Indian citizen baby born in US - have others had this situation?

T

tamtom

Registered Users (C)
We are looking for other people in the same situation as ourselves to join together and discuss the following problem.

We have a baby daughter recently born in the US. One parent is an Indian citizen. So, the baby is entitled to Indian citizenship by descent and we have got her an Indian passport.

Now we want to travel to India with our baby. The problem is the US still considers her a US citizen (because of her birth in the US), and so US will ask us to get her a US passport for departure from and entry to the US. They don't pay any attention to the fact that she is an Indian citizen.

If we do get her a US passport, this will make her lose Indian citizenship. Then it will be very difficult for her to reaquire Indian citizenship during her childhood, because to do so, she will have to renounce US citizenship and US will only recognize that after she is of mature age.

Does anyone else have experience with this problem? If so, please reply to us (either on the forum or by sending us a private message) so we can share our experiences and information.

Thanks,

Tamtom
 
do not understand

Are you visiting India, meaning you intend to come back to USA? Where do you intend to stay permanently?

Also, I do not think US Immigration officers will care if she has an Indian citizenship, as long as she has legal status to travel and return back to USA.

Fact is, depending on your legal status, does she have valid legal status, if she has Indian citizenship? What have you done to indicate her valid legal status?

As long as she has legal status which allows her to travel outside the USA, you should be fine.

BTW, another option is that, you take the US citizenship for her and travel to India on an Indian visa for your child. India has liberal laws to allow people of Indian descent to stay for longer periods (i.e. > 180 days).

Regards
GCStrat :)
 
rmzm said:
Why complicate situation ? Get US passport for the baby and apply for Indian citizenship. Dual citizenship is allowed now.

http://www.indiacgny.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=384
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You are referring to OCI, which is not actually Indian citizenship. An OCI is a kind of permanent resident's visa placed in a foreign passport. We want her to keep full Indian citizenship.

Indeed, the source you site above states the following:

>>4. Please note that OCI is not, repeat not Dual Citizenship.

Thanks,

Tamtom
 
gcstrat said:
Fact is, depending on your legal status, does she have valid legal status, if she has Indian citizenship? What have you done to indicate her valid legal status?
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The US will refuse to grant her any sort of visa status whatsoever, on the grounds that they consider her a US citizen. They also will not allow us as parents to renounce her US citizenship on her behalf. Moreover, she won't be able to do it herself for many years. This is the whole problem.

gcstrat said:
BTW, another option is that, you take the US citizenship for her and travel to India on an Indian visa for your child. India has liberal laws to allow people of Indian descent to stay for longer periods (i.e. > 180 days).

Regards
GCStrat :)
Click to expand...

Yes, we can renounce her Indian citizenship. But what will we tell her when she grows up? That we gave up her Indian citizenship for her, because it was too much hassle to keep it?
 
coolamit said:
I am keen to see how you worked it out.. please inform me on this forum or email me at contactamitabh@gmail.com
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I've sent the email. I'm also taking private messages and emails via this forum.

We're still in the process of trying to work it out. In a nutshell, the current status is the Indian authorities we spoke to are in denial about it, while the US authorities admit this is a problem but blame it on India ;-)

Anyone else who is affected by this, please get in touch!

Tamtom
 
US born need indian passport

Hi,

I found out the following while trying to get information on this issue.

1. A US born child is a US citizen. Nothing can change this until the child is 18 years old.

2. Any US citizen (even if holding dual citizenship) must use US passport to leave/reenter USA. Only exception is that a US born child (to non-US citizen parents) who is less than 12 years of age and whose name is entered in his/her mother's non-US passport can leave/reenter USA if he/she has a valid birth certificate. However, many airlines might not be aware of this and might not let the child board the flight to USA (Someone in a newsgroup posted that Air India honoured this rule, while Lufthansa did not).

3. Children born to Indian parents in USA can get Indian passport and Indian birth certificate through Indian consulate. Child will be considered Indian citizen.

4. Cannot get any other passport while having a Indian passport.

All the above rules kind of push all indian parents to get US passport and PIO/OCI. But we want to get Indian citizenship, if there is a way.

Tomtam, please let me know how you are handling the situation (PM or email).
 
Munna Kalahan said:
2. Any US citizen (even if holding dual citizenship) must use US passport to leave/reenter USA. Only exception is that a US born child (to non-US citizen parents) who is less than 12 years of age and whose name is entered in his/her mother's non-US passport can leave/reenter USA if he/she has a valid birth certificate. However, many airlines might not be aware of this and might not let the child board the flight to USA (Someone in a newsgroup posted that Air India honoured this rule, while Lufthansa did not).
Click to expand...

Two points about the above.
First, India is not issuing new passports with child in parent's passport anymore. Each person must get a separate passport. Their stated reason is some countries don't accept child in parent's passport for visa issuance.

Second, that is not the ONLY exception. A longer list of exceptions is given in 22 CFR 53.2 (for example, see http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/cfr/title22/part53.html#53.2 for details).

Munna Kalahan said:
Tomtam, please let me know how you are handling the situation (PM or email).
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Munna Kalahan, your profile is not set to accept PM or email. Please click on the link to my profile to send me a PM or email.

Hope this helps,

Tamtom
 
Please people, there is no dual citizenship yet.

http://www.indiacgny.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=384

Please read point 4.

Please note that OCI is not, repeat not Dual Citizenship. The Constitution of India does not permit the facility of holding Indian Citizenship simultaneously with a foreign citizenship. The OCI holder would therefore not be eligible for the following rights in India: (i) Right to vote; (ii) Right to hold constitutional office (i.e. parliament, courts, cabinet posts, etc.); and (iii) Right to hold posts in government services sector.
 
Oh my god, never thought of this problem. We are having our first one in next couple of weeks. Cannot travel to India now. We are planning to move back to India next year for good. Thought giving up US citizenship should be very easy.
 
What is being missed before the 18th birthday?

The OCI faciliates almost all rights other that occupying Govt. jobs, owning agricultural properties, going to restricted areas, & voting. Most of these (except owning agricultural properties) require one to be at least 18 years.

So, I am missing something here. For a child born in the US:
- obtain a US PP
- obtain OCI
After 18 years in India, gain Indian Citizenship and relinqust US.

Who knows by then there may be a true Dual Citizenship. It is too far to contemplate. But with OCI a child will be able to do everything - namely grow & learn!
 
sv2707 said:
The OCI faciliates almost all rights other that occupying Govt. jobs, owning agricultural properties, going to restricted areas, & voting. Most of these (except owning agricultural properties) require one to be at least 18 years.

So, I am missing something here. For a child born in the US:
- obtain a US PP
- obtain OCI
After 18 years in India, gain Indian Citizenship and relinqust US.

Who knows by then there may be a true Dual Citizenship. It is too far to contemplate. But with OCI a child will be able to do everything - namely grow & learn!
Click to expand...

That a very good point.
And seems that the only option.

neo
 
Similar situation

Hi,

We are also in a similar situation. My wife is due to deliver in december and we are not sure whether she should be delivering in India or US. We are here on H1 and are planning to go back to India after 2 years. If we decide to have the baby deliered in India, whe will have to travel to India in her early 7th month.

If we plan the delivery to be in US, we are worried if our child would be treated as NRI once we go back to India, and enroll him/her in a school and college after that. I am not worried about what citizenship he would get initiallly as he will get an option to choose when he is 18.

Please let me know if you have any good suggestions.

Thanks in advance..
 
gcby2020 said:
Oh my god, never thought of this problem. We are having our first one in next couple of weeks. Cannot travel to India now. We are planning to move back to India next year for good. Thought giving up US citizenship should be very easy.
Click to expand...

No, in fact it is very difficult for a minor child to give up US citizenship. They require the child pass an interview by a US State Dept. official to prove the child fully understands what it means. Unless your child is highly precocious, you can forget about it until the child is at least a teen.

--Tamtom
 
sv2707 said:
The OCI faciliates almost all rights other that occupying Govt. jobs, owning agricultural properties, going to restricted areas, & voting. Most of these (except owning agricultural properties) require one to be at least 18 years.

So, I am missing something here. For a child born in the US:
- obtain a US PP
- obtain OCI
After 18 years in India, gain Indian Citizenship and relinqust US.

Who knows by then there may be a true Dual Citizenship. It is too far to contemplate. But with OCI a child will be able to do everything - namely grow & learn!
Click to expand...

US passport + OCI is a status which says US is primary and India is secondary. That's why the OCI holders receive visas from India in their US passports, instead of receiving Indian passports. We think our baby's Indian status should be second to none, so we still have no plans of giving up her Indian citizenship voluntarily.

As for practical effects, obviously an Indian citizen has a lot more legal protections in India than a foreigner with OCI status. What's the recourse if the OCI visa is cancelled? What's the recourse if some future Indian government decides the OCI program is not to India's advantage, and cancels them all?

Obviously it's a very personal choice, and some people will find US passport + OCI is good for them. But that's not the choice we prefer. And even if we did consider that choice, we wouldn't want the main reason for giving up her Indian citizenship to be the fact that it's easier that way to travel to India!

--Tamtom
 
sambasivarao_b said:
Hi,

If we plan the delivery to be in US, we are worried if our child would be treated as NRI once we go back to India, and enroll him/her in a school and college after that. I am not worried about what citizenship he would get initiallly as he will get an option to choose when he is 18.
Click to expand...

The child won't be treated as an NRI because he is not an NRI - he is a U.S. citizen.
 
tamtom said:
What's the recourse if the OCI visa is cancelled? What's the recourse if some future Indian government decides the OCI program is not to India's advantage, and cancels them all?

Obviously it's a very personal choice, and some people will find US passport + OCI is good for them. But that's not the choice we prefer. And even if we did consider that choice, we wouldn't want the main reason for giving up her Indian citizenship to be the fact that it's easier that way to travel to India!

--Tamtom
Click to expand...


The future is an unknown. You can only base you plans on the facts on the ground. The fact is that an OCI by law gives almost the same protection. Future governments of a democratic country would be careful to change laws. In any case it would be temporary and the child has the option at 18. Having options in MHO are always better. Who knows what citizenship would be chosen.

My experience has been that many I know are very bitter that they lost the opportunity of having USC/GC because their parents returned to India before they were born. However, this may be mute point, as I fully expect India to the shining becon on top of the hill in 20 years leading the world in many many areas of excellence.
 
sv2707 said:
The future is an unknown. You can only base you plans on the facts on the ground. The fact is that an OCI by law gives almost the same protection. Future governments of a democratic country would be careful to change laws. In any case it would be temporary and the child has the option at 18. Having options in MHO are always better. Who knows what citizenship would be chosen.
Click to expand...

Countries change their visa programs all the time. When the tech industry expands, the US raises the visa quotas, and when it contracts, it lowers them. Similarly, for example, if some future Indian leader thinks the OCI's are taking away good jobs from Indian citizens, there's no reason to assume they won't restrict the OCI program in some way.

As for options, the child currently is an Indian citizen and has the option to take a US passport anytime. If the child gets a US passport, it will become almost impossible to get rid of US citizenship during the next 18 years and so will lose the option of Indian citizenship at least until then. That's based on long-standing laws of both countries that have a much longer history than the OCI program.

My experience has been that many I know are very bitter that they lost the opportunity of having USC/GC because their parents returned to India before they were born. However, this may be mute point, as I fully expect India to the shining becon on top of the hill in 20 years leading the world in many many areas of excellence.
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Exactly. We are concered about the reverse case, that our child will lose important rights if we carelessly give up her Indian citizenship by taking a US passport for a trip to India.

--Tamtom
 
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