Legal vs. Illegal Immigrants

> I agree with that. In particular, the fines should be much larger.

Which won't do a thing if there is no enforcement action to back it up. Apparently the number of actual site visits has plummeted since 9-11 because the ICE agents are used for security related issues. And as state and local law enforcement (who perform 99% of policing in this country) have no jurisdiction in these matters, employers are pretty safe from trouble. ICE has focussed on big employers that they can turn into a press-release to make the public believe that they are 'clamping down' when in fact the number of enforcement actions is down.

At this point, employers are in a dicey situation. If they deny employment to someone because they think that the fake green-card is fake, they risk getting sued or even prosecuted by the justide departments immigration discrimination division. If they accept any fake document that seems halfway legit, they are immune from prosecution.

A solution would be some sort of employment eligibility verification system (at this point, there is only the mechanism of the 'no match' letters from SSA. But these letters come months later and have no consequence). USCIS had a pilot program giving employers a client software to check on employment eligibility for their new hires. At the time (2003 maybe), the expectation was that this system would be rolled out on a broader front pretty soon. But I am under the impression that it slowly withered away and died.

I am under the impression that there is little motivation to really address the issue. Many of the illegals actually pay taxes, SS and medicare (either through their 'non-working SSN' or by using an ITIN on a fake SS card).
 
Hey guys, interesting thread. I'd like to make a few points:

1) Who cares about the law really. The law is simply no more than the opinion of the majority of the people, people like you and me(well at least that's what we hope for in theory, but I suspect more than a few are a result of great manipulative skills of the few in power). Basically we're arguing about the law itself, so you can't just say because the law says this, because then you'd be using an unsupported premise to support another unsupported premise(it's like the same religious nuts who like to say the Bible says this and that, even though the Bible itself is the very thing that needs to be proven.)

2) To me, what it comes down to is contributions. To me, whoever makes the most contribution deserves to stay. I like the idea of having them pay back taxes(but being the Darwinist that I am, I would increase it to 50%, knowing how desperate they are.) If they don't pay them, then put them in jail, just like the rest of us. It's that simple.

Also, what makes "us" different from "them?" Many of us sit on the computer all day doing virtually nothing, while collecting pay, and we have the audacity to complain about them living off our taxes. Pathetic.

3) And when you really think about it, it all comes down to overpopulation and resources, which is why the population of other countries(and possibly ourselves) must first be brought under control. What I'd do is make a deal with those respective countries. We'll legalize all the immigrants, as long as you have a law that says that you can't have more than two children per couple.

This may seem paradoxical, but for every person, that's about a million worth of resources needed to feed him/her, yet it's much harder to ignore the condition of a person that has already been born than to not give birth(you can't be heartless to someone that hasn't been born). To put it another way, it's very easy to give birth, much harder to watch someone die. That is why we must not give birth, unless we are sure that we can support them.

4) I suspect a few anti-immigration sentiment has less to do with "living on our taxes"(as if people think that taxes have always been used efficiently, for example, for every failed Missile Defense test, that's enough money to feed an African country, don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of testing(and I'm also in favor of all of Bush's decision to invade Iraq, because if you can eliminate all the foreign threats, then obviously, you don't need to waste as much resources on the defense department, but that's another story), and has more to do with the fear of these guys "overtaking" this country.

And that's actually true. For example, in situations like this, you know who's going to side with who, as much as we want this to be a racist-free country, it will probably never be, not until every race gets what it wants. And given the difference of opinion on this, it may already be too late.
 
Unfair

It took me 10 years of blood and sweat to get the GC. Legalizing the illegals is unfair to thousands like me who play by the rules. Everybody has a family to feed and everybody would like to work where the grass is greener. But that is no excuse to break the law.
 
Who cares about the law really.
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I'd like to see that line used in court! :rolleyes:

To me, what it comes down to is contributions.
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Do you mean things like depressed wages, school, emergency room and prison overcrowding? Illegals should be deported. There are plenty who are waiting in line to come to the US legally.

We'll legalize all the immigrants, as long as you have a law that says that you can't have more than two children per couple.
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You're joking right?

> I agree with that. In particular, the fines should be much larger.

Which won't do a thing if there is no enforcement action to back it up.
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The fines are part of enforcement.
 
JoeF said:
Where do get that this overcrowding comes from illegals?
In particular, emergency room overcrowding does not. It comes from Americans without health insurance. There have been studies about that.
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Yeah sure, well Mr. "Brain Surgeon" why don't you propose to amend the Constitution and to have all the Americans without health insurance deported, so the ILLEGALS not to be so crowded anymore... :rolleyes:
 
INTERESTING points....

nike3272 said:
...Who cares about the law really...
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nike3272 said:
...whoever makes the most contribution deserves to stay...
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nike3272 said:
...Many of us sit on the computer all day doing virtually nothing...
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nike3272 said:
...We'll legalize all the immigrants, as long as you have a law that says that you can't have more than two children per couple.
...
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I feel sorry for all of us. We've been trying to follow the law and still waited a long long time to get GC.

Those who came here illegally will get legalized anyway. They have louder voice and more people, I guess.

Are we dumb or stupid? Why did we even follow the law? What's the point to have the law? Anyone, please give me some enlightment!!! thanks

I am confused!! :confused:
 
blahblah_gc said:
I feel sorry for all of us. We've been trying to follow the law and still waited a long long time to get GC.

Those who came here illegally will get legalized anyway. They have louder voice and more people, I guess.

Are we dumb or stupid? Why did we even follow the law? What's the point to have the law? Anyone, please give me some enlightment!!! thanks

I am confused!! :confused:
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Plus they have a walk off and we didn't.. :D
 
out of status vs unlawful presence

wat is the diff between the 2?? which is subjest to the bar??
 
blahblah_gc said:
I feel sorry for all of us. We've been trying to follow the law and still waited a long long time to get GC.

Those who came here illegally will get legalized anyway. They have louder voice and more people, I guess.

Are we dumb or stupid? Why did we even follow the law? What's the point to have the law? Anyone, please give me some enlightment!!! thanks

I am confused!! :confused:
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There is nothing dumb or stupid about following the law. Those that have violated the law decided to risk the consequences and may soon have to deal with those consequences. The federal government has been too slow to act and many individual states are enacting laws against illegal aliens. More and more average Americans are opening their eyes to the problems. Illegals are soon going to find it difficult to find a place to live, drive, buy cars and work.
 
i remembered somebody petitioned for him to be banned from this forum. to his credit, he did give a lot of good advices and was a big help.


hadron said:
Did he close his account ? All his posts have disappeared.
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I had my disagreements with him, but I couldn't see anything in his postings that would warrant the admins to kick him off. He was an anal retentive stickler with this 'you have to stick to the letter of the law because it is the law' attitude, but his advice for the most part was 3/4 correct. One thing he wouldn't stand for are sob-stories. If someone f####d up, he wouldn't sugarcoat it (didn't make him popular with the 'skirting the confines of the law H1b consultant' types on this board, but again, not a reason to be 'banned').

I think he just got exasperated with the level of stupidity anyone reading this board has to encounter every day and cancelled his account. Or maybe now that he is a citizen he doesn't care to spend his time on an immigration BB.
 
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