May 1st illegal immigrants are going to shutdown US

Jackolantern said:
Quotas just clog the system and make people wait for decades.To end chain migration, they should limit family-based immigration to spouses and children under 21, and maybe parents over 65.
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Anything ... My argument was 'Chain Migration' can be controlled...

But not the boarder crossing .... not many guys to patrol the borders ... The wall might work to some extent .. but again they need to hire the undocumented to build and maintain the wall too...

Jobs drives migrations ... and they all come to serve the american people ...
 
kelvinjai said:
Yeah, having more baby and rule the world! If US is too crowded, they can walk to Canada and do the same thing there too.
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95% of US is wilderness.... how can it become crowded..
You can fill the entire population of the world into Texas .. and still the density will be far less than New York City. US is a big place man.

kelvinjai said:
llegal is not that bad because they go back home and walk back to US as often as they wish? Forget about immigrantion and border control. Welcome Bin Ladin, you can setup your startup terrioist company here!! No visa needed!!
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ahhh... all 9-11 guys were legal here.
Any one can get H1b .. Many Desi [Indian] companies are doing end-to-end processing.... You need to have cash thats it ... and the desi companies will do everything for you .. degree / experience / H1b / acco and put you on GC track.

Easy way .. if you have cash ... If you don't have cash then cross the desert on foot or swim for 5 hrs to earn your bread.
 
eBhola, people doesn't want a crowded country like India. That's the reason US has vast wild sceneres and citizens here are smart to keep it as is. This argument that can accomodate millions more in one shot doesn't convince Americans. Not all 9/11 guys were legal here, right ? Some overstayed their visas.

eBhola said:
95% of US is wilderness.... how can it become crowded..
You can fill the entire population of the world into Texas .. and still the density will be far less than New York City. US is a big place man.




ahhh... all 9-11 guys were legal here.
Any one can get H1b .. Many Desi [Indian] companies are doing end-to-end processing.... You need to have cash thats it ... and the desi companies will do everything for you .. degree / experience / H1b / acco and put you on GC track.

Easy way .. if you have cash ... If you don't have cash then cross the desert on foot or swim for 5 hrs to earn your bread.
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He was born in the early 1970s. Maybe at that time Britain wasn't as crowded as today and they needed more ppl. I am aware that today most European nations have no avenue at all for foreigners to be come citizens (unless marriage) and very tough rules to even get permanent residency.

neocor said:
I thought UK does not grant Citizenship to babies born in UK to foreign parents.
I have a friend in UK who had a baby there and he says that his baby is not UK citizen, it does not work that way in UK.

Maybe its just for Indians.

neo
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ufo2002 said:
He was born in the early 1970s. Maybe at that time Britain wasn't as crowded as today and they needed more ppl. I am aware that today most European nations have no avenue at all for foreigners to be come citizens (unless marriage) and very tough rules to even get permanent residency.
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While they are building expressways and new airports in India, India is kicking out those people who live in villages that block the construction of these expressways because these villages/villagers spoil the look of the new generation Indian roads.
 
ufo,

You are wrong about European Nation immigration system. European countries have a much more rational immigration system (for Perm Residency purposes, though not for citizenship)

Granted, it is extremely difficult to gain entry to European countries (though, tech workers more or less have multiple avenues open to get a work permit), but if you are given entry with a work permit, your spouse automatically gets a work permit - not like US where spouse is treated like a sub-human on dependent visa, and has to wait for GC to work legally.

Also, once you are establish work history of a certain period in EU countries(4-6 years, depending on country), you are automatically granted PR.

Granted, European nations do make it more difficult to obtain citizenship. Also, children born in those countries to non citizens are usually not automatically entitled to citizenship by virtue of birthplace, as in the US.

I think Work permit laws are much more rational in Europe, Canada and Australia than the USA. USA has more rational laws in terms of granting citzenship on the basis of birth place.

God bless USA. Hope US Govt and UCSIS realise soon that it is a boon that they get highly qualified people to come here without having to spend a cent on their education. When u get something for free, you don't realise it's worth. It is just a matter of time before people will dislike this torturous immigration process, and the alternatives in India and China will appear to be much more attractive than this life of slavery in US waiting for GC.

When that happens, at that time, I hope flipping burgers would provide good salaries, cos nobody will be buying Boeings for 200 million dollars when you can get similar Indian and Chinese jetliner for 30 million dollars.

Remember, at one time IBM used to pay fabulous salaries, and their consultants were supposed to always wear a suit and tie, and they would not divulge even OS commands to unintelligent Indians, who were computer illiterate. At that time, IBM could get away by charging thousands of dollars to come and look at your system for a few hours.

Remember, when Silicon Graphics was a high flying company, selling systems for millions of dollars. That fate awaits a lot of US corporations - wait and see.
 
I have a guest room in my house doesn't mean I need to put people to live inside. For those illegal immigrants, they have space to live in their home country too, why they need to live here? My neighbor might have a better house than mine but does it mean I can move to his house w/o his permission?
Also, some places need to be developed before we can put people to live there.

eBhola said:
95% of US is wilderness.... how can it become crowded..
You can fill the entire population of the world into Texas .. and still the density will be far less than New York City. US is a big place man.
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Not all 9-11 guys are legal here. Even if you enter US with a legal visa, but once it expires and refuse to leave, you become illegal too. Not anyone can get H1B. It must go through several kinds of verification. I heard some people put fake resume, job description, salary when they file their application.. they are just doing illegal stuff and taking advantages of the immigration process. I wish INS can catch all of them but it is impossible in reality.

Anyway, what is your point?

eBhola said:
ahhh... all 9-11 guys were legal here. Any one can get H1b .. Many Desi [Indian] companies are doing end-to-end processing.... You need to have cash thats it ... and the desi companies will do everything for you .. degree / experience / H1b / acco and put you on GC track.

Easy way .. if you have cash ... If you don't have cash then cross the desert on foot or swim for 5 hrs to earn your bread.
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Dude, most of these people who cross the border, do not do it by themsleves. They have agencies who do it. These agencies promise them better life across the border, and give them false promises that after x years they will get immigrant benefits and they can earn more than they earn in mexico by doing odd jobs and their children will get better education. These agencies do have some connections and the flow of illegals is kinda regulated. At any given time, these people are accounted and the govt does keep a watch on them. Basically they are let into the system on purpose. Let us not blame those people. Remember they are the ones who make your naans or dosas at a desi restaurant. They are the ones who do dirty jobs. If they crossed the broder it is not their fault. They are only asking for a way to get themselves blended. It is like us asking, how lonng will u keep us on h1b??
 
Chandu23, I would acknowledge that they have been serving US employers and they have contributed to the economy. I think no one denies that. The problem is, isn't time to put a stop to this chaotic relationship ? That is the question you have to ask yourself. The way I see is this, what has been done, it has been done. Now it is time to move forward. Unfortunately one cannot legalize 11-20 million without consequences of chain migration and without consequences of sending the word out that it is an invitation to send some more here. This type of "compassion" has been attempted before and the 1986 amnesty and others have been a total failure. I think no one is asking to confiscate belongs, money of illegal aliens and throw them in jail. I am sure that if they enact something like the house bill, people would be given 6 months to take off.

I know this may sound harsh, but the question one has to ask is, do you want to put order in the house or not ?

I know lots and lots of people who came here illegally who came on their own, without any agency or arranged US employer. Even if that was the case, US employers are the ones using their work. The population hasn't been hypocritical on this at all.







chanduv23 said:
Dude, most of these people who cross the border, do not do it by themsleves. They have agencies who do it. These agencies promise them better life across the border, and give them false promises that after x years they will get immigrant benefits and they can earn more than they earn in mexico by doing odd jobs and their children will get better education. These agencies do have some connections and the flow of illegals is kinda regulated. At any given time, these people are accounted and the govt does keep a watch on them. Basically they are let into the system on purpose. Let us not blame those people. Remember they are the ones who make your naans or dosas at a desi restaurant. They are the ones who do dirty jobs. If they crossed the broder it is not their fault. They are only asking for a way to get themselves blended. It is like us asking, how lonng will u keep us on h1b??
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I beg to differ from your view

Chanduv23,

I beg to differ from your view. No doubt money and comforts will lure a man from any walk of life. But being at a place legally or illegally makes a world of difference. First thing, They had to do the dirty job coz, they do not know what else to do. Secondly, our cry about keeping on H1B cannot be compared to being illegal for x amount of years. H1B by itself is a legal process and GC is the derivative process from the H1B process. Every step of the way, we follow the legal framework unlike illegals.

BTW, spanish gang is one of the powerful and growing gangs in California. So, they not only do the jobs that are considered dirty they also do things that are dirty by any standard. How do you know, how many of them that crossed the border does not have a criminal background and just lies low and now protesting for a legal status now? Should this border breaches continue, one day another group of mad men like the ones that took the flight and rammed it against all important places in this country, could very well venture again into this country using this route.

Of all that, I only astonish the strength they drew up to show up on the streets and press for legalization.

In any part of the world politician and politics sucks. They are the ones responsible for any such menace.
 
Their agencies gave them false signal and we need to take the responsibility?? Give me a break! Financial analyst always give us false info, does it mean they are responsible for our lost in stock market? NO! The person himself is the one who should verfiy the info and there is no free lunch in any country.

So if they found out this country is not as great as they thought, then leave! No one ask them to stay here but in fact they are the one who ask for a legal status.

Government only keep track on LEGAL immigrants and we NEVER say illegal immigrants can enter into this country as they wish.

They crossed the border and it's not their fault??? What are you talking about.. maybe it's my fault then..

Again, it seems like people trying to mix up LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants..

chanduv23 said:
Dude, most of these people who cross the border, do not do it by themsleves. They have agencies who do it. These agencies promise them better life across the border, and give them false promises that after x years they will get immigrant benefits and they can earn more than they earn in mexico by doing odd jobs and their children will get better education. These agencies do have some connections and the flow of illegals is kinda regulated. At any given time, these people are accounted and the govt does keep a watch on them. Basically they are let into the system on purpose. Let us not blame those people. Remember they are the ones who make your naans or dosas at a desi restaurant. They are the ones who do dirty jobs. If they crossed the broder it is not their fault. They are only asking for a way to get themselves blended. It is like us asking, how lonng will u keep us on h1b??
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Chanduv,

How could you say the flow of illegals is accounted and regulated? That's a paradox in itself.... trying to get a statistic on people who refuse to be documented. The 12 million figure released by the Pew Hispanic Center was commented as being a moderate count, with some people saying the number is as high as 20 million. These 'agencies' do not care for regulating the flow...
they care about the payoff. If the entire population of a country wants to sneak into the US, they would glady help all of them for the love of money.

And lastly, for illegals to think that simply walking on the streets and demanding amnesty is their right: read this article.... could be a sign of things to come.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...,6744848.story?coll=la-news-politics-national

chanduv23 said:
Dude, most of these people who cross the border, do not do it by themsleves. They have agencies who do it. These agencies promise them better life across the border, and give them false promises that after x years they will get immigrant benefits and they can earn more than they earn in mexico by doing odd jobs and their children will get better education. These agencies do have some connections and the flow of illegals is kinda regulated. At any given time, these people are accounted and the govt does keep a watch on them. Basically they are let into the system on purpose. Let us not blame those people. Remember they are the ones who make your naans or dosas at a desi restaurant. They are the ones who do dirty jobs. If they crossed the broder it is not their fault. They are only asking for a way to get themselves blended. It is like us asking, how lonng will u keep us on h1b??
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I think democrats and supporters of illegal aliens should accept Cornyn/Kyl bill and ask folks to return home and apply for a guest-worker program there. That would probably be acceptable. They are just stalling things.


ufo2002 said:
Chanduv,

How could you say the flow of illegals is accounted and regulated? That's a paradox in itself.... trying to get a statistic on people who refuse to be documented. The 12 million figure released by the Pew Hispanic Center was commented as being a moderate count, with some people saying the number is as high as 20 million. These 'agencies' do not care for regulating the flow...
they care about the payoff. If the entire population of a country wants to sneak into the US, they would glady help all of them for the love of money.

And lastly, for illegals to think that simply walking on the streets and demanding amnesty is their right: read this article.... could be a sign of things to come.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...,6744848.story?coll=la-news-politics-national
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I am not supportive for their cause, but would not say they must be dealt with force. It might not make sense if we even say they are not unaccounted or regulated. Yes they did not follow the system, the jumped the wall or over stayed on their visa which is not the right thing. They chose the path that is not right. But they feel they are very much into the system and are seeking a path to legalization. Who are we to give opinion as to what must be done to deal with them?

What is the guarantee that we will be dealt in the right way? So many bills came up for legal immigration and all these bills did not make it? Why did they stop applying ac21 all of a sudden? Why is there no mention of legal immigration in any agenda? Why are we ignored?

I am always supportive of following the system and we are very much into the system and we have hope, but they feel what they do will fetch them something. I can keep talking about this ........................ for hours...
 
I can give my opinion on the right thing to do:
First of all, this is a chaotic relationship and someone will get hurt in this process.

If it is true that a certain number of immigrants is required here, so go ahead and increase the family based quota in 400,000/year instead of creating a guest-worker program. Guest-worker programs don't work. Then when individuals arrive here, let them work throughout the process of greencard using a limited EAD, tailored to the specific sector the US has demand for (such as agriculture, etc). Therefore in the first couple of years an individual would be working for a specific sector and later he/she gets a greencard, OK to have freedom to pick other sectors. That should take care of it. Also, reform welfare and make it more strict and force lazy Americans to work. I personally know a healthy fellow who has been on welfare for 2 years. I hear all the time that is getting more common these days. Raise the minimum wages. Make legal for kids above fourteen years old to work. I started to work full-time when I was 13.

Regarding the existing illegal aliens I would thank them all for contributions they have done so far. Then I would give them six months to move on and go back to their country. In six months I would enforce HR 4437, stop anchor baby.

That should force some to go home voluntarily. Many would not go home, but the illegal population would be reduced by attrition and occasional deportations.



chanduv23 said:
I am not supportive for their cause, but would not say they must be dealt with force. It might not make sense if we even say they are not unaccounted or regulated. Yes they did not follow the system, the jumped the wall or over stayed on their visa which is not the right thing. They chose the path that is not right. But they feel they are very much into the system and are seeking a path to legalization. Who are we to give opinion as to what must be done to deal with them?

What is the guarantee that we will be dealt in the right way? So many bills came up for legal immigration and all these bills did not make it? Why did they stop applying ac21 all of a sudden? Why is there no mention of legal immigration in any agenda? Why are we ignored?

I am always supportive of following the system and we are very much into the system and we have hope, but they feel what they do will fetch them something. I can keep talking about this ........................ for hours...
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marlon2006 said:
I can give my opinion on the right thing to do:
First of all, this is a chaotic relationship and someone will get hurt in this process.

If it is true that a certain number of immigrants is required here, so go ahead and increase the family based quota in 400,000/year instead of creating a guest-worker program. Guest-worker programs don't work. Then when individuals arrive here, let them work throughout the process of greencard using a limited EAD, tailored to the specific sector the US has demand for (such as agriculture, etc). Therefore in the first couple of years an individual would be working for a specific sector and later he/she gets a greencard, OK to have freedom to pick other sectors. That should take care of it. Also, reform welfare and make it more strict and force lazy Americans to work. I personally know a healthy fellow who has been on welfare for 2 years. I hear all the time that is getting more common these days. Raise the minimum wages. Make legal for kids above fourteen years old to work. I started to work full-time when I was 13.

Regarding the existing illegal aliens I would thank them all for contributions they have done so far. Then I would give them six months to move on and go back to their country. In six months I would enforce HR 4437, stop anchor baby.

That should force some to go home voluntarily. Many would not go home, but the illegal population would be reduced by attrition and occasional deportations.
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I respect your opinion. Yes, America has history of forming and ending chotic relationships by hurting the relationship once for all. On the whole America fulfils what it wants and what it needs. The whole concept of illegal and legal immigration and having temp contractors to do dirty jobs is American. From our side we are skilled workers and professionals and call ourselves software consultants or doctors but from their side, we are alien first and they decide how to keep us. Yes, it is not their fault, it is our fault. If we are exploited they care shit for us. They can make false promises and get away. It is "Use and throw" rather than "use annd keep"

Everyone wants things to be cool and not deal with trash. The definition of trash is
(1) Trash 1 - illegal aliens (Big trash)
(2) Trash 2 - Legal aliens from populated countries (small trash)

Not much difference between them and us.
 
Unfortunate

chanduv23 said:
I respect your opinion. Yes, America has history of forming and ending chotic relationships by hurting the relationship once for all. On the whole America fulfils what it wants and what it needs. The whole concept of illegal and legal immigration and having temp contractors to do dirty jobs is American. From our side we are skilled workers and professionals and call ourselves software consultants or doctors but from their side, we are alien first and they decide how to keep us. Yes, it is not their fault, it is our fault. If we are exploited they care shit for us. They can make false promises and get away. It is "Use and throw" rather than "use annd keep"

Everyone wants things to be cool and not deal with trash. The definition of trash is
(1) Trash 1 - illegal aliens (Big trash)
(2) Trash 2 - Legal aliens from populated countries (small trash)

Not much difference between them and us.
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chanduv23,
I agree with marlon2006 that guest worker programs don't work. I would like to disagree with you. We are in a foreign country and Americans have the right to decide who they want and who they don't. If you don't like their policies, find another alternative (U.K., Canada, Australia) OR fight for a reasonable legislative solution (hint: join IV). I agree with you that we allow them to exploit us. But that happens in India or any other country too.

What promises has America made to you that it broke? If America is selfish, there is nothing wrong with that. Which country and which individual is not?

And regarding you considering yourself small trash, that is just simply unfortunate. I feel sorry for you.

Have a good weekend.
 
RAYDHAN said:
chanduv23,
I agree with marlon2006 that guest worker programs don't work. I would like to disagree with you. We are in a foreign country and Americans have the right to decide who they want and who they don't. If you don't like their policies, find another alternative (U.K., Canada, Australia) OR fight for a reasonable legislative solution (hint: join IV). I agree with you that we allow them to exploit us. But that happens in India or any other country too.

What promises has America made to you that it broke? If America is selfish, there is nothing wrong with that. Which country and which individual is not?

And regarding you considering yourself small trash, that is just simply unfortunate. I feel sorry for you.

Have a good weekend.
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I think my language or way of writing is portraying a negative image and making people feel that I have negative opinions. I am not against their policies and totally agree to the fact that whatever America does is right. Yes America did not make any promise to me, and I have no issues personally. I recently hopped to eb2 and got L/C cleared. I decide my rate and work on %age with my consulting company and am happy with what I do. My wife is doing her residency on h1b visa and she is happy. it does not make a difference to me if I get a GC or not, I can allways work on a h1b visa as long as I love my $$ rate. I am not trying to vent my frustrations by blaming America. On a personal basis America has brought the best out of me and my wife.
At the same time, I do not endorse things like "trash treatment". It is my personal opinion. I do not decide what America must do. I personally feel that those who ask the right question must get a right answer. Political interferences and other factors must not take undue advantage of immigrants situation.
When it comes to behaving responsibly I definitely think, an answer "Who asked you to get exploited, who asked u to come here ???"" is the most irresponsible answer. Personally I will not take my situation to a level where I ask " Please do something our relationship is kinda strained, and I am suffering". If I am in such situation, I am solely responsible for it. When such a situation arises "I am a trash". I have always contributed to threads on how to lead a good life on h1b visa waiting for green card, how to develop skills,how to keep smart and be cautious and how to be patient.
When it comes to immigrating to Canada or UK, I once again agree with you that we always have a choice. In fact, even in India the under previlidged are treated bad, and in fact it is worse.
I think I must stop blogging here because this place again turns out to be another place that does not endorse personal opinions, rather points out to a situation and blames the person just because it is easy to blame someone in a bad situation.
Let us stop this kind of discussion because it is becoming unhealthy.
I never blame anyone : who knows "there might be the next American president among those who rallied for immigration benefits" " there might be a scientist who finds cure for AIDS among those retrogressed h1b visa". I just voiced my opinion that there could be a better way to handle things.
 
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