Mentioning traffic violation??

B

bkhote

Registered Users (C)
After reading advice here, I mentioned a speeding violation of 200$ on
my N-400. Now I got a letter ( yellow) from USCIS saying that I mentioned of arrest ( I didnt) so I have to get the original records now at the interview.

All I mentioned that I was Cited for speeding violation and a fine of 200$ was paid.

I got a driving records just in case.

I would really like to hear from those who got ticket and did not mentioned.
I mean , Is is really required to be mentioned?
 
bkhote said:
After reading advice here, I mentioned a speeding violation of 200$ on
my N-400. Now I got a letter ( yellow) from USCIS saying that I mentioned of arrest ( I didnt) so I have to get the original records now at the interview.

All I mentioned that I was Cited for speeding violation and a fine of 200$ was paid.

I got a driving records just in case.

I would really like to hear from those who got ticket and did not mentioned.
I mean , Is is really required to be mentioned?
Click to expand...

Now you mentioned it so get a court disposition if asked. I also mentioned mine just to be on the safe side. People say don't mention it but its up to you.
 
wantmygcnow,
Where/how to get a court disposition?
I got a driving record. I also have a bank receipt for the cashed check that
I sent as a fine.

Thanks
BK
 
bkhote said:
After reading advice here, I mentioned a speeding violation of 200$ on
my N-400. Now I got a letter ( yellow) from USCIS saying that I mentioned of arrest ( I didnt) so I have to get the original records now at the interview.

All I mentioned that I was Cited for speeding violation and a fine of 200$ was paid.

I got a driving records just in case.

I would really like to hear from those who got ticket and did not mentioned.
I mean , Is is really required to be mentioned?
Click to expand...

The yellow letter is issued by NBC. I am 99% sure for each Yes on each
Question they have standard template and they just use it. So details does not matter. In other words, yellow letter can not differencetiate between
a traffic ticket and a serious felony. There is no clear defnition of arrest. Arrest can inlude pull over by cop

So don't worry about it. If you have the court doc or can get them easily, then get them. Otherwise do not bother. Most likely during yoru interview
theIO will not ask to see your docs about traffic even if you offer them
 
bkhote said:
I would really like to hear from those who got ticket and did not mentioned.
I mean , Is is really required to be mentioned?
Click to expand...

I didn't mention my traffic tickets on the N-400. After reading this forum, I collected proof of payment for as many as I could and brought them to the interview. I decided to disclose them, but only if the IO specifically asked if I've ever had any traffic tickets. The IO only asked if I've ever been arrested, so I truthfully answered "NO". As you can see, I've been a citizen for over a year.
 
Vorpal said:
I didn't mention my traffic tickets on the N-400. After reading this forum, I collected proof of payment for as many as I could and brought them to the interview. I decided to disclose them, but only if the IO specifically asked if I've ever had any traffic tickets. The IO only asked if I've ever been arrested, so I truthfully answered "NO". As you can see, I've been a citizen for over a year.
Click to expand...

Hindsight is 20/20 because you are a citizen..however people who have yet to be interviewed are nervous about many things because of the "big brother" mentality of the USCIS...So I feel that you should list it just to be safe and not be caught with some USCIS technical details to be denied.
 
I agree with wantmygcnow. Makes perfect sense to disclose it rather than get sucked into technical /legal details. And most imp. every case , DO and Jurisdiction is different, so to assume that one persons situations apply to another are incorrect. I'd disclose it just for peace of mind
 
wantmygcnow said:
Hindsight is 20/20 because you are a citizen..however people who have yet to be interviewed are nervous about many things because of the "big brother" mentality of the USCIS...So I feel that you should list it just to be safe and not be caught with some USCIS technical details to be denied.
Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing with you, especially since there is no uniformity with USCIS procedures. Speaking of which, if you haven't heard of what happened to nyc_newbie, look him up on this forum. He disclosed a couple of speeding tickets on his N-400, brought proof of payment, and had his application denied. The IO decided that 2 speeding tickets in 4 years show a pattern of poor moral character, although it has been decided in several court cases that traffic tickets do not constitute poor moral character. nyc_newbie appealed (which cost him several thousand dollars and over a year of his time), had the decision overturned on appeal, and will be taking his oath this Friday. Keep in mind that whether or not you decide to disclose minor traffic tickets, there's always a risk of running into an IO like the one nyc_newbie had the misfortune of meeting.
 
I'd agree with Vorpal that you might get into a bad situation like nyc_newbie but you may get into a worse situation like not disclosing and USCIS using the misrepresentation of facts to deny the n-400 which will be hard to overturn even in a federal court. The choice to disclose is a personal one and I chose to disclose it rather than hide it. I didnt want to give any reason to USCIS to deny my app.

for nyc_newbie the worst case was that he had to appeal with 600$ and wait another 6 months but look at the other scenario a) dont disclose it b) IO denies it for misrepresentation c) federal court also sides with USCIS d) finally never become USC

Traffic tickets are never a cause for denial , it can delay it if you dont have court dispositions or proof of payment but it can never be used for denial . On the other hand if you answer no and dont disclose tickets to "Have you ever been cited , arrested ... " , you might get an anal IO who could deny it based on misrepresentation and moral character issue.

folks can chose their own risk :)
 
pintoo12333 said:
for nyc_newbie the worst case was that he had to appeal with 600$ and wait another 6 months but look at the other scenario a) dont disclose it b) IO denies it for misrepresentation c) federal court also sides with USCIS d) finally never become USC
Click to expand...

Other than $600, he also had to pay several thousand dollars to retain an attorney. The appeal, by the way, took 18 months. Check your facts please.

As far as having a case denied for not disclosing traffic tickets, would you happen to have an example of a case that was denied for not disclosing simple traffic violations? Don't post cases that involved driving with suspended licenses. All I'd like to see is ONE case that was denied for non-disclosure of minor traffic tickets.
 
Vorpal

I am sorry , I dont have a case where the case was denied for not disclosing the tickets (especially traffic tickets). You win on the argument and I concede. But there are thousands of cases and enough case law where the information was not disclosed on the form (based on legal interpretation) and it was denied for misrepresentation and poor moral character because it wass not disclosed. Again, Vorpal my apologies to you , you have more knwoledge than me and I am still learning.

I have said this earlier , a lawyer's interpretation of "have you ever been cited or detained by law enforcement ...." implies disclosing traffic citations . I spoke with atleast 4 lawyers on this and they all advised me that better to dsiclose since the worst case is like you mentioned 18 months + lawyers costs (my aplogies I didnt have the facts for nyc) , the other scenario is much worse i.e. get denied all the way to federal courts and I can prove it that misrepresentation with USCIS is much bigger (irrespective of what is not being disclose)


I hope you see what I am saying. And I will again emphasize that it is a personal choice. I am not advising anyone with one option or the other

thanks again and enjoy ur day
 
Vorpal said:
Other than $600, he also had to pay several thousand dollars to retain an attorney. The appeal, by the way, took 18 months. Check your facts please.

As far as having a case denied for not disclosing traffic tickets, would you happen to have an example of a case that was denied for not disclosing simple traffic violations? Don't post cases that involved driving with suspended licenses. All I'd like to see is ONE case that was denied for non-disclosure of minor traffic tickets.
Click to expand...


Vorpal, no one has any examples but we all dont want to become examples of First or second cases of being denied for Misrepresentation.

The point is, USCIS is not clear in the N400 about traffic violations & if that leaves them some wiggle room to deny someone who didnt report it..its best to report it. Its not black & white! like in the I-485 which says "excluding traffic violations"
 
Thank you wantmygcnow, I think you get the point. I was scared to death just like you because I had some traffic tickets but my IO was good and said you were honest and it not an issue it all. He didnt even ask for the proof (even though I carried it ) .

Best of luck to all , waiting to finish this long journey
 
Pintoo is at it again :D

On a serious note, there should be a sticky about this yellow letter. People don't try to use a search option on the forum, and a new '"yellow letter" thread periodically pops-up once in a while. These threads almost always end up with heated arguments "to disclose" or "not to disclose" :)
 
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I am not sure condascending behavior is called for just becasue the argument cant be won on merits. Either way apologies to koing and Vorpal who have more knowledge than me and I am sure have helped millions of people with their precious advise
 
wantmygcnow said:
Vorpal, no one has any examples but we all dont want to become examples of First or second cases of being denied for Misrepresentation.

The point is, USCIS is not clear in the N400 about traffic violations & if that leaves them some wiggle room to deny someone who didnt report it..its best to report it. Its not black & white! like in the I-485 which says "excluding traffic violations"
Click to expand...

If you take a look at the original post, the OP has already disclosed traffic tickets and wanted to hear from people who haven't; therefore, I replied with my experience. If you choose to disclose traffic tickets, go right ahead. In my case, I am sure glad that I didn't. Your mileage may vary.
 
wantmygcnow said:
Once I pass my interview..I will ask the officer what is the norm?...Straight from the horses mouth!!!
Click to expand...

You won't be the first one. Some officers said yes, others said no. Again, there is no standard procedure of dealing with traffic tickets.
 
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