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I firmly believe ..

that outsourcing in the long run is detrimental for Indian self confidence, self reliance and the overall economy ...

at the risk of repeating myself... case in point: Malaysia... manufacturing was outsourced there in the 70s and early 80s... until such time when the workers started demanding more salaries and outsourcing was no longer viable... the outsources moved out ... and as a result we saw the great asian currency crisis of 1996 (or was it 1997) ...

The outsourcing fad (yes it is a fad as much as gold rush) ... is due to the disparity in exchange rates... which are artificial... if the Indian Rupee becomes freely convertible... will these companies be as willing to outsource?

Fat Chance
 
In Malaysia, it was a totally different reason why the economy faltered. Look at Taiwan and to that matter South Korea, they all prospered because of outsourcing of the manufacturing. Also it is foolish to say that Malaysia lost in the long run because if you compare what Malaysia was before the outsourcing and what Malaysia was after the asian currency crisis, it was much more developed than before.
 
Sairam


I absoultely agree that service outsourcing is not an economic answer in the long run - the export industry is too much dependent on US or other countries and they can pull the carpet at any time they will get a better deal . I am sure that is not what the Indian CEO's have in their mind at this point- but the Government should.

On the flip side the infrastructure created by outsourcing can be an asset . Most companies like Microsoft , Oracle and IBM are moving their core software development to India and it may not be as easy to pull out as in a call centre. And the world is just sensing the biggest resourse India has, which is human resource - only cheaper rates may be very hard to replace that. My feeling is Indian economy is secured in the forseeable future - and thats more than probably we are willing to think at this point. After all - we may be heat by an asteroid tomorrow :)
 
frantic

FYI ...Malaysia is NOT better than before the currency crisis... things are bad... (if not the same) ... they run a risk of being vulnerable to fundamentalism because of that ....

abhi,

On the flip side the infrastructure created by outsourcing can be an asset . Most companies like Microsoft , Oracle and IBM are moving their core software development to India

Well ... I dont believe that at all .. Gates, Elison and Palmisano are all too clever to do that ... it will defintely be totally non-core peripheral code work that will be outsourced... I am ready to wager on that
 
Re: patienceGC,

Originally posted by sairam1
I dont buy the stuff about "You cannot expect people to pay the same rate that they pay here" .... Why, pray why, cannot the person be paid, if the job that is being done is exactly the same...

Why do we have to stoop to such levels....

Cheers again
Click to expand...

Because they dont pay the doctors what you pay doctors over here...

Because you can eat the same food that u get here for 1/10ths of the price...

Because you can get an education at a fraction of the price...

When you have to pay the "American price" for those things, you can get an American salary. Of course no one stops you from getting an Indian job with an Indian salary!
 
Outsourcing : Opponents Vs Supporters

I see the battle between anti-outsourcing guys and pro-outsourcing guys in this forum as a debate between people who tend to resist change vs people who accept changes. I am against outsourcing (so i believe a lot of people) for the following reasons :
1) O/S results in job losses here. I am an American worker and why the hell should i not be worried about losing my job because it is shipped out of this country ? How can i take pleasure in the fact that the jobs are shipped to my mother India ? I certainly love my country, but it's not the question of whether you love India or not. It's the question of whether you are going to like your job going to some one else for the simple reason that the other guy lives in India ? This is what outsourcing is. What is your answer for this ? Do you want me to goback to India to have job
(supposing that it has become very difficult to get job here becuase of outsourcing) ? I will ask you guys(pro outsourcing guys) to do that before telling any one to do it.
2) Regarding suggestions that one should be COMPETETIVE and try to get another job if they lose job : Don't you guys feel painful to keep losing job every too often and keep looking for another job, keep studying for whole life, keep moving from place to place,
keep staying ahead of others ? And what does it mean when you say, you have to be competetive ? By saying so you are supporting the "Survival of the fittest" theory. Then there is nothing wrong in America attacking all the countries in the world.
Slavery, Imperialism are all justified for you. Why do we have police,laws, constitution etc ? Why do we need government protection ? It is because human beings want order in their life. We don't want insecurity and instability in our lives. This is the precise reason i oppose Outsourcing.
I don't think only losers and morons will oppose outsourcing. People who oppose O/S are as sane as the proponents of O/S and very competetive people will aslo oppose O/S because of the above factors. I find that most of the people who support O/S do not take a deeper look into the issue. That's why we see people saying such silly silly and meaningless things like "If you lose your job, go and look for some other job", "Stay COMPETITIVE", "Accept change" etc. People should remember that we (the opponents of O/S) are worried about O/S because it will take away vast majority of the jobs from this country and it will be extremely difficult to get a job. Just watch out. If nothing is done to halt outsourcing (atleast attempt to reduce it), then every one of us will lose our current jobs and only a very few of us will find another job. BTW, who told you that you need competetiveness to get a job in America ? There are other factors (luck, connections, skillset, geography) which play more important role here.
 
Re: patienceGC,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sairam1
I dont buy the stuff about "You cannot expect people to pay the same rate that they pay here" .... Why, pray why, cannot the person be paid, if the job that is being done is exactly the same...

Why do we have to stoop to such levels....

Cheers again
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Because they dont pay the doctors what you pay doctors over here...
**** Don't be so sure. You basically get what you pay for. My personal experience is that you pay roughly the same and as long as we are employed here or there.. you should not have to pay doctors a big deal anyway... ****


Because you can eat the same food that u get here for 1/10ths of the price...
*** Now this is really a joke... Food actually costs more in India****


Because you can get an education at a fraction of the price...

***** whose education are you talking about... if it is Kids... then it is free here... and if it is college going kids... they have a flexibility to borrow at throw away interest rates... and then work to pay for the rest ... most Asian Indian kids are on a scholarship anyway****


When you have to pay the "American price" for those things, you can get an American salary. Of course no one stops you from getting an Indian job with an Indian salary!
****
This is where the problem starts... you get paid "Indian" Salary because of outsourcing.... but you have to do "American" work and end up apying near "American prices" to be able to maintain a decent life style....
****

__________________
My advice is my own opinion.I am not a lawyer but I could be a good one cuz I pretend to know what I am talking about.
RD 10/18/01 ND:12/1/01 FP 1/30/02
AD 4/29/03 Plastic : 06/27/03
 
outsourcing

I would like to add that , i am not going to cry all the time, blaming O/S. As a sane person i know what to do. I don't think people who oppose O/S will not learn new skills or stay competetive or will not try to find new job . How can any person think like this ? That's why i said before that people who are supporting O/S are blindly criticizing the opponents without looking at the destabilising effects of outsourcing.

Just because you are prepared for the disaster does not mean that you don't try to prevent the disaster.
 
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First,
Not all tall blond girls have long nails and emplty heads. I have a Ph.D. and a job that pays over 100k.
Second,
Outsourcing to India and China can't be compared to Malaysia or any other country as their populations combined exceed the rest of the humankind, so the labor pool and technological potential will be good for millions of years to come.
Third,
If you are so concerned about losing your job find something in a Biomed or Military sector and get a hardware/biomed engineering, marketing or medical degree. Those are staying here for a few dozens of years.
Fourth,
I am not Indian but hate to see you guys arguing about and humiliating your motherland like that.
 
Udacha6,

outsourcing or not outsourcing ...

regarding your fourth point about "arguing and humiliating" .... why do you think we (Indians) were ruled by the British for almost 4 centuries? It is because we have NO unity and are so ready to jump up and make flippant statements without thinking things through.
 
udacha6

where did you get that we are humiliating our motherland... well, we are not... all we are discussing is if O/s is good or not...

I firmly belive that O/S is not good for India... because the access to cheap labor will ruin the economy of the country providing the cheap labor in the long run ... US lost jobs by moving manufacturing to Mexico... but Mexico did not gain ... much... they are gogin through the same problems just as they had before... and will probably face worse if US pulls the carpet from under their feet and move the manufacturing to Brazil ... for example

As several people pointed out... it is good in the short term ... I agree... but since it is a knowledge based industry... gains shd only be considered in the long term.... there is no such thing as a short term benefit in a knowledge based industry... a short term gain in a knowledge based industry is a sure recipe for a long term loss ... ponder over this...
 
Live American way

OutSourcing is not a new concept to Americans. America always takes the advantage of cheap labor. Thatz how Countries like China, Taiwan etc grew. In 1980s America started Outsourcing Manufacturing Industry to these countries.

Now American Companies saw India's strength and potential for Software Industry. So, they are taking advantage.


Better guys know that Outsourcing is not new concept. It is all part of Imperialism.
 
Frankly I don't see how you can unite 1.5B people who don't even speak the same language. The unificaiton spirit must come from within, based on national pride and self-respect.
I can name a few countries (like China, Russia) that were affected by very cruel and inhumane regimes but I don't see them hating their countries like that.
 
My take........

Before we opiniate (sitting here in USA) whether O/S is good or bad, let's look at it from the persective of those who are getting these O/S jobs in India (for example). to them , this is just another job working for a foreign company. They probably don't or won't want to care if it was in lieu of someone's lost job in USA (for example).

Despite current tough economic and job times worldwide, Indian job market has been quite well insulated and neutral. More O/S jobs coming to India is going to be beneficial to Indian people only.
 
Sairam1

You compare existing historical examples of outsourcing in other countries to India. Like I said before with Mexico, Malaysia or any other country can't even get close to the human potential that your country has. As a result the Indian salaries can never be high as there'll always be enough people to replace those that protest low incomes. I've read that is the case in China. The competition for a good spot is so high that no one ever complains about anything and just keeps on working. So the short-term savings are not so short.
 
sairam1

I think you are an IDIOT! You have no sense of economics or how nations differ. You are a very selfish hypocrite. You want to be a capitalist but expect everyone else to behave like a communist! If you are so against "american exploitation" why dont you go back and do traditional farming?
 
Jobs are only for Indians!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Don't assume that I'm talking to Asian Indians, I mean jobs are only for American Indians who are the real Native Americans). Others will be evacuated to their(or their family's) country of origin.

I'm sure outsouring benefits Indian economy but at the same time we won't see the economic growth to the extent of China. The manufacturing industry invested lot in China so they can't pull out of China within short term but software industry can wrap up the operation in India quite easily. Even Indian company like Infosys mentioned that they can move most of their consultants outside India immediately with in very short notice when they were questioned about their disaster recovery plan.

Article about Outsouring in Time Magazine
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/a...-471198,00.html
 
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what about labor unions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The most important thing that we are missing in this entire debate is the need for "strong labor unions". That is the only way to go about protecting our jobs.

Most of the job related problem will be taken care of, if we can help reduce this sick 'hiring and firing' policy of the companies. It is very important for all of us to feel safe and secure in our jobs...........which none of the companies here provide you. You take up a job today, buy a house tomorrow and your job is dicy the very next day!!!:confused:

Who likes to live in so much uncertainity, no matter how talented or competitive or confident you are. I strongly feel the need for a labor union............and labor unions are not country bound, it is always good to work towards a strong labor union in every damn company, for your own interest and peace of mind.
 
Hi Rene2ram,

Eventhough Labor unions may help the employees having stable jobs, these may over a period of time may result in lazy workforce due to too much of Job security and hence resulting in inefficient and loss making companies.

I support some kind of Labor law which does not allow layoff of employees whose experience with the company is less than say five years.

This will prevent companies to hire say 10000 workforce in one year and layoff 11000 workforce in the following year.

In some cases companies may exploit by having employees work more than the stipulated number of hours without paying overtime. But workforce with job insecurity may not necessarily mean efficient one. A workforce with some job security will go a long way in improving the morale of the employees and thereby increasing efficiency of the company.

Again the company should retain the right to fire an employee on a case by case basis if the conduct of the employee is not acceptable.

Thanks
 
Re: udacha6

O/S is good for the shareholders of American Corporates ... and the oh-so-good so-called torch bearers of Indian IT industry ... it will immediately affect the employees of American Corporates and over a period of time devastate the potential of the much touted Indian man-power .....

and once that becomes unaffordable over a period of time these very same corporates will start outsourcing IT from china (in 10 years .. ie assuming Indian companie have not sub-contracted the work to China already...
 
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