India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

The India Dual Citizenship will be Operational:

  • In 2003

    Votes: 4 20.0%

  • In 2004

    Votes: 11 55.0%

  • Sometime after 2004

    Votes: 4 20.0%

  • I am skeptical if this will happen

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
San Fransisco

mangal969 said:
The Chicago embassy information is current.The San Francisco embassy has just put up what the MHA had previously put up in their FAQ's.They have no information about the new occurences as of 2nd December.Ditto for Washington embassy.New York embassy is stuck in 2003.
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Here is the c/p from Sanfransisco Website

The Overseas Indian Citizenship scheme is being introduced shortly and modalities are being worked out. Please DO NOT phone us in this regard.

Please DO NOT SEND applications/fees till the scheme is made operational.
 
mangal969 said:
When the procedure restarts submit copies of your families PIO cards along with the photographs and whatever extra documents are required.That way you are setting your self up for the refund.Persist with the consulate-do not run around writing letters to India unless the consulate gives you a definite no to the refund.
If you are by some stroke of bad luck refused a refund write to the MOIA.But keep this as a last resort.
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Thanks. Copies of our PIO Cards were already submitted together with the photographs last year at the time of OIC applications. We are now ready to surrender the PIO Cards if the Consulates agrees to do the refund.

I have already sent an e-mail to Ministry of Overseas Indians several days ago explaining my situation and requesting their intervention to see that a refund will be forthcoming!! Thanks once again.
 
mangal969 said:
People in UK beware !

http://dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1000259

This will surely re ignite the debate on whether OIC is really a dual citizenship.Perhaps some legal experts will comment for the Britons
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Unfortunately if you are a British citizen, and hold OCI, and you lose your British citizenship, you are no longer a OCI, and, you are in fact stateless. Where is your passport to enter India?

I don't think the Brits can make you stateless. If someone is about to have their citizenship revoked, I think they can renounce their dual citizenship and then they are safe. If you don't have any citizenship, where can they put you, the moon?
 
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PIO1 said:
Unfortunately if you are a British citizen, and hold OCI, and you lose your British citizenship, you are no longer a OCI, and, you are in fact stateless. Where is your passport to enter India?

I don't think the Brits can make you stateless. If someone is about to have their citizenship revoked, I think they can renounce their dual citizenship and then they are safe. If you don't have any citizenship, where can they put you, the moon?
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We all agreed that OCI is not exactly a Dual Citizenship. So, where is the question of British Government assuming OCI as Dual Citizenship for British Indians and then possibly stripping it off from them !
Would be interested to hear further comments in this matter. Thanks.
 
boggavarapu said:
We all agreed that OCI is not exactly a Dual Citizenship. So, where is the question of British Government assuming OCI as Dual Citizenship for British Indians and then possibly stripping it off from them !
Would be interested to hear further comments in this matter. Thanks.
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Please have a look at the link in this message on the other board -

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=4766&highlight=indian+citizenship+law

7.3 For the purposes of British nationality law, IOC is considered to be citizenship of another State. This will be relevant where British law requires the person to be stateless (as, for example, in Schedule 2 to the British Nationality Act 1981 or to have no citizenship or nationality apart from a qualifying form of British nationality (as, for example, in s.4B to the 1981 Act). In these cases, confirmation of non-acquisition of IOC should be sought where the applicant appears to satisfy the criteria in paragraph 7.2 above.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/in...licy_instructions/nis/chapter_14/annex_h.html
 
Keeping British citizenship

Hi

I am British by naturalisation and haven't given up the idea of going back to India. If I stay in India as an OIC and apply to become and Indian citizen all over again, I understand that I would have to give up my British citizenship. However, I found the following bit of information on the following the website. (Apologies for not knowing how to paste as a link)

http://www.britainusa.com/consular/dualnata.asp


Dual Nationality (Adults)

When the British Nationality Act 1948 came into effect on 1 January 1949, citizens of the United Kingdom and colonies who subsequently became naturalised citizens of other countries no longer automatically lost their British nationality. Since that date, citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies who became naturalised citizens of a foreign state retained their status as British subjects, citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies, unless they made a formal declaration of renunciation in front of a British Consul or other British official authorised to accept such declarations. A declaration made before a foreign official for the purpose of acquiring another nationality or for any other purpose did not affect the position in United Kingdom law. With the enactment of the new nationality law (British Nationality Act, 1981) which came into effect on 1 January 1983 the provisions for the recognition of dual nationality and the procedure for renunciation of British citizenship have been retained.

Although acquisition or use of US citizenship does not of itself jeopardise retention of British citizenship, and there is not objection on the part of British authorities to a dual citizen using a US passport, it should not be assumed that the reverse is also true. A US citizen voluntarily acquiring British citizenship may lose his US citizenship; and a dual citizen who makes use of his British citizenship in certain ways, for example joining HM Forces, taking an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty and in certain circumstances exercising other rights or privileges of British citizenship, may jeopardise his US citizenship. The US authorities expect dual citizens to travel out of and into United States territory only on US passports. British citizens who are also US citizens are therefore advised to consult the US State Department (or if overseas a US Consul) before taking any action which might be regarded as inconsistent with their status as US citizens.

A British citizen may return and resume residence in Britain at any time, regardless of being a dual national, provided that he has not made a formal declaration of renunciation of British citizenship as described in paragraph one above.Such persons may in British law exercise any right possessed generally by British citizens, but of course it is their own responsibility to ascertain from the appropriate US authorities what effect, if any, their action may have on their status as a citizen of that country.


My question is, does this mean that I can become an Indian citizen and then travel to Britain using my British passport or would I need to get a visa on my Indian passport to travel. In other words, can I have the best of both worlds? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Many thanks
 
kuniyil said:
Hi

I am British by naturalisation and haven't given up the idea of going back to India. If I stay in India as an OIC and apply to become and Indian citizen all over again, I understand that I would have to give up my British citizenship. However, I found the following bit of information on the following the website. (Apologies for not knowing how to paste as a link)

http://www.britainusa.com/consular/dualnata.asp


Dual Nationality (Adults)

When the British Nationality Act 1948 came into effect on 1 January 1949, citizens of the United Kingdom and colonies who subsequently became naturalised citizens of other countries no longer automatically lost their British nationality. Since that date, citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies who became naturalised citizens of a foreign state retained their status as British subjects, citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies, unless they made a formal declaration of renunciation in front of a British Consul or other British official authorised to accept such declarations. A declaration made before a foreign official for the purpose of acquiring another nationality or for any other purpose did not affect the position in United Kingdom law. With the enactment of the new nationality law (British Nationality Act, 1981) which came into effect on 1 January 1983 the provisions for the recognition of dual nationality and the procedure for renunciation of British citizenship have been retained.

Although acquisition or use of US citizenship does not of itself jeopardise retention of British citizenship, and there is not objection on the part of British authorities to a dual citizen using a US passport, it should not be assumed that the reverse is also true. A US citizen voluntarily acquiring British citizenship may lose his US citizenship; and a dual citizen who makes use of his British citizenship in certain ways, for example joining HM Forces, taking an oath of allegiance to Her Majesty and in certain circumstances exercising other rights or privileges of British citizenship, may jeopardise his US citizenship. The US authorities expect dual citizens to travel out of and into United States territory only on US passports. British citizens who are also US citizens are therefore advised to consult the US State Department (or if overseas a US Consul) before taking any action which might be regarded as inconsistent with their status as US citizens.

A British citizen may return and resume residence in Britain at any time, regardless of being a dual national, provided that he has not made a formal declaration of renunciation of British citizenship as described in paragraph one above.Such persons may in British law exercise any right possessed generally by British citizens, but of course it is their own responsibility to ascertain from the appropriate US authorities what effect, if any, their action may have on their status as a citizen of that country.


My question is, does this mean that I can become an Indian citizen and then travel to Britain using my British passport or would I need to get a visa on my Indian passport to travel. In other words, can I have the best of both worlds? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Many thanks
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If you obtain a regular Indian Citizenship/Passport through OIC channel, you will have to give up your British Citizenship/Passport. This will be required by India.

India doesnot accept true dual citizenship. That is why Govt. of India has now come up with OIC which is a kind of dual citizenship but not exactly!!

You will be fine to live in India or do anything else you want with just OIC status. The problems will arise only if you convert your OIC status into a normal Indian Citizenship eventually. Personally, I would remain on OIC status.

Ofcourse, if the Govt. of India can really change their constitution to allow dual citizenship - then there should be no problems to have both citzenships. They havenot done it so far!!
 
kuniyil said:
My question is, does this mean that I can become an Indian citizen and then travel to Britain using my British passport or would I need to get a visa on my Indian passport to travel. In other words, can I have the best of both worlds? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The Indian constitution does not favour Dual Citizenship.

There are some cases where if you follow the strict rule of the constitution, you can (I think) have dual citizenship. I think you have pointed out a possible example. But in practice this is untested, and having two passports is currently regarded as illegal - you could be put in jail as you wait years for your case to be heard. You need to give up your British citizenship, and not conduct affairs (such as obtaining a passport, or transacting as a British citizen) that can apear as exercising British citizenship rights, while holding full Indian Citizenship.

As far as this OCI thing goes, it is not citizenship - nor is it dual citizenship, there is no doubt about this. It gives you (as is currently proposed) a "U Visa", (and a separate card-certificate) and you MUST travel to India on your British passport.

PIO is similar, but instead of getting a Visa, you carry another card, which is not a passport. In both cases you need to travel to India on a British (or other) Passport, and you are never entitled to an Indian Passport.

OCI is marginally beter to PIO
 
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boggavarapu said:
What about British Citizens (with UK Passport) living outside the UK
with OCI status. Can it affect them too?

Thanks for the info.
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OCI, as per constitution of India can not be full citizenship, as we all agree. All these British press members should get proper legal advice before scaring others.

If OCI is not citizenship how can taking it affect you in any way? It is like getting a visa.

Again whether you are a resident or non resident similarly has no bearing on OCI.

(You know the Britishers created this Overseas Citizenship thing as a way of giving citizenship without giving citizenship)
 
basis said:
Please have a look at the link in this message on the other board -

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=4766&highlight=indian+citizenship+law

7.3 For the purposes of British nationality law, IOC is considered to be citizenship of another State. This will be relevant where British law requires the person to be stateless (as, for example, in Schedule 2 to the British Nationality Act 1981 or to have no citizenship or nationality apart from a qualifying form of British nationality (as, for example, in s.4B to the 1981 Act). In these cases, confirmation of non-acquisition of IOC should be sought where the applicant appears to satisfy the criteria in paragraph 7.2 above.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/in...licy_instructions/nis/chapter_14/annex_h.html
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Can't believe the UK govt has got this wrong too.

Just answer the following questions ...

1) which country is an OCI (not IOC) supposed to be a citizen of, because it is not India as per schedule 9 of the Indian Constitution.

2) when you confiscate the person's passport, OCI is no longer valid. How is the person supposed to enter India?

Put these questions to those idiots in the home office and see what they say!

My guess is that they haven't even read the details - this is why they call it IOC (as in International Olympic Committee ;)) - they are getting this confused with UK's Overseas Citizenship. Anyway - if you want to err on the side of caution, just go for a PIO)
 
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nationalityenquiries@ind.homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

Home Office Secretary,
United Kingdom
London

Dear sir,

With reference to your statement that Indian Overseas Citizenship - IOC (sic) is to be considered citizenship, I beg to differ.

your ref:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/in...licy_instructions/nis/chapter_14/annex_h.html

I understand that you have spoken to the Indian Government and am not aware of the details of these conversations. The information that is officially being given by the government, and reading the legislation, the constitution, and Indian Supreme Court judgements all clearly indicate that Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI) is not a form of citizenship nor does it enable dual citizenship. It confers no rights of citizenship. Technically it is a visa, and the status of the holder is a foreigner, with some additional rights in recognition of his/her Indian origin.

The following points should be noted - No passport is granted. A "U-Type" visa is provided on the holder's passport (British for example) just like a visitor’s visa. Without this British passport and Indian visa, an OCI holder can not even enter the country. The holder is technically considered a foreigner. The holder of OCI does not have any citizenship rights at all. If British citizenship is revoked, a holder of OCI, not having any other citizenship, would be rendered stateless. He/she would not be permitted even to enter India, as he/she has no passport. He/she would not be able to apply for citizenship he/she has no permit to stay in India.

Ignore for the moment the problem of legally entering and residing in India without a passport or residency, for example if entry was made through some sort of extra-legal rendition. If British citizenship is revoked due to a criminal issue, that issue must be disclosed on application for Indian citizenship and any application for full Indian citizenship must be refused in the light of this disclosure, regardless of the holder being otherwise legible for full citizenship. So not only is the person made stateless, but they are disqualified from claiming citizenship!

The web-site offers incorrect advice, is being used as the basis of a number of articles in the press, and impacts people making serious life decisions, and I request that you conduct your own independent investigation of OCI and appropriately remove or update the advice on the web site.

Now is a good time to update the advice - the site refers to IOC incorrectly (should be OCI) and contains information that is outdated - new amendments were passed in the later half of this year that contradict information on your website.

Removing the advice and suggesting British applicants of OCI conduct their own assessment is probably the safest suggestion.

Regards,

...
 
I have got news that the PIO scheme is to be phased out very soon.I wanted to apply for a PIO card my newborn daughter,the New York consulate informed me that PIO cards are no longer being issued.However the legislation will remain in place for now and people with PIO cards who do not convert to OIC can use them for their full validity.

(Point to be noted: THe consulate in New York has stopped issuing PIO cards for OIC,but have no idea when to start accepting OIC forms :) )
 
Oic

mangal969 said:
I have got news that the PIO scheme is to be phased out very soon.I wanted to apply for a PIO card my newborn daughter,the New York consulate informed me that PIO cards are no longer being issued.However the legislation will remain in place for now and people with PIO cards who do not convert to OIC can use them for their full validity.

(Point to be noted: THe consulate in New York has stopped issuing PIO cards for OIC,but have no idea when to start accepting OIC forms :) )
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These guys are amazing :) They stopped PIO since they do not want OCI to be PIO v2. They want OCI to be PIO v1

I called my local embassy and they informed me that they are still waiting for instructions from the MHA. When I asked them why emails are not being answered they replied that they cannot answer any emails until they receive instructions from the government of India. :mad:
 
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Slowly, the truth of "Dual" Citizenship is getting out there ...

http://www.business-standard.com/co...leftindx=2&lselect=3&chklogin=N&autono=207446

"It is time to take a step back and think in perspective about how far these investment barriers have gone mindlessly. Overseas Chinese investments into China account for most of the FDI into China, and the FDI inflows into China from this source has often constituted almost the entire Indian foreign exchange reserves for several years. It is time to remove illogical fetters on our NRI and OCB investors and truly make them feel welcome.

"Annual Pravasi Bharatiya Divas celebrations and feeble attempts at giving limited “overseas citizen of India” status to NRIs can hardly makegood these drawbacks."

...

Also add Sydney to the list of consulates: http://www.indianconsulatesydney.org/OCI.htm

New people: To date, no one has yet received an OCI, so don't rush!
 
Addendum to note for new people:No one has received an OCI yet and no one will until after PBD 2006.They say it will take 6-8 weeks anyways.

Embassies that are OCI-ready:
Wellington
Bahrain
Port of Spain
Chicago (Coming soon)
Sydney
A rather random list isn't it ?
 
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In a couple of weeks OCI should be available from the NY consulate.But an OIC takes around 8 weeks to process.So if there is a pressing need for you to go,you'll need to take a visa anyways.
It's too bad about the PIO card but make your own enquiries.Saying that PIO card is no longer available may just have been a gimmick for me to shell out $275 instead of getting a cheaper PIO card for my daughter.
 
desigal said:
If everything goes well, I would be a U.S. Citizen in a couple of weeks. I am from the NY/NJ area. I'm appalled to hear that NY consulate has stopped issuing PIO cards. This is unbelievable. If no OIC Or PIO, is the only option left for new citizens like us - is to apply for Indian visa to go to India?
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Well PIO and OCI are very recent things, people have always taken the tourist visa to visit India after they become citizens US or any other another country. A lot of people will still do that as not everyone has a need to stay in India for a long time, hold properties or take up employment. From US, 10 yr. tourist visa at $150 is good enough for a lot of people. There are also short term visas vailable at much less cost.

I have said it before that Indian bureaucrats and politician work under no vision and goals in mind. In my opinion, there should a true dual-citizenship. Visa-free entry for tourists from certain countries, and may be visa on arrival for some nationals. Then see the effect on the economic development.

So many countries in the SE asia are already doing this. Indian babus have mastered the art of not delivering anything much and keep promising the moon. They just want to keep the babus busy processing visa and stamping the passports! That gives them the perks and foreign posting, and above all the ultimate control!

India will have several versions of PIO's/OCI (which is a PIO v.2.0) before they will even contemplate a true dual-citizenship. Hey, they can keep collecting $$, keep babus busy and happy, and maintain control.
 
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