India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

The India Dual Citizenship will be Operational:

  • In 2003

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • In 2004

    Votes: 11 55.0%
  • Sometime after 2004

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • I am skeptical if this will happen

    Votes: 1 5.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
Editorial in Little India (Dec 28, 2004)

FYI
http://www.littleindia.com/december2004/FoolsGold.htm

=======================================================

Fool’s Gold By Achal Mehra
The promise of dual citizenship was nothing short of calculated political deception by the Indian government.

Overseas Indians who have been anxiously awaiting the introduction of dual citizenship relax. You have been had.

After tantalizing Indians in the diaspora for two years with its much-ballyhooed promise of dual citizenship, the Indian government has finally adopted rules governing what is now described as “overseas Indian citizenship,” which explicitly rule out the original promise of both dual nationality and dual citizenship.

Just so there is no mistaking of the new rules, applicants will not even get a passport. What they will receive — get this — is a certificate, and not a particularly attractive one at that.

As presently formulated, overseas Indian citizenship is nothing but a glorified PIO Card scheme, which was introduced to an resounding thud a few years earlier. In one important respect, overseas Indian Citizenship offers less than even the PIO Card, which was modeled after the U.S. Green Card. The Indian Embassy explains the distinction, “The essential difference between PIO Card and Registration Certificate is that while a PIO Card can also be used as a travel document, the Registration Certificate cannot be so used.”

After tantalizing Indians in the diaspora for two years with its much-ballyhooed promise of dual citizenship, the Indian government has finally adopted rules governing what is now described as "overseas Indian citizenship," which explicitly rule out the original promise of both dual nationality and dual citizenship.

The certificate is likely to meet the same dismal fate as the PIO Card, which had but a handful of takers from among the 22 million overseas Indians worldwide.

The Indian government has provided no explanation why dual citizenship, one of the central recommendations of the LM Singhvi Committee on the Indian Diaspora, was quietly abandoned. As recently as a week before the announcement of the rules on the overseas Indian citizenship certificate, several Indian leaders, including Jagdish Tytler, minister of state for Overseas Indian Affairs, as well as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, were touting dual citizenship among overseas Indian communities in Europe and America. Citizenship rules are ultimately within the province of the home ministry, which is headed by Shivraj V. Patil. Clearly both Tytler and Singh were blindsided by the new home ministry policy.

Overseas Indians might not have been as disappointed had they not been strung along these past two years into the delusion that dual citizenship was at hand. The promise was made with much fanfare at the first Pravasi Divas by then Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee in January 2003 and reaffirmed at the second Pravasi Divas in January 2004, soon after parliament passed revisions to the citizenship act.

It is now clear that the earlier promises were nothing short of calculated political deception, which is what makes it particularly hard to take. The government’s embarassment at its failure to deliver on its most visible promise to the Diaspora is reflected in the secrecy under which the rules were adopted. There were no blaring headlines, just quiet communiques to Indian embassies worldwide. And no government official seemed prepared to step forward to respond to Little India’s inquiries on the new rules.

The overseas Indian community is faced with two options. We should weigh a legal challenge to the current policy requiring us to surrender our Indian citizenship when we acquire foreign citizenship. A plausible legal case can be developed that the Indian government cannot strip an Indian citizen of his citizenship under either the Indian constitution or the revised Citizenship Act.

The second option is political. Overseas Indians attending the Pravasi Bhartitya Divas in Mumbai in January 2005 should plan a dharna when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Abdul Kalam make their appearance at the event. We may not succeed in securing dual citizenship, but we can at least demonstrate that the uniquely Indian political tactic finessed by the most famous of all overseas Indians, Mahatma Gandhi, still flows in our veins.


..- End Of Article....
 
The more I read about it, the more I am convinced that, OC is like green card issued by USA. I wonder why not issue a card instead of certificate....

It seems to support my idea that "Having OC, won't dilute/affect/influence the US citizenship in any shape or form."

Also at the bottom of the page on Consulate General of India, New York it says -
"Overseas Citizenship is not Dual Nationality : It may kindly be noted that Overseas Citizenship is not a full citizenship of India and, therefore, does not amount to dual citizenship or dual nationality. "

http://www.indiacgny.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=355
 
The latest news from Pravasi Diva abt the OC

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-984875,curpg-1.cms

Here is the snippet of article:

What exactly does 'overseas citizenship' imply for those who get it? On the downside, it means you would not be allowed to vote, run for political office or take government jobs. But on the positive side, there are a number of benefits to look forward to. Broadly, the overseas citizenship would put one on par with NRIs. Such 'citizens' can now travel without a visa to India and stay for over 180 days without having to register, which those holding a simple PIO card can't do. Also, dual-citizenship holders would be allowed to invest in agriculture, plantations and purchase property, which again is something PIOs can't do. Education at Indian institutes of higher learning would also be accessible. Considering that the fee is just $275, that doesn't seem like a bad deal.

The process of registering dual citizens has already begun although quite slow. Under the new law, citizenship would be granted on a case-by-case basis because of security concerns, the government has said. But registration procedures are being simplified and there is a possibility that certificates may be issued in smart-card form. Also, instead of three forms, a single user-friendly format would be evolved and notified.
 
Applied recently

I recently applied for my newborn daughter's OC as well as PIO card in San Francisco Consulate.

The most interesting thing I noticed as a difference between the two forms is that PIO card application form requires the thumb impression or sign of the applicant even if minor. The OC application form just contains a declaration from the parent and no where has any place for applicant's thumb impression or signature. I found that bit strange especially if OC is going to be a superset of PIO. Also I read somewhere that PIO is more like a travel doc whereas OC is just a registration. It might be interesting to see how this gets clarified in coming days.

The key difference is that PIO is renewable for a specific period of time like passports. You must renew it from time to time to keep it valid. OC is more like a once-in-a-lifetime declaration from Govt Of India that you are a PIO and hence entitled to certain benefits.

PIO is like a visa. It can be revoked under specific circumstances through administrative means. OC is more like a safe PIO which undergoes more scrutiny and cannot be revoked unless Govt Of India issues an order as stated by law. In other words, it will not be revoked unless there are specific more serious reasons. Thats also the reason why OC is valid for life whereas PIO card is like a renewable visa (long term though).

Practically there are no differences to holders of PIO and OC. Both can do the same thing. Except few minor limitations like plantation / agricultural holdings (which I believe will be removed over a period of time - doing so now will be political suicide).

Much has been said about PIO having to register and OC not having to register with the FRR office in India. What is not clarified is that this is a ONE TIME activity. A PIO card holder who has registered once for a 6+ month stay NEED NOT register again EVER in future unless details of registration change like permanent address etc. I think this aspect is completely missed out in many postings and websites. Also minors below 16 years of age are NOT required to register - makes life that much easier for families. The only thing about this registration is the HIV test report required during such registration (like a blood test to say you are not HIV positive).

In a nutshell, PIO and OC are one and the same. Both holders get identical privileges in all areas that really matters to PIOs. There will be no new passports issued to holders of OC even though some websites say so. The key idea is to emulate US GC like facility in a restricted form (only for people of desi origin) with the intent of encouraging NRIs to look back at India and help her develop. I believe this scheme (PIO as well as OC) is motivated more by China's success in attracting FDI from overseas Chinese rather than anything else.

Please refer the website of Ministry of Home Affairs in India for further details:
http://mha.nic.in
or specifically the law at
http://www.mha.nic.in/citizenship/acquire1.htm

- Raj
 
I think they should stop calling it citizenship becasue it isn't

Overseas Citizenship is not Dual Nationality



It may kindly be noted that Overseas Citizenship is not a full citizenship of India and therefore does not amount to dual citizenship or dual nationality.
 
Koolbreez said:
Overseas Citizenship is not Dual Nationality

It may kindly be noted that Overseas Citizenship is not a full citizenship of India and therefore does not amount to dual citizenship or dual nationality.


Correct. The OIC is exactly like a US Green Card. Almost all rights but cant vote, hold Govt office. Only difference is that unlike a GC you dont have to visit India once a year atleast to preserve it
 
OIC question

When you travel to India with an OIC card, are you treated as an Indian citizen at port of entry? Meaning, do you enter India as an American citizen or Indian citizen? Do you still need to carry you american passport ?

Also, I was reading about having to go in person to an Indian consulate to sign an oath, what is that you are agreeing to?

Thanks
 
You must carry your American passport. OIC's are supposed to be treated on par with regular Indian Citizens. Separate line for OICs ? Dunno

Read the application form, the oath is in there.
 
Oic

Thanks for the info Rahul. I understand OIC lets you be treated in par with Indians with some exceptions like voting, government jobs etc, but for immigration purposes, once in India are you treated as Indian citizen (if you enter with OIC) are an American citizen?
 
With an OIC

For investments and rest you are treated as an NRI , not a "regular" indian citizen
If you get arrested then certain benefits (like the consular officer visiting you , certain laws not applicable to you) are not a possibility as you are treated an Indian Citizen.

With OIC you cant vote, hold policy level jobs.

Difference between PIO/OIC

Can buy agricultural land with OIC
No 15 year expiry on OIC
Certificate issued with OIC passport

OIC is disappointing. It loses validity without your foreign citizenship. You are never
truly absorbed into the Indian system unlike other EU Citizenships (which are true dual citizenships)
 
ramamoor, I presume your daughter didn't have to go to consulate with you? Also, did the consulate people say OC registration document along with US passport is enough for travel to India?
 
Moving to India as an Overseas Citizen...

Hi all,
I am a little confused about the "Overseas citizenship" from India.
Let's assume that I get US citizenship, and then this "overseas citizenship".
1. At some time in future, can I return to India for good and take up employment there? And retire there?
2. Will I be eligible for my US retirement benefits (Social security, 401K, etc) if I move to India for an extended period of time?
3. Which country will I pay income tax, if I take up employment in India? Will I be taxed in both US and India (since I will basically be a US citizen)?
4. If I don't visit US for many years, will I risk losing my US citizenship?
5. For any reason in future, can I become a "regular" Indian citizen once again? (for example, by renouncing my US citizenship, will I be converted from "overseas" citizen to "regular" Indian Citizen?)

Thanks,
GCAwaited
 
GCAwaited, regarding your questions:

>> 1. At some time in future, can I return to India for good
>> and take up employment there? And retire there?


Yes, that's part of the benefits of OIC.

>> 2. Will I be eligible for my US retirement benefits (Social
>> security, 401K, etc) if I move to India for an extended
>> period of time?


As per the law, anyone who has worked and contributed SS taxes for 10 years is eligible to receive benefits upon retirement and the payments will be sent to your residence in any country. i.e. you don't necessarily have to be a US citizen/permanent resident (although in practice if you were not, then you would be highly unlikely to have worked for 10 years).
So the answer is, yes.

>> 3. Which country will I pay income tax, if I take up
>> employment in India? Will I be taxed in both US and India
>> (since I will basically be a US citizen)?


Probably in India only but check with an accountant. (note: US and India have a tax treaty)

>> 4. If I don't visit US for many years, will I risk losing my
>> US citizenship?


You can live your entire life outside the US and it will not be a cause for losing citizenship. Your citizenship can only be revoked if a) you obtained it fraudulently or b) you have undertaken activities to undermine the US government (i.e. secessionist/terrorist activities).

>> 5. For any reason in future, can I become a "regular"
>> Indian citizen once again? (for example, by renouncing my
>> US citizenship, will I be converted from "overseas" citizen
>> to "regular" Indian Citizen?)


Yes. Check with both the US Dept of State and the Indian Foreign Ministry for the procedure.

sam_c

Please note: the above information does not constitute legal advise and I hold no responsibility for its use.
 
What happened to Clause 9 of the law?

Could someone please tell me what happened to the law passed in Dec. 2003? It had the following clause:

"“9. In section 9 of the principal Act,—
(a) in sub-section (1), after the proviso, the following proviso shall be inserted, namely:—
"Provided further that after the commencement of the Citizenship
(Amendment) Act, 2003, any citizen of India who voluntarily acquires the
citizenship of a specified country shall not cease to be a citizen of India, if within six months thereof he makes an application for registration as an overseas citizen of India under sub-section (1) of section 7A, until such application is disposed of by the Central Government.";
(b) in sub-section (2) for the word "person", the words "citizen of India" shall be substituted.”

I downloaded that at the time - and was so happy about that. This is where one concluded that one would keep one's Indian passport, and perhaps get a stamp on it saying: "OIC".


However, from what I see today here, and at the Ministry of External Affairs website,

an Indian citizen who now gets citizenship of another country will LOSE Indian citizenship - and have to apply for OIC status.

Who changed what Parliament passed, and why did they do that to Indian citizens?

Please let me know. Thanks!


:confused:
 
bubbette,
I don't have an answer to your main question, but regarding:

"Who changed what Parliament passed, and why did they do that to Indian citizens?"

The sad reality of our way of governance in India is that each party that is in power does what is politically beneficial for it in the short term and there is no overall policy vision that goes beyond party interests and addresses the real needs of the nation (in this case: attracting CIO/NRI investments).

Thus, the original proposals for dual citizenship proposed by the Vajpayee government are significantly different than the actual implementation done by the current administration.

As for "why did they do it to Indian citizens?" -- there are doubtless many answers to it, but one that comes to mind in this context is that those affected do not have voting rights and so what do the politicians really care what we think? The original intent of the law was to provide an incentive to former Indian citizens who by and large have strong ties with the country, to invest in enterprises, stock markets and real estate and thereby improve the Indian economy -- it was not meant to be a mere favor, but somehow this distinction has been lost on those currently in power.

In conclusion, yes, the current implementation of the law does violate what the law states (as you pointed out) and that is illegal and can be challenged in the Supreme Court - by those who have the time, money and immense patience to bring about such a lawsuit.

sam_c
 
Thanks very much. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something very obvious. OK, that calls for a bit of citizen action.

Best regards
 
On the other hand, they DO say something about a passport at the Indian Consulate General in Australia, where they started taking applications.

http://www.indianconsulatesydney.or... - Registration as Overseas Indians amend.pdf

The difference of course is that you still have to LOSE your Indian citizenship, APPLY for it again, get this "certificate" and THEN apply for a new passport.

That's not what the 2003 law says. So I conclude that this is a bunch of lazy bureaucrats whose assumptions have not been challenged.

By the way, the registration has all stopped. See this at the Ministry of Home Affairs site:
"“Registration of overseas citizens of India (Section 7 A)

“THE OVERSEAS INDIAN CITIZENSHIP (OIC) SCHEME HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD TILL FURTHER ORDERS. NO APPLICATIONS FOR GRANT OF OIC MAY BE FILED. REVISED PROCEDURE AND FORMS SHALL BE POSTED IN DUE COURSE.”
http://www.mha.nic.in/citizenship/acquire1.htm
 
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