May 1st illegal immigrants are going to shutdown US

[guldukan]

Thank you.
Juan

Juan,

I am sorry if gave you an impression that I endorse your views, because I am not,

 

[Jackolantern]

Juan, you very brave to speak up here. You are like a hen in a fox's den, and the foxes are getting hungrier and hungrier.

Because of illegal aliens who applied for green cards under the 245i legislation, others here who have been in the process legally from the beginning are facing additional years of waiting. If millions of illegal aliens are allowed to apply for green cards or even temporary work permits, the expectation is that they will clog the system so much that it will take forever for those currently in the queue to be processed.

I don't have a problem with you getting a green card; I only have a problem if it comes at the expense of myself and other people already waiting for years in the legal process. And the way the Immigration department has worked in the past, allowing illegal workers to gain legal status will slow things down for people who have been waiting legally.

 

[Call me Shrek]

we cannot get a financial aid from the government.
Juan

And where did you get the idea that you (or anyone else) are entitled to a financial aid? What makes you think that you can go to college and make ME (yes, me, as I am paying taxes that support financial aid) pay for it? It's this entitlement mentality (Gimme gimme gimme!) that fucked this country up. Mind you, a whole lot more common among the native-born trash, but when an immigrant starts spouting this kind of crap, that REALLY makes me wanna puke...

 

[atlfp]

I don't think you will gain much support here

Hi Juan,

Most people in this forum came here legally and their life/career are being greatly affected by 245i. So in a way you guys messed us up. Now that when the Congress works on the bill, the non controversial part is again being put into limbo states because of the controversial part, so here you might just mess us up again.

I am not saying that nobody feels your pain, also there is no argument that most of you are harding working decent people. However the climate here is that if you go too far to demand what you want (and may well deserve), somebody else gets hurt.

Hope you understand that.

Thank you. Yes, I do not want to stay illegal. I want to be able to walk down the street without fear. I worked very hard to learn English and I do not cause trouble here. I also think my other friends are not correct when they waive the flag of Mexico at the march. I bring an American flag, and I love this country.

My country is poor. In my town, I cannot make money like I do here. I am sure you have good education from where you are from, and it helps you stay here. I never went to college and learn computer from the library class. I learned English at the local school. I want to get a visa like you but I cannot.

You cannot compare two countries. My country and this country are different. This is my new country, and I want to stay. I want to get citizenship.

Juan

 

[kamrans]

No point to support 245(i) people

I think most of us dont have any problem with 245(i) except that they are using the quote assigned for the legal immigration.
Within a quota of 140,000 annually if I see 350000 people come before me then I do have problem. Legal and illegal immigration cannot be compared in any respect. Its a long debate and I dont want to get into it.
Employment based provisions are in almost all bills. Nobody is against it even Peter King from New york but they are not passing it as a separate bill.
I still dont understand why its a part of illegal immigration.
We all now know that it was a mistake from Clinton administration that without any separate quota they approved 245(i) legislation and now we are totally screwed.
Someone needs to clear this mess......

Hi Juan,

Most people in this forum came here legally and their life/career are being greatly affected by 245i. So in a way you guys messed us up. Now that when the Congress works on the bill, the non controversial part is again being put into limbo states because of the controversial part, so here you might just mess us up again.

I am not saying that nobody feels your pain, also there is no argument that most of you are harding working decent people. However the climate here is that if you go too far to demand what you want (and may well deserve), somebody else gets hurt.

Hope you understand that.

 

[atlfp]

Not having a separate bill might be dirty politics

By mixing something of 30% chance and something of 90% chance together, one can get a total of 60% chance (or just 51%) and get the controversial part passed.

I think most of us dont have any problem with 245(i) except that they are using the quote assigned for the legal immigration.
Within a quota of 140,000 annually if I see 350000 people come before me then I do have problem. Legal and illegal immigration cannot be compared in any respect. Its a long debate and I dont want to get into it.
Employment based provisions are in almost all bills. Nobody is against it even Peter King from New york but they are not passing it as a separate bill.
I still dont understand why its a part of illegal immigration.
We all now know that it was a mistake from Clinton administration that without any separate quota they approved 245(i) legislation and now we are totally screwed.
Someone needs to clear this mess......

 

[saras76]

Legal immigrants ..

By mixing something of 30% chance and something of 90% chance together, one can get a total of 60% chance (or just 51%) and get the controversial part passed.

Guys,

Lets wake up and face reality. The only reason our legal provisions are even being considered is because of the 11 million illegal aliens problem. If there were no illegal immigrants here then there would never be ANY immigration bill. Its really sad but its the truth. Lawmakers do not care if it takes people 10 years or more to gain legal residency. Everything we hear is lip service. The longer we are in the "legal" queque, the better it is for them. Every lawmaker knows this and that is why a bill for legal immigrants will NEVER see the light of day. For now lets just hope that we get some leftovers from an illegal alien bill. If this bill fails then we will have to wait for the next illegal aliens bill. Thats the realitic picture ..

regards,

saras

 

[Jackolantern]

Guys,

Lets wake up and face reality. The only reason our legal provisions are even being considered is because of the 11 million illegal aliens problem. If there were no illegal immigrants here then there would never be ANY immigration bill.

You have a point, but if it wasn't for the illegal immigrants and the 245i legislation, most of us who have been waiting 3+ years would have had our green cards already and there wouldn't be a great need for an immigration bill now.

 

[saras76]

Illegals have the upper hand ..

You have a point, but if it wasn't for the illegal immigrants and the 245i legislation, most of us who have been waiting 3+ years would have had our green cards already and there wouldn't be a great need for an immigration bill now.

jack,

You are right. Legals first get screwed over by illegal 245i's and will get screwed over more by amnesty to 11 million illegals. This only adds more credibility to the fact that all policies (grant of 245i and now this new bill) are geared purely towards illegals. Legals are an after thought. When policies are passed lawmakers do not think about the reprecussions on legal immigrants. They are only worried about either pleasing the illegals (hispanic vote bank) or pleasing their own constituents by seeming tough on immigration. The pligt of legals is never discussed. There is no political motivation for this. This is the only reason I feel that no pro legal immigration force can solve our problems. The only way our problems will get solved is if lawmakers pass our provisions along with a bill meant mostly for illegals. If not this one then one in the future. I am convinced of this and hence am hoping that some bill with our provisions does get passed. I am past the phase of thinking about the main aim of the bill. The main of every bill will deal will illegals. We legals better get used to it. Its in our best interest.

regards,

saras

 

[saras76]

Interesting ..

unitednations,

You make very interesting points but they are far fetched. Forget about the GC, going by your arguement we are all criminals. No one can follow every damn law out there. This pertains to very day life. Your arguement is rather extreme. None of us (including you) even know all the laws. If every country started enforcing all the laws then there would be complete chaos. You cannot use this arguement to convince us that we legals are actually illegals oursevles. If the government chooses to enforce all the laws and crackdown on us legals because we have broken some idiotic law then they should do it. Do you think this will happen? NEVER. The govt is concerned about major breaches of the law. Every sane person knows that not every law can be enforced.

Personally I do not consider myself better than an illegal alien. They broke a bigger much visible law and are in the limelight. I am sure I broke some laws to but they are insignificant and hence I am not in the limelight. Infact its better to do what the so called "illegals" do becase they are atleast getting attention. We so called legals are supposedly following most of the laws and look what we are getting. We should all have been illegals and come to you for ways to dupe the USCIS and get our GCs faster.

You of all people should know that thousands upon thousands of laws have been created for the govts convenience. Depending on the political and economic climate goverments choose to enforce certain laws and ignore others. However there are certain universal criminal and civil laws that cannot be ignored. That is the benchmark between criminals and non-criminals. We cannot categorize everyone as criminals for not having followed all the laws that the govt has passed.

regards,

saras76

 

[mummiezed]

UnitedNation's legal illiteracy?

United Nations:

Are you talking about the law in Bangalore or on another planet? I'm pretty sure the US government enforces the laws of the USA but I have no idea if it enforces the indian or extra-terrestrial codes.

The fifth Amendment of the US constitution guarantees no person (not even aliens in the USA) shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life liberty, or property, without due process of law. If there is not record to prove one to be a criminal, why do you assume a many legal aliens filing I485 ever had committed a crime? And your assumption of guilt directly contradict the assumption of innocence stipulated in the 5th Amendment.

Remember Bill Clinton committed perjury about Monica? John Kerry was a treason by the US constitution yet still became a candidate for US presidency?

If you believe many GC seekers have broken the law, why do you name some in addition to yourself? BTW, your statement suggests you want to take the amnesty vehicle this time - in no way could you persuade ANY decent person on this forum.

 

[mummiezed]

Oil company Shell is sponsoring H1b and GC

Chevron Texaco seem to be doing the same thing.
Oh, these "traditional companies" are sponsoring Green Cards. Why don't you smart UnitedNation join shell?

 

[Jackolantern]

If you want to take things to an extreme, then every living breathing adult who isn't in a coma is a criminal, including all US citizens.

So since everybody is a criminal anyway, we should just ask the authorities to release all prisoners and stop arresting murderers, rapists, and burglars, right? Or ask them to lock up everybody in society (including the police and judges who must have violated the law sometime somewhere)?

I am not saying that they should deport all illegal immigrants or lock them up or anything like that. I know they are an important part of the economy; the apartment I live in probably was built by some of them and the food I eat grown and harvested by some of them. It is stupid that the system was not set up to allow them in legally and gradually over the past 2 or 3 decades. But all I am saying is don't let them screw things up for those who have been waiting in the legal line for years.

 

[saras76]

Legal and illegal immigration ...

Maybe, I took this in the wrong direction or the meaning didn't come out the correct way.

It looks like the pressure the undocumented workers are putting on the government is starting to backfire on them.

We all think we are doing things the correct way. Many of the undocumented workers aren't just people who crossed the border. They come from all walks of life; came across the border; overstayed their visas, inadvertenly overstayed; employer didn't file h-1. There is a whole mixed bag of people in this.

From what I am seeing; it looks like we the "legals" are trying to distance ourselves and educate our neighbors, politicians, etc. that we are different and we should be taken care of first. We are afraid that if there is a plan to legalize whether it is a guest worker program where they have to leave after a certain point and then come back or they get citizenship after a certain point of time; then it will cause more delays for us from uscis point of view because of the abundance of work and maybe even a standstill and the increased levels of checks.

However, keep in mind that we have been trying to do things the right way but we can just as easily fall into the same trap and get out of status and our thought process may not be the same as it is.

With regards to the constitution. It is a basic fact that many of the questions we are asked at consular interviews, uscis forms are generally not verifiable. However, it is used by uscis, government agencies later if we fall under the miscroscope and they will start delving into our immigration forms to see inconsistencies or they start trying to verify the information. Best example is when they started deporting peole after 9/11 who didn't do address changes on their ar-11, on their advance paroles specified a different country then the one they actually went to.

With regards to me breaking the law; I stole a candy bar when I was nine years old, hit a parked car without leaving a note on the windshield, used my neighbors wireless signal, didn't renew my car insurance on time and knowingly drove without it;

jackolantern, your point is well taken. However, the undocumented is the big issue here. I am afraid that whatever controls uscis puts on them to catch them or scrutinize their applications will impact everyone.

When I try to trace uscis behaviour and scrutiny of immigration; i traced it to 245i labors and terrorism. All the denials for ability to pay were really targeted at parking lots, gas stations, convenience stores that filed labors for all the 245i's. However, they couldn't pick and choose who they wanted to subject the scrutiny to. They started to scrutinize the "non 245i" labors in the same way and many people got denied who had legitimate cases because uscis couldn't treat the two differently.

Whether we like it or not; i think we are married with the undocumented workers

unitednations,

Your last sentence sums up this whole discussion. Like it or not, legal immigration is completely tied up with illegal immigration. A person can go from one group to another within a span of a few days. All it takes is for law to change or someone to make an innocent mistake and their status moves between the two categories.

I agree that we legals will not win by distancing ourselves from illegals. We might not like it but we are just as much part of the problem as they are and it can only be addressed with a comprehensive bill. Needless to say a comprehensive bill will have more provisions for illegal immigrants and a few for us. I would be happy with that for now.


regards,

saras76

 

[Bella Blues]

Nothing to gain from legals?

There was a comment on the first page that the politicians realistically have nothing to gain from legal residents/immigrants because we already pay our taxes and etc.

Well, the population of the United States is 298,444,215 (July 2006 est.) minus the 11,000,000 illegal immigrants, that's 287,444,215 legal residents (immigrants and natives) who can counter protest and show the government who really moves the economy.

 

[neocor]

There was a comment on the first page that the politicians realistically have nothing to gain from legal residents/immigrants because we already pay our taxes and etc.

Well, the population of the United States is 298,444,215 (July 2006 est.) minus the 11,000,000 illegal immigrants, that's 287,444,215 legal residents (immigrants and natives) who can counter protest and show the government who really moves the economy.

You are making a big assumption here, which is really far fetched and wishful thinking.
You are banking on the fact that the natives (already citizens and even fresh GC holders) are going to side by the legal immigrants (who are in the GC process).

Also the fact you are missing is that its the legal immigrants (and not illigal) who are really a threat to Citizens and GC holders in well to do highly paid jobs.

So as far as natives are concerned its in their interest that legal immigrants dont get the GC or citizenship. They would hope that we get fed up and leave one day.
For law makers they would like us to stay and keep floating in the trishanku world (nor here nor there). They will keep showing the bone to keep us interested, and at the same time not allowing us to go the distance.

We are alone in our plight man. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to fight for us. There used to be only one entity that had the power to fight for us and that were the big mutinatinals like (Microsoft, CISCO and the lot and even the big financial companies), but they dont have that power or the clout anymore. Moreover they really dont need H1 people, they are saving a lot of money by employing them in their native country (outsourcing).

Just give me just anyone (organization, group) who can gain anything from providing any reforms to legal immigration.
Just give a name, I will try to find anything useful.
Even illigal immigrants dont gain anything from us.

neo

 

[neocor]

What am i talking about no one gaining from legal immigrants like us.
Even fellow legal immigrants like us dont gain anything from each other.

The only people who really gain anything are fellows like us in our native country as we leave there we create a vacancy there that can be filled by someone like us.
Not to mention the dentists in India.

neo

 

[Jackolantern]

A very surprising thing to me is the number of 11 million. Also, the reasonable estimate is that there was 400,000 labors filed for 245i protection in april 2001. If there were so many illegals, how come not many of them tried to legalize in this manner. It can't be that the great majority of people came after april 2001.

I think it is because they needed an employer to sponsor them, and most employers of low-wage labor are not willing to spend that sort of time and money to sponsor them through the green card process. So the majority of the millions who were here illegally at the time remained illegal.

The proposals floating around seem to allow the illegal aliens to self-sponsor, as long as they pay a fine and prove that they have a job.

 

[saras76]

Agreed ..

What am i talking about no one gaining from legal immigrants like us.
Even fellow legal immigrants like us dont gain anything from each other.

The only people who really gain anything are fellows like us in our native country as we leave there we create a vacancy there that can be filled by someone like us.
Not to mention the dentists in India.

neo

neo,

You are right in that we legals are on our own. I have been saying all along that we need to help ourselves. The best thing for us is to take advantage of everything we can take advantage of. Saving money, going to school parttime to get a higher degree, gain a lot of training in our fields are just a few things we can do on our own. Other than that we have to just wait and hope that the tide somehow turns in our favor. It will happen only if the tide turns in favor or illegals and legal provisions get swept along with them.

Hell if I didn't have to go to work tomorrow I would rally to. If the only way legals can get any relief is by supporting illegals than so be it. Anything will do at this point ..

regards,

saras

 

[Bella Blues]

Have you lost faith in yourself?

What am i talking about no one gaining from legal immigrants like us.
Even fellow legal immigrants like us dont gain anything from each other.

The only people who really gain anything are fellows like us in our native country as we leave there we create a vacancy there that can be filled by someone like us.
Not to mention the dentists in India.

neo

I feel like legal immigrants who are waiting for their greencards or citizenship need more self esteem. Do not lose faith in us, we can all help each other. Look at the illegal immigrants. Look at the outstanding belief that they have in themselves. They think that if every single one of them will protest that the US economy will fall. They know they have buying power. Well, what about us? We definitely outnumber them by millions. Don't we spend our money too? Yes, we do. We go shopping like every one else for Christ's sake! And if we all don't go to work our companies will shut down too! We have more power than they do. If we counter protest and say hey, well, what about us? What about our long waiting-line? What's anybody doing about it??? I believe we have something to say and we very much deserve to be heard!