruitment process;

3) Contact information regarding the application including an e-mail address where a reply to the RIR conversion request can be sent.
 
Within Six Months; not before six months

hingo said:
TO convert to RIR the recruitment process has to be done before 6 months requesting the converion. So I think it will take almost the same time as the TR case.

What is the supporting documentation required for a request for RIR conversion?
The supporting documentation required for conversion to RIR processing is the same as that required for an application initially filed under the RIR process, with the addition of a written request for conversion. Employers or their attorneys should ensure the request includes:
1) A written request for conversion;

2) Documentation demonstrating that a pattern of recruitment has been established within the six months preceding the date the conversion request is received by the BEC, and that any U.S. workers were rejected solely for lawful, job-related reasons. Documentation must provide a description of the recruitment process used and the results of the recruitment process;

3) Contact information regarding the application including an e-mail address where a reply to the RIR conversion request can be sent.
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I dont think its before six months. It is within six months of time frame. You can start the ad process today, and can apply within few weeks time frame, they wanted to know the recruitment being conducted, and unable to find the right candidate for the said position. This is my best understanding, of course you need to consult with your attorney for advise. But waiting for six months then apply would be significant decline for people to convert their cases, of which if denied as BEC will do their supervised recruitment which again would take substantiable amount of time.
 
Hingo,
You really should take back your wrong information or it could hurt some people who are already miserable.
As someone already pointed out, it is so clear that the recruiment ad must be done within 6 month as the request of conversion is submitted. Use common sense, how much use it will be for DOL to make decision based on ad result that must be more than 6 month old? Isn't it an insane idea?

hingo said:
TO convert to RIR the recruitment process has to be done before 6 months requesting the converion. So I think it will take almost the same time as the TR case.

What is the supporting documentation required for a request for RIR conversion?
The supporting documentation required for conversion to RIR processing is the same as that required for an application initially filed under the RIR process, with the addition of a written request for conversion. Employers or their attorneys should ensure the request includes:
1) A written request for conversion;

2) Documentation demonstrating that a pattern of recruitment has been established within the six months preceding the date the conversion request is received by the BEC, and that any U.S. workers were rejected solely for lawful, job-related reasons. Documentation must provide a description of the recruitment process used and the results of the recruitment process;

3) Contact information regarding the application including an e-mail address where a reply to the RIR conversion request can be sent.
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PERM Vs RIR

Labordrags is right. I can recall what the procedure was for recruitment before BEC came into existence. You were supposed to place an AD in a sunday newspaper, I think on two (plus or minus) consecutive sundays and then wait for 2 weeks after that and then submit your application along with the newspaper cut-outs. So waiting for 6 months is baseless claim. You NEED NOT wait for 6 months. One month of recruitment efforts starting today (or whenever you decide to convert) should be more than sufficient.

OK now my question...why would one convert to RIR if there is clear provision for converting your case to PERM (of course still maintain your priority date). This option has been around for a long time now. Why suddenly an uproar with the advent of "converting to RIR" option? Does PERM require lot of recruitment efforts? Is PERM more stringent than RIR. I understand PERM procedure takes 2 weeks to complete after it is filed. Why go with RIR? ANy thoughts gurus?

I am NJ non-RIR PD 2/2003.

Thanks.


labordrags said:
I dont think its before six months. It is within six months of time frame. You can start the ad process today, and can apply within few weeks time frame, they wanted to know the recruitment being conducted, and unable to find the right candidate for the said position. This is my best understanding, of course you need to consult with your attorney for advise. But waiting for six months then apply would be significant decline for people to convert their cases, of which if denied as BEC will do their supervised recruitment which again would take substantiable amount of time.
Click to expand...
 
shanpai said:
Labordrags is right. I can recall what the procedure was for recruitment before BEC came into existence. You were supposed to place an AD in a sunday newspaper, I think on two (plus or minus) consecutive sundays and then wait for 2 weeks after that and then submit your application along with the newspaper cut-outs. So waiting for 6 months is baseless claim. You NEED NOT wait for 6 months. One month of recruitment efforts starting today (or whenever you decide to convert) should be more than sufficient.

OK now my question...why would one convert to RIR if there is clear provision for converting your case to PERM (of course still maintain your priority date). This option has been around for a long time now. Why suddenly an uproar with the advent of "converting to RIR" option? Does PERM require lot of recruitment efforts? Is PERM more stringent than RIR. I understand PERM procedure takes 2 weeks to complete after it is filed. Why go with RIR? ANy thoughts gurus?

I am NJ non-RIR PD 2/2003.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
This is how the process works in coversion: or when someone wishes to file the RIR application:

In RIR, the employer has to show the newspaper ads and company website ad "any time" which is not older than six months. You can ask your compnay to run the ad in Sunday paper, lets say on 15th October. And they will again publish the second ad on November 19th. Once the 2nd phase of ad is done, wait till End of November, and you are ready to file RIR in December 2006.

For PERM, if the application get denied, you will lose your PD. Also once the ad is done, you have to wait for 30 days. Also you need to ask for the PWD, which is vaild only for 90 days. If it goes in audit, then you have the wait forever. You need to provide the 100% prevaling wage in PERM. I think RIR is the best option than the PERM.
 
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Oh-Law Firm answered here:

10/06/2006: Consequences of RIR Conversion Request

* The decision of RIR eligibility by the BEC will result in the following consequences:
o If approved, the case will move to the RIR queue per the priority date, and not the decision date. Therefore, the cases will be processed fairly quickly.
o If RIR eligibility is denied, the case will remain in the TR queue. Besides, the alien beneficiary will not lose the priority date. Remember that this rule is limited to the situation where the application is denied on RIR eligibility issues and not other substantive issues.
* All in all, risks of denial of RIR conversion request appear to be almost none or limited, unlike the PERM conversation case where the denial will result in loss of priority date and loss of both PERM and BEC cases.
* For details, read RIR Conversion FAQ.

10/06/2006: Reasons for Filing RIR Conversion Request ASAP

* There is no cut-off date for filing conversion request, but for a number of reasons, the eligible applicants should file it as soon as possible.
o Once BEC starts recruitment process, the case will not be eligible for conversion. Since the BEC is not going to entertain the request for delay of recruitment process, time will be of essence to take advantage of the conversion.
o Conversion request will be processed first-in first-out basis.
* For details, read RIR Conversion FAQ.



shanpai said:
Labordrags is right. I can recall what the procedure was for recruitment before BEC came into existence. You were supposed to place an AD in a sunday newspaper, I think on two (plus or minus) consecutive sundays and then wait for 2 weeks after that and then submit your application along with the newspaper cut-outs. So waiting for 6 months is baseless claim. You NEED NOT wait for 6 months. One month of recruitment efforts starting today (or whenever you decide to convert) should be more than sufficient.

OK now my question...why would one convert to RIR if there is clear provision for converting your case to PERM (of course still maintain your priority date). This option has been around for a long time now. Why suddenly an uproar with the advent of "converting to RIR" option? Does PERM require lot of recruitment efforts? Is PERM more stringent than RIR. I understand PERM procedure takes 2 weeks to complete after it is filed. Why go with RIR? ANy thoughts gurus?

I am NJ non-RIR PD 2/2003.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
labordrags said:
This is how the process works in coversion: or when someone wishes to file the RIR application:

In RIR, the employer has to show the newspaper ads and company website ad "any time" which is not older than six months. You can ask your compnay to run the ad in Sunday paper, lets say on 15th October. And they will again publish the second ad on November 19th. Once the 2nd phase of ad is done, wait till End of November, and you are ready to file RIR in December 2006.

You can also use a head hunter or an employment agent. The only problem is that to get the RIR you have to demonstrate “adequate recruitment effort”. What does that constitute? What is sufficient and what is not? How would DOL know if someone responded on not? Perhaps someone that went through it may know.

For PERM, if the application get denied, you will lose your PD. Also once the ad is done, you have to wait for 30 days. Also you need to ask for the PWD, which is vaild only for 90 days. If it goes in audit, then you have the wait forever. You need to provide the 100% prevaling wage in PERM. I think RIR is the best option than the PERM.
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I am not sure about this one: The PERM started on or around March 28, 2005. Thtat is also the cutoff date for TR>>RIR conversion. If you convert from TR to PERM, you will lose your PD date for sure. However your PD will remin the same should you convert the pre 3/8/05 TR>>RIR. The good thing is that if they do not like your RIR, you still have the TR to go with. The bad, it may take 150 years becasue you will be at the end.

In general, I am not sure why some of our members are so skeptical. I understand the DOL/BEC problems etc, yet I am sure that after realization that it is virtually impossible to process all remaining TR cases, they giving us a chance to have our case certified after the conversion. The only draw back is that if you wait to long and they already started your TR processing (as they started to post some jobs on the web), you RIR conversion will be not accepted and I am not sure if they will accept the adds that you your employer paid for.
 
My 2 cents. "error while processing" should have nothing to do with your status. it's system problem. Please clear your cache and try again. Sometimes I got this problem. Then after I clear all the cache in browser, it works.


kanke said:
The online checking has been giving "error while processing" for the last one week.
Almost 4 weeks before my attorney had send a fax requesting to correct my application.My case had gone to the regional (before going to BEC) after the recruitment in 04.But BEC had entered it as State. Lat Monday,BEC said it still shows source as State.I guess they have not entered the information of the Fax.
Any one can shed some light into my problem.
My case is TR with a PD of November2001.
Thanks
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kanke said:
The online checking has been giving "error while processing" for the last one week.
Almost 4 weeks before my attorney had send a fax requesting to correct my application.My case had gone to the regional (before going to BEC) after the recruitment in 04.But BEC had entered it as State. Lat Monday,BEC said it still shows source as State.I guess they have not entered the information of the Fax.
Any one can shed some light into my problem.
My case is TR with a PD of November2001.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi, This is just system issue and nothing to do with your case. I got that a lot and then it now shows correctly. So dont worry about it.


Adding my case to this tracker.


Dallas BEC
Priority date: 03/2003
RIR/TR: non-RIR
45 days letter received: 04/2006
D-05221-96xxx
 
This is BULL

jack_b_uta said:
I asked my lawyer about the is and his reply was "If we convert to RIR we wont be able to retain the priority date". Is this true or bull

JACK
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U will not lose your PD with RIR conversion. Read the FAQ posted bu DOL about this. I think others in this discussion have provided links to that page.
 
My attorney said to ask employer to start recruitment.

Is this a good idea to start now.

Can someone provide me a good link for recruitment instructions.

thanks
 
Spoke with my attorney today. He mentioned it is good idea to convert to RIR. He told he will study little more and get to work by next monday.
 
The ONLY bad thing I can see while doing the coversion would be, when you are running newspaper ad for the conversion, what if BEC sends out supervised recruitment, then you have to abandon the RIR conversion and follow the BEC instruction, where BEC in FAQ has stated that once the BEC sends out recruitment instruction Employer cannot pursue the conversion route.
 
RIR Conversion

Hi,
I talked to my lawyer as you said that we can run 2 ads in a month's differece and then apply for the conversion request but he told me that he already talked to the DOL people and nobody is sure whether the period should be or should not be six months.so I am confused. My PD id April 2001
Pl. help me out guys
 
gneerajg,
My suggestion will be to hand on as your p.d is April 2001
What is your ETA number that should give an idea where you are my guess is must be at the top of processing.
I just received my 8 year extension and also Candian Permanent Card, I am going to wait for some more time before crossing over.
 
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