India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

[sg_orl]

In a couple of weeks OCI should be available from the NY consulate.But an OIC takes around 8 weeks to process.So if there is a pressing need for you to go,you'll need to take a visa anyways.
It's too bad about the PIO card but make your own enquiries.Saying that PIO card is no longer available may just have been a gimmick for me to shell out $275 instead of getting a cheaper PIO card for my daughter.

I would NOT be sure how long they may take to issue an OCI. It can easily be longer than 8 weeks. I would be reluctant to believe what advertise on the time frames. Indian consulates take 2+ weeks and mailing time 2-3 days each) to issue a tourist visa by mail. Every year, the process slows down at this time of year and in early summer. With OCI, there may even be a backlog and starup glitches, so it may be a while before they reach the 8 weeks turn around.

 

[WannaBringParents]

Thanks Mangal & sg_orl.

We are planning to visit India, in Spring'06. If PIO/OCI is made available at that time, what would be wise/economical to apply for my child who is a U.S citizen and is 4 years old?

If PIO/OCI is still not made available at that time, I guess the only option would be to apply for a visa. I see that some of you have mentioned that OCI is actually PIO v.2 - Does OCI grant more privileges to Desis than a PIO card?

 

[PIO1]

Thanks Mangal & sg_orl.

We are planning to visit India, in Spring'06. If PIO/OCI is made available at that time, what would be wise/economical to apply for my child who is a U.S citizen and is 4 years old?

If PIO/OCI is still not made available at that time, I guess the only option would be to apply for a visa. I see that some of you have mentioned that OCI is actually PIO v.2 - Does OCI grant more privileges to Desis than a PIO card?

Desigal,

Without wanting to advertise I was unable to put up a summary here so I put it on my site. OCI

OCI is marginally better than PIO primarily because of lack of expiry date. If you are going after March, check out this forum sometime after PBD (11 Jan) and see if anyone has got their card - if they have, then I really think OCI is a fantastic visa especially for Kids. Otherwise go for a short term visa.

 

[PIO1]

Well PIO and OCI are very recent things, people have always taken the tourist visa to visit India after they become citizens US or any other another country. A lot of people will still do that as not everyone has a need to stay in India for a long time, hold properties or take up employment. From US, 10 yr. tourist visa at $150 is good enough for a lot of people. There are also short term visas vailable at much less cost.

I have said it before that Indian bureaucrats and politician work under no vision and goals in mind. In my opinion, there should a true dual-citizenship. Visa-free entry for tourists from certain countries, and may be visa on arrival for some nationals. Then see the effect on the economic development.

So many countries in the SE asia are already doing this. Indian babus have mastered the art of not delivering anything much and keep promising the moon. They just want to keep the babus busy processing visa and stamping the passports! That gives them the perks and foreign posting, and above all the ultimate control!

India will have several versions of PIO's/OCI (which is a PIO v.2.0) before they will even contemplate a true dual-citizenship. Hey, they can keep collecting $$, keep babus busy and happy, and maintain control.

I think the joke is going to be on us when we all apply for an OCI, many who waited 14+ months, only to have it knocked out by the Supreme Court when the first case comes up!

So given PIO is being phased out, maybe the 10 year visa is not such a bad thing?

 

[basis]

Thanks Mangal & sg_orl.

We are planning to visit India, in Spring'06. If PIO/OCI is made available at that time, what would be wise/economical to apply for my child who is a U.S citizen and is 4 years old?

If PIO/OCI is still not made available at that time, I guess the only option would be to apply for a visa. I see that some of you have mentioned that OCI is actually PIO v.2 - Does OCI grant more privileges to Desis than a PIO card?

PIO can be obtained even now. It has been operational since many years now. It is OIC which still has not become operational

 

[mangal969]

Desigal,

Without wanting to advertise I was unable to put up a summary here so I put it on my site. OCI

OCI is marginally better than PIO primarily because of lack of expiry date. If you are going after March, check out this forum sometime after PBD (11 Jan) and see if anyone has got their card - if they have, then I really think OCI is a fantastic visa especially for Kids. Otherwise go for a short term visa.

Desigal,
PIO and OIC are two seperate entities-You'll find the differences plastered all over this forum.In a nutshell,OIC is better than PIO because :
a.cheaper-It is $275 v/s $310 for a PIO.However for children a PIO card costs $155.
b.validity-lifelong v/s PIO's 15 years
c.No need to register if you stay longer than 180 days in a visit (This provision exists if you go on a PIO/Visa)

There are other benefits as well in terms of acquisition of property etc.

You have till spring so i guess you can afford to wait a bit.OIC has been launched by the government recently and the first card is going to be issued in January.Maybe it's worth your while to wait if you're interested.

About applying for OIC for your daughter I would recommend it if:
a.your daughter is likely to be visiting india quite frequently
b.your daughter may go there for studies
c.you want to spend $275 once and for all instead of the visa cost everytime
d.you want to keep some savings (investment) for your daughter in India
e.You have a very long term plan to return to India

even if any one of the following apply go ahead for an OIC for your daughter.Otherwise better to go the visa route.

 

[mangal969]

I think the joke is going to be on us when we all apply for an OCI, many who waited 14+ months, only to have it knocked out by the Supreme Court when the first case comes up!

So given PIO is being phased out, maybe the 10 year visa is not such a bad thing?

I dont think the Supreme court would throw out OCI.The judges would be quick to see that OCI in no way offers Indian nationality to anyone (BTW Why would anyone waste their money going to the supreme court to have OIC removed ?)

About PIO being phased out right now it sounds a bit fishy.Maybe the embassy official was trying to discourage me from applying for a PIO because an OIC would mean more money.People are best to make their own inquiries.But if anyone wants to apply for a PIO do it soon.I am pretty sure the phasing out will occur sooner rather than later (if not already in effect).
10 year visa is OK if you want to just visit and each visit is going to be less than 6 months.But you are a foreigner for all legal and financial purposes.
Even on sheer finance I would rather go for an OCI because I'll "recover" the cost in the term of 2x10 year visa terms and whatever i save in registration costs for a long term stay.

 

[mangal969]

An interesting titbit of info-as per the Indian PM "dual citizenship" has been "operational" since Nov 14th !!!

http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1565560,00050003.htm

Left hand.....right hand.....kidneys.....Left foot...whack !

 

[basis]

An interesting titbit of info-as per the Indian PM "dual citizenship" has been "operational" since Nov 14th !!!

http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1565560,00050003.htm[/url[/QUOTE] disgusting

 

[sg_orl]

Desigal,
PIO and OIC are two seperate entities-You'll find the differences plastered all over this forum.In a nutshell,OIC is better than PIO because :
a.cheaper-It is $275 v/s $310 for a PIO.However for children a PIO card costs $155.
b.validity-lifelong v/s PIO's 15 years
c.No need to register if you stay longer than 180 days in a visit (This provision exists if you go on a PIO/Visa)

There are other benefits as well in terms of acquisition of property etc.

You have till spring so i guess you can afford to wait a bit.OIC has been launched by the government recently and the first card is going to be issued in January.Maybe it's worth your while to wait if you're interested.

About applying for OIC for your daughter I would recommend it if:
a.your daughter is likely to be visiting india quite frequently
b.your daughter may go there for studies
c.you want to spend $275 once and for all instead of the visa cost everytime
d.you want to keep some savings (investment) for your daughter in India
e.You have a very long term plan to return to India

even if any one of the following apply go ahead for an OIC for your daughter.Otherwise better to go the visa route.

There are a couple of more items to keep in mind. Although it's a gray area, with OCI status you may loose the right of consular protection if there is ever a need. Second, if you plan to get a job that requires security clearance in the US, OCI would most likely create a problem. Dual-citizenship is a no-no for the security clearances.

 

[Hotdiggety]

There are a couple of more items to keep in mind. Although it's a gray area, with OCI status you may loose the right of consular protection if there is ever a need. Second, if you plan to get a job that requires security clearance in the US, OCI would most likely create a problem. Dual-citizenship is a no-no for the security clearances.

OCI is NOT, repeat NOT, dual citizenship. It is a visa. Hence neither of the items you refer to should be a concern. This is not a grey area.

 

[PIO1]

OCI is NOT, repeat NOT, dual citizenship. It is a visa. Hence neither of the items you refer to should be a concern. This is not a grey area.

While there is no doubt to those who have studied the legislation and context that OCI is not citizenship - The US State department's web site says there is no clarity on the nationality of an OCI holder, and the UK home office web site has simply got it wrong. We should write to the US and UK to get them to clarify the status once and for all so the missinformation they created stops!

 

[PIO1]

I dont think the Supreme court would throw out OCI.The judges would be quick to see that OCI in no way offers Indian nationality to anyone (BTW Why would anyone waste their money going to the supreme court to have OIC removed ?)

About PIO being phased out right now it sounds a bit fishy...

It would be wrong for the consulates to phase out PIO if it is still valid under law, I guess in the same way it was wrong for the govt to significantly delay implementation of OCI once legislatively passed in 2003 (interesting that they expect you to follow new tax rules the day legislation is effective, but the same rule doesn't apply to them?).

Anyway - regarding Supreme Court, you are correct, and anyway they generally would not be in any rush to hear a case. Until a high profile OCI runs for parliament (as was the case with alleged Italian citizen Rajeev Gandhi), or is challenged over some high profile business dealing. But there are a number of places that the legislation implies considerable ambiguity that OCI is a form of citizenship, and use of the word "citizenship" in the title doesn't help our court-free hopes. Worse than not going to court is the uncertainty that OCIs will be faced with when considering their tenuous investment in assets that is guaranteed by an ambiguous law but not the constitution.

I don't think there has been a major case challenging the possibly unconstitutional discrimination that Indian Citizen NRIs face either. So what do the NRIs do? Go to court and fight? No - they just invest in their resident countries instead. So if in five years you are wondering why OCI implementation has not brought in significant investment, here is your answer.

 

[mangal969]

There are a couple of more items to keep in mind. Although it's a gray area, with OCI status you may loose the right of consular protection if there is ever a need. Second, if you plan to get a job that requires security clearance in the US, OCI would most likely create a problem. Dual-citizenship is a no-no for the security clearances.

How can the US deny it's citizen in India consular protection when that citizens has left the US with his US passport ,entered India on a Visa and will eventually re-enter the US with his US passport ? Technically then there would be no such thing as consular protection because then they can deny somone who is in India on a 6 month visitor visa on the same grounds !

OCI is nothing but PIO v2.Did the US state dept dept deny consular protection to those who had PIO cards ? No !

I'm sure when the Indian embassy in Washington gets the OCI info and passes it on to the US government,the US will clarify that OCI does not qualify as dual citizenship.Because a visa and an identity card cannot make you a national.

 

[g10783]

Hi,

I don't think that is true, I have applied for the PIO card in Washington D.C. I have personally visited the embassy and submitted my application. They took my Indian and American Passports and charged $310 + $15 (for Express Mail). I was told that it will take 3 weeks to get my passport.

Thanks.

 

[rbcool]

OCI online registration errors

Has anyone successfully registered online for OCI www.mha.nic.in?
I could not register as I am getting error on PIO card field "Invalid characters". My PIO card no starts with P followed by numerics. I tried numeric part only and still getting the same error. Please share your experiences.

 

[PIO1]

Has anyone successfully registered online for OCI www.mha.nic.in?
I could not register as I am getting error on PIO card field "Invalid characters". My PIO card no starts with P followed by numerics. I tried numeric part only and still getting the same error. Please share your experiences.

The web site is a ploy to keep you busy while they actually work out how to get the process working.

14 months ago I filled in a form and they are still working out what to do with it.

I'm only half serious. I think.

The web site application only goes half way, you still need to submit relevant documents in physical copy. I can't see any advantage in doing the web thing first, because it is one more thing they need to do to process your application (reconcile the hard copy with the system version,a nd update status). You would be better off doing the whole thing manually. They might give you an application status, but is probably going to go from "processing" to "complete" with nothing in between - which is not going to help. You can bet there is no complex system behind it - only one more bit of red tape which will confuse the consulate. In short - go for the old paper version.

 

[qwert97]

Oci

Has anyone successfully registered online for OCI www.mha.nic.in?
I could not register as I am getting error on PIO card field "Invalid characters". My PIO card no starts with P followed by numerics. I tried numeric part only and still getting the same error. Please share your experiences.

I would not even dream of registering online. They ask you a lot of personal information and do you trust them to protect this information? The server where they host this application is not a secure server so your personal information is not encrypted and protected and can be viewed by anyone. Dont forget that you provide your name,address, date of birth, passport numbers and a lot of sensitive information. God only knows where the email is routed and who looks at the information submitted through website.

 

[qwert97]

Oic

I actually got a reply from the Prime Ministers office:


From: "Muthu Kumar" <suggestpmo@pmo.nic.in>
Subject: Re: PMO Web Site Feedback, coming through NIC Web Server
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 13:12:02 +0530

Dear Mr Sanjeev
,
The process for issue of dual citizenship cards has been started and
the first card is to issued by the PM in Jan during the PBD at
Hyderabad.
regards
Director Comm

 

[sg_orl]

OCI is NOT, repeat NOT, dual citizenship. It is a visa. Hence neither of the items you refer to should be a concern. This is not a grey area.

Security clearances also take into account if the person has very strong ties to a foreign country, and if the immediate family members live abroad. All I am trying to point out is think about these implications if they apply to you. OCI is in a way Indian green card with no residency requirement and expiration date.