Legaility for forcing to get Surrender Certificate

rpranesh

Registered Users (C)
Is it legal for the GoI and Consulate to force us to sign the renunciation?

The reason I am saying is that I voluntarily acquired US Citizenship, and as per India law, the law has renounced me (i.e.) I lost my Indian Citizenship implicitly.

However asking me to sign this form makes me to explicitly renounce.

The reason the implicit/explicit makes a big difference is that, if future Indian law changes (nobody can rule it out), that says that "unless you explicitly renounce Indian citizenship, you do not lose your Indian citizenship." (i.e.) getting another countries citizenship does not affect IC (much like US or Canadian law).

Anybody with me?
 
I agree. This new renunciation is against constitution of India. Per constitution, it is clear that one looses Indian citizenship automatically when a foreign citizenship has been acquired voluntarily. And India does not allow one to travel while holding both Foreign (US) and Indian valid passports. I don't see any possibility that people traveling to India on Indian passport while holding another country's passport (viz citizenship other than India). Other than milking NRI cow, no use of this and above all; it's violation of constitution of India.
on side note: When consular officer can sign renunciation of Indian citizenship, why can't they issue OCI here in US?
 
I read a statistics which says that they have approved 2 million OCI's. That itself is around $550 million USD. Now they want some more. Guess with OCI giving lifelong visa, most PIO do not need to renew or get any other visa/PIO which drains their cash cow and now they are forced to reinvent.
 
Good question, but i think they will weasel their way out of this. If you give up a country's citizenship, then you no longer have the right to carry that country's valid passport. It has to be "cancelled" and maybe they are well within their rights to charge a "fee" for canceling albeit $175 is atrocious. All the rest - a surrender "certificate" etc will only make it more complicated at the Port of Entry in India.. for ex, are you required to carry this Surrender certificate with you? How about the cancelled Indian PP (i know some ppl have been asked for this)? Or both?

The other thing is Persons of Indian Origin have to apply for X-Entry Visa and NOT Tourist Visa. A 6-month Tourist visa costs $63 and 6-month Entry Visa costs $100 - why the discrimination among citizens of the same country (USA here). Ofcourse, they dare not hike up the tourist visa price otherwise the US can retaliate by rising their visa fees for Indians (it is reciprocal). So, a PIO is a cash cow for Indian Govt.. charge them whatever and they will pay - after all they HAVE to visit India every few years..as Pranesh said, they will keep inventing new rules to bilk the cow..The OCI booklet also has a finite number of pages - so you need to pay to renew it AND if the U-visa is in a Older US passport and needs to be transferred, again you need to pay..so, it is not like it is a one time deal..
 
Is it legal for the GoI and Consulate to force us to sign the renunciation?

The reason I am saying is that I voluntarily acquired US Citizenship, and as per India law, the law has renounced me (i.e.) I lost my Indian Citizenship implicitly.

However asking me to sign this form makes me to explicitly renounce.

The reason the implicit/explicit makes a big difference is that, if future Indian law changes (nobody can rule it out), that says that "unless you explicitly renounce Indian citizenship, you do not lose your Indian citizenship." (i.e.) getting another countries citizenship does not affect IC (much like US or Canadian law).

Anybody with me?
You are Correct. We need a good India lawyer who can challenge that what NYC is asking in Supreme Court of India. And any Indian Citizen can File RTI with MHA and also with Ministry of External affairs. I am with you and I think all are with you. Post the Info also in NY thread.
 
Ananth,
Slight legality, I am not giving up a India's citizenship, I am acquiring US citizenship. The Indian law says that you are no more an IC when you acquire an another country's Citizenship. What if the Indian law changes tomorrow (becomes more like US or Canadian law), where you do not lose IC unless you explicitly renounce it.

Then in this case, acquiring US citizenship does not affect IC. But by forcing to renounce Indian citizenship (anyway redundant because the law has already renounced me), you will not be able to get your Indian passport because you have formally renounced it.

Canceling the passport is no big deal. The current law does not allow it. But if law changes, you can always apply for a new passport as though you never lost your IC.

But I am pretty sure, even if Indian law changes to allow true dual citizenship, they will figure out a way to milk more money. They will come out with a new form called "Annulling renunciation/Retain/Regain Indian Citizenship"
 
I agree. This new renunciation is against constitution of India. Per constitution, it is clear that one looses Indian citizenship automatically when a foreign citizenship has been acquired voluntarily. And India does not allow one to travel while holding both Foreign (US) and Indian valid passports. I don't see any possibility that people traveling to India on Indian passport while holding another country's passport (viz citizenship other than India). Other than milking NRI cow, no use of this and above all; it's violation of constitution of India.

on side note: When consular officer can sign renunciation of Indian citizenship, why can't they issue OCI here in US?
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OCI is acknowledged, Granted, Scanned by Consulate and only PRINTED in Delhi. I read artical few months back in Times of India that MHA has Plan to Install OCI printing machines in Consulates.
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I read artical few months back in Times of India that MHA has Plan to Install OCI printing machines in Consulates.

... So half the drama is because they can not invest in "printers" for each consulate. Given the right monetary incentive, I am sure Travisa will not provide printing service for all US/India consulates (without setting up printers in all consulates), they will also provide adequate security and better status to both consumers (us) and to MHA/consulates.
 
I don't even know why the OCI card is necessary. The U visa is clearly sufficient, as people have traveled using only that, and without the card, and had no problems entering India. On the other hand, people who've used ONLY the OCI card have had trouble, so installing printers for that useless card (which, really, can be made using passport machines, am I right?) is a HUGE waste. I don't even believe they have different printers.
 
May be organizing "get well soon" campaign helps bringing more attention to this issue. I have read 1967 passport act and could not find any information where it states renunciation of citizenship is necessary. in fact this act (which Chicago consulate cites as reason for renunciation of citizenship thingi) has provisions to issue Indian passport to foriegners, :)
 
here is the constitution of India excerpt (Section II, Article 8 regarding Indian citizenship):
"9. No person shall be a citizen of India by virtue of article 5 (by birth/through Indian parents/through immigration acquired citizenship), or be deemed to be a citizen of India by virtue of article 6 (partition related) or article 8 (post independence, post partition immigrants to other countries), if he has voluntarily acquired the citizenship of any foreign State."
This constitution provision essentially removes Indian authority control over it's citizens when they acquire cistizenship of foreign state, voluntarily. When one is not citizen as defined in constitution and not resident in India, how can one violate a foreign country's citizenship rule/law?(yes, India is foreign state after acquiring US citizenship). And when one is not a citizen of India anymore, how can they "surrender" their citizenship?
Apart from $175 fee is milking NRI cow, it is plain illegal (unless constitution is amended) and can certainly be challenged in court of law.
 
New Rule for Surrender of Indian Passport on Becoming US Citizen

"The most recent notice posted on the website of Consul Generals of India, San Francisco and New York stipulates that Persons of Indian Origin in the United States of America who have acquired U.S citizenship, are required to surrender their Indian Passports to the nearest Indian Consulate within 90 days of their naturalization. The surrender certificate is free if the Indian passport expired before January 1, 2005. If the Indian Passport expired after January 1, 2005 and was not surrendered within three years of obtaining US citizenship, service fee of $175 will be charged provided the Indian passport was not used for travel in which case penalty would also apply. The Government of India requires completion of a form and payment of fee and penalty, if applicable, for obtaining the surrender certificate. A US citizen of Indian origin applying for an Indian visa, OCI/PIO cards or wanting other consular services may not be able to get any such service without complying with the new rules.
Per Section 8 of the Citizenship Act 1955, “any citizen of India of full age and capacity, who is also a citizen or national of another country, makes in the prescribed manner a declaration renouncing his Indian citizenship, the declaration shall be registered by the prescribed authority; and, upon such registration, that person shall cease to be a citizen of India.” However, Section 9 of the same Act states that, “Any citizen of India who by naturalization, registration or otherwise voluntarily acquires, or has at any time between the 26th January, 1950 and the commencement of this Act voluntarily acquired, the citizenship of another country shall, upon such acquisition or, as the case may be, such commencement, cease to be a citizen of India.”
The provisions for making a declaration of renunciation are separate and distinct from the provisions of termination of citizenship. While renunciation of citizenship is covered in Section 8 of the Citizenship Act 1955 and has to be applied on a prescribed form, automatic termination of citizenship is covered under Section 9 and requires no formal application to the Indian government. Indians in the USA who have acquired American citizenship are covered under section 9 and not under Section 8. But the new rules posted on the consular website require that the “Indian passport must be surrendered within 90 days of US naturalization” and ‘Surrender Certificate’ should be obtained from the nearest Consul General of India. This rule will be enforced by refusal to grant consular services, such as visa to India, grant of OCI/PIO card, etc.
There are thousands of people who have obtained US citizenship for the last over sixty years and they have been travelling to India on American passport with Indian visa granted by the same consulates whose websites have new rules which are applicable retroactively. If the law did exist in the past, Indian consulates in the U.S should have asked for the surrender of Indian passport before granting Indian visa to U.S citizens of Indian origin. Requiring Americans of Indian Origin to surrender their Indian passport after the lapse of many years of their naturalization, would cause undue hardship and delay in getting consular services. In case an applicant has lost, damaged or surrendered his Indian passport to a foreign Government, he/she is required to furnish certified copies of following documents, as per notice on Indian Consulate website:
1. Details of last held Indian passport (Passport No., Date of Issue & Place of issue). The onus of providing details rest on the applicant.
2. Official documents submitted to US authority at the time of obtaining US citizenship/naturalization & I -130.
3. Notarized letter explaining reasons for loss.
4. Police report.
A large majority of the new citizens had no use for their old Indian passport and may have lost, misplaced or never kept in their possession after naturalization. The production of items 1 and 2 above, in particular, will not be easy and could take months to obtain from the U.S government. The Government of India should reconsider the retroactive enforcement of the new rules as thousands of people who have acquired citizenship of the United States, could suffer undue and unnecessary hardship for no fault of their own.


Is it legal for the GoI and Consulate to force us to sign the renunciation?

The reason I am saying is that I voluntarily acquired US Citizenship, and as per India law, the law has renounced me (i.e.) I lost my Indian Citizenship implicitly.

However asking me to sign this form makes me to explicitly renounce.

The reason the implicit/explicit makes a big difference is that, if future Indian law changes (nobody can rule it out), that says that "unless you explicitly renounce Indian citizenship, you do not lose your Indian citizenship." (i.e.) getting another countries citizenship does not affect IC (much like US or Canadian law).

Anybody with me?
 
"The most recent notice posted on the website of Consul Generals of India, San Francisco and New York stipulates that Persons of Indian Origin in the United States of America who have acquired U.S citizenship, are required to surrender their Indian Passports to the nearest Indian Consulate within 90 days of their naturalization. The surrender certificate is free if the Indian passport expired before January 1, 2005. If the Indian Passport expired after January 1, 2005 and was not surrendered within three years of obtaining US citizenship, service fee of $175 will be charged provided the Indian passport was not used for travel in which case penalty would also apply. urrender certificate.

Sorry...but you're not correct stating "The surrender certificate is free if the Indian passport expired before January 1, 2005". None of the website say so. You have to pay $175 fee for the Surender certificate regardless your indian passsport is expried before or after January 1, 2005. Nothing that Indian Government ever give out "Free".
 
Indian Passport Authorities Impose Criminal Fines on Naturalized US citizens of Indian Origin Via Su

The Indian-American community has been protesting the May 2010 Surrender Certificate Rule which levies a fine on naturalized US citizens of Indian origin to cancel their invalid Indian passports. Recent information indicates that the Indian Passport Authorities are imposing criminal fines on Naturalized US citizens of Indian Origin.


A senior Indian Government official recently explained that the Surrender Certificate is not a new rule. He said the Surrender Certificate Rule is prescribed in the Passports Acts, 1967 (“1967 Act”). He stated that even the associated fee of $175 is not arbitrary; he proclaimed that the fees were prescribed by that same 1967 Act. A close reading of the 1967 Act show that Indian Passport Authorities are using their discretionary powers to unfairly impose criminal fines on a cooperative Indian-American diaspora.


The Indian government’s recent imposition of the surrender certificate rule is ill-considered, rash, and unfairly punitive. We do not question that the Government of India, as set forth in the 1967 Act, has the power to revoke to invalid Indian passports. The question is more about the creation of an onerous and retroactive process of acquiring a surrender certificate and the imposition of criminal penalties on the community without determining individual proof of wrongdoing. The retroactive Surrender Certification Rule and associated fines should be abolished immediately.

I. The Indian Government – without dispute – has the authority to vary, impound, or revoke passports for wrongdoing or in its discretion based on national security or in the interest of the general public.

The Passport Act allows the Indian Government to vary, impound, or revoke passports for wrongful possession, for obtainment by misinformation, as well as in the Government of India’s discretion based on national security and in the interest of the general public. Section 10(1) of the Act says:

The passport authority may . . . vary or cancel the conditions subject to which a passport or travel document has been issued and may, for that purpose, require the holder of a passport or travel document, by notice in writing, to deliver up the passport or travel document to it within such time as may be specified in the notice and the holder shall comply with such notice.


Section 10(3) of the Act provides:

The passport authority may impound or cause to be impounded or revoke a passport or travel document, --

(a) if the passport authority is satisfied that the holder of the passport or travel document is in wrongful possession thereof;

(b) If the passport or travel document was obtained by the suppression of material information or on the basis of wrong information provided by the holder of the passport or travel document or any other person on his behalf

(c) if the passport authority deems it necessary so to do in the interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of India, . . . or in the interests of the general public;


Most of the 1967 Act focuses on revocation of passports for wrong information or wrongful possession. However, there is also a discretionary clause for revocation when the passport authority deems it necessary in the interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India. Because of the discretionary clause, we are not challenging the Government of India’s right to cancel or revoke an Indian passport once an Indian changes citizenship to another country.

II. The $175 fee and additional penalties for canceling an invalid Indian passport is excessive and unfairly punitive

The $175 fee and additional penalties for canceling an invalid Indian passport are excessive and unfairly punitive. According to the senior Indian official, the $175+ fees were prescribed in the Act. The only fees set forth in the Act are criminal penalties.

In Section 12(1)(A) entitled “Offences and penalties,” the Passport Act, 1967 establishes “Whoever, not being a citizen of India,

(a) Makes an application for a passport or obtains a passport by suppressing information about his nationality, or

(b) Holds a forged passport or any travel document

Shall be punishable with imprisonment for a term which shall not be less than one year but which may extend to five years and with fine which shall not be less than ten thousand rupees but which may extend to fifty thousand rupees (emphasis added).


Under the 1967 Act, there was no fine prescribed for passports revoked or canceled under the discretionary clause. The only fine prescribed by the Act was a punishment for obtaining a passport based on wrong information or holding a forged passport.


The Indian Embassy has set a base fee of $175 for issuing a surrender certificate to any naturalized US citizen of Indian origin who does not already have a canceled stamp on their invalid Indian passport. Naturalized US citizens who do not surrender their passport within three months of naturalization pay additional penalties of $250. $175 is roughly equivalent to the ten thousand rupees criminal fine prescribed in Section 12(1)(A). In essence, the Indian government is considering every naturalized US citizen guilty of a criminal offense and subjecting them to a criminal penalty.

Instead of singling out individual cases of fraud or forgery, the Indian Embassy has levied a fine en masse on all naturalized US citizens of Indian origin who hold an invalid Indian passport as a natural byproduct of their US citizen naturalization process. Even people of Indian origin who did not suppress information or do not hold a forged passport must pay the fine in order to access Indian consular services. This $175 fine and subsequent fees are not in accordance with the provisions of the 1967 Act. The fees are arbitrary and unfairly punitive; the fees should be abolished immediately.

III. The retroactive application of the new Surrender Certificate rule on people with expired passports is unlawful

The retroactive application of the new Surrender Certificate rule is unlawful. A senior Indian official intimated that the surrender certificate requirement is not new; it was prescribed by the 1967 Act. That is blatantly false. As demonstrated in Section I above, The 1967 Act does not set forth any such rule requiring renunciation and cancellation of a passport upon change of citizenship. It may fall under the Government’s discretionary powers. However, the Government of India has not shown the retroactive application and cancelation of expired passports is “necessary so to do in the interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of India, . . . or in the interests of the general public.”

The Surrender Certificate Rule provides on the Indian Consulate Website (Chicago):

Indian citizens acquiring US (or other foreign) citizenship and renouncing Indian citizenship are required to surrender their Indian passports for cancellation and obtain a "Surrender Certificate" which is issued by the Consulate. They can obtain this Certificate after payment of fees of US$ 175/-, while surrendering their passports to the Consulate. These passports are cancelled and returned to the passport holder for the future reference.

Penalties will be charged from those passport holders who do not surrender their passports within 3 months of their acquiring foreign citizenships . . .

(iv) The “Surrender Certificate” will be issued before issuing the visa/OCI card or PIO card or providing any miscellaneous services for the first time. This is essential for processing of your visa/OCI/PIO application as well as any miscellaneous services.


The Supreme Court of India in Satwant Singh Sawhney v. Union of India (W.P. No 236 of 1966) held that the right to travel abroad is a part of a person’s personal liberty of which he could not be deprived except according to procedure established by law in terms of article 21 of the Indian Constitution. Article 21 of the Indian Constitution sets forth: “Protection Of Life And Personal Liberty: No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty except according to procedure established by law.” Article 14 of the Indian Constitution establishes "The State shall not deny to any person equality before the law.”


The Government has not shown a security concern or interest of the general public triggered by US citizens holding expired Indian passports. There is no basis for wholesale retroactive application of the Surrender Certificate Rule to all naturalized US citizens of Indian origin – especially those whose passports are expired. Requiring a surrender certificate (and hefty fees) as ransom for Indian consular services infringes on personal liberty and equality before the law. The current Surrender Certificate Rule, retroactively applied, infringes on the personal liberty and due process rights of naturalized US citizens of Indian origin.


Moreover, levying a criminal fine on members of the Indian diaspora for not immediately surrendering the invalid Indian passport to the Indian Embassy after becoming a naturalized US citizen is also a violation of due process and equal treatment by the law. The 1967 Act does not call for a criminal fine where the Government uses its discretionary powers to cancel passports.


The Surrender Certificate Rule should NOT be retroactively applied. The $175 criminal fine and additional penalties should not be levied on law-abiding US citizens seeking consular services to visit India. Both the retroactive application of the Surrender Certificate Rule and exorbitant criminal fines should be abolished immediately.
 
Completely Agree!

I've been arguing the constitutional legality of requiring former Indian citizens to renounce their citizenship with people I meet but it doesn't seem to bother them. If in fact one does lose their Indian citizenship the moment another citizenship is acquired, then a conflict arises by asking a person to renounce the Indian citizenship. Either I have something to renounce or I don't. If I do have something to renounce, I am an Indian citizen until I file for renunciation. I can't believe they would pull such an illogical stunt on everyone.

Till 2010, they charged $30 to cancel a passport. Now its $175.

Unfortunately, I had to do so to obtain my OCI but I would very much like to file a suit in court questioning the obvious legality of this.
 
Naturalized US citizens who do not surrender their passport within three months of naturalization pay additional penalties of $250.

Here's another problem. I became a USC a month ago. However, my travel needs are limited at this time and I don't intend to apply for a US passport for next year or so.

However, the application for Surrender Certificate mandates having a US passport number ( I talked with NYC and Houston Indian consulate and have emails from them mentioning that they REQUIRE a US Passport number in form) and without that they won't accept my form.

US Govt does not mandate every american to own a US Passport. How can Indian govt force me to have one ? Does anyone know if I can sue them in a civil court for asking so ?
 
Here's another problem. I became a USC a month ago. However, my travel needs are limited at this time and I don't intend to apply for a US passport for next year or so.

However, the application for Surrender Certificate mandates having a US passport number ( I talked with NYC and Houston Indian consulate and have emails from them mentioning that they REQUIRE a US Passport number in form) and without that they won't accept my form.

US Govt does not mandate every american to own a US Passport. How can Indian govt force me to have one ? Does anyone know if I can sue them in a civil court for asking so ?

I agree that GOI should not create rules, and make them effective retroactive. However I have to disagree with you on this one.
OCI is nothing more than a life long visa, and all country's have a right to demand a valid current passport to issue you a visa. Also to offer any counsular services, such as SC they have a right to demand your current passport since you are dealing with a foreign government.
 
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Harvy,
Appreciate your inputs and agree to every word you said......However, I do NOT intend to apply for OCI right now......Bringing my parents here in US soon and rest of my family is already here and will have almost no ties to India, at least anytime soon.

Per GOI rules, I simply ONLY intend to cancel my passport and receive a Surrender Certificate to avoid to $ 250 penalty for not doing so within 3 months of becoming an USC....Now, you tell me Harvy, isn't GOI pushing the rules to enforce me to get a US Passport under 3 months.

I am sure they will come charging at me for that $ 250 when I decide to apply for OCI in say, 2012 just cuz I don't have the SC already.

I agree that GOI should not create rules, and make them effective retroactive. However I have to disagree with you on this one.
OCI is nothing more than a life long visa, and all country's have a right to demand a valid current passport to issue you a visa. Also to offer any counsular services, such as SC they have a right to demand your current passport since you are dealing with a foreign government.
 
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