India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

The India Dual Citizenship will be Operational:

  • In 2003

    Votes: 4 20.0%

  • In 2004

    Votes: 11 55.0%

  • Sometime after 2004

    Votes: 4 20.0%

  • I am skeptical if this will happen

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
Open letter to GoI

Forum participants,

I have written down our thoughts and expressed them in the above letter (my last post). Please feel free to use this, chop/change, and circulate to your friends particularly if you know someone who is attending the PBD. (there is no copyright - it is just restating the views expressed by you all in this forum ;))

Also please send this or similar to the govt and your local consulate.

I, like you all am a firm believer that India's development can be greatly enhanced by participation of the Diaspora - so we need to get this message across.
 
Oci

PIO1 said:
Forum participants,

I have written down our thoughts and expressed them in the above letter (my last post). Please feel free to use this, chop/change, and circulate to your friends particularly if you know someone who is attending the PBD. (there is no copyright - it is just restating the views expressed by you all in this forum ;))

Also please send this or similar to the govt and your local consulate.

I, like you all am a firm believer that India's development can be greatly enhanced by participation of the Diaspora - so we need to get this message across.
Click to expand...


Pretty Good. Thanks.
 
Oci

mangal969 said:
First someone should call the bluff of the MOIA secretary on the delay of the whole process due to creation of "tamper proof forms".The forms have been up on the MHA site since early September .Nothing has been changed.So what exactly is he talking about ? The government should be made to realise that the PIO community isnt as gullible as the general popoulation of India so as to believe anything they have to say.
I would suggest instead of wasting time leaving your opinion with the embassies,e-mail "en masse" the President,PM and Chief Justice of India.I have e-mailed the MOIA secretary several times but have never received a response.Maybe the new MOIA minister will have an e-mail address up so it would be worth e-mailing him.
Click to expand...



I called the office to speak with the Secretary personally - no luck!!

Sent e-mail - no reply!!

Utterly disappointed and disheartened with the whole saga!!
 
PIO1 said:
Hipka, Others say you are nuts, but I don't think so. I say again there is no dual citizenship. The laws have not been modified to allow it. The provision for naturalisation has been there since 1955 and this will not change (though the period of residency may be reduced slightly).

If you apply for Indian citizenship, they will confiscate your passport. You may still be entitled to US citizenship, but once you action that entitlement (for example by naturalisation, or applying for a replacement passport), your Indian citizenship is revoked. This is the problem everyone has been talking about!!!!

I had an Indian passport soon after I was born, and was also a citizen of a foreign country by birthright. It was only when I applied for a foreign passport that my Indian citizenship was revoked. Even if my passport is confiscated by GOI through Indian naturalisation, I can still apply for a replacement to my foreign passport - but when I do, I must renounce my Indian citizenship again.

I say this from experience, after discussing this in detail with the consulate. If you have a US passport, and continue to use your Indian passport, you are committing an offence, your citizenship will be revoked and you could face jail. So please do not do this, as I continue to appreciate your contribution to this forum, and last I checked, they don't have broadband in Indian prisons ;)
Click to expand...

So basically the indian govt. is forcing you to revoke your foreign citizenship after getting indian citizenship. I am not thinking of applying for US citizenship so I guess I won't go to prison! Still I suggest you guys wait and see till OIC gets implemented.
 
hipka said:
So basically the indian govt. is forcing you to revoke your foreign citizenship after getting indian citizenship. I am not thinking of applying for US citizenship so I guess I won't go to prison! Still I suggest you guys wait and see till OIC gets implemented.
Click to expand...

When they implement OCI it will be implemented under the name of "Dual Citizenship" - just look at the official documents and GoI press releases to date.

I say, implement whatever you want, call it anything, but acknowledge this is not dual citizenship that was promised (the rules of OCI are there for all to see), and if it wasn't what was promissed, then give us the real thing, because we aren't idiots!

Hence the open letter to the GoI posted here and on: http://misrani.blogspot.com/2005/11/open-letter-to-government-of-india.html
 
PIO1 said:
When they implement OCI it will be implemented under the name of "Dual Citizenship" - just look at the official documents and GoI press releases to date.

I say, implement whatever you want, call it anything, but acknowledge this is not dual citizenship that was promised (the rules of OCI are there for all to see), and if it wasn't what was promissed, then give us the real thing, because we aren't idiots!
Click to expand...

The government (or atleast one intelligent babu) has acknowledged that in it's current form OCI does not amount to dual ctizenship.I forget exactly where.
The US department of state on it's India information page has also acknowledged OCI not to be a form of dual nationality pending final implementation of the scheme.
I e-mailed quite a few people regarding the starting of OCI but havent got any reply as yet :(.Looks like Jan 7th is the date to go.
 
Oic

mangal969 said:
The government (or atleast one intelligent babu) has acknowledged that in it's current form OCI does not amount to dual ctizenship.I forget exactly where.
The US department of state on it's India information page has also acknowledged OCI not to be a form of dual nationality pending final implementation of the scheme.
I e-mailed quite a few people regarding the starting of OCI but havent got any reply as yet :(.Looks like Jan 7th is the date to go.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't hold my breath to the January 7th as well. The PM will make the announcement on that date. He has been making announcements for the last 3 years. The question is when the scheme will be actually implemented.
 
Look at my U visa!

mangal969 said:
The government (or atleast one intelligent babu) has acknowledged that in it's current form OCI does not amount to dual ctizenship. I forget exactly where.
The US department of state on it's India information page has also acknowledged OCI not to be a form of dual nationality pending final implementation of the scheme.
Click to expand...

Most of us have worked out that OCI is not DC. I have no doubt as you say there is at least one intelligent babu in the Government who has said the same thing.

But the official government position, from the PM down, as currently expressed in official papers, is this is Dual Citizenship implemented!

My bet is on 7 Jan 2006, whenever he makes his speech, as in 2003, 2004 and 2005, the PM will stand and anounce the implementation of DUAL CITIZENSHIP. All the gullible people will clap. This will be the one tangible achievement of the government for NRIs the media will report.

6 years later, you or me will find ourselves at a small government office somewhere in India trying unsuccessfully to convince a govt clerk (who for some reason will not stop laughing) that in fact we are Indians, pointing to the "U" on our visas in our foriegn passports.
 
PIO1 said:
Most of us have worked out that OCI is not DC. I have no doubt as you say there is at least one intelligent babu in the Government who has said the same thing.

But the official government position, from the PM down, as currently expressed in official papers, is this is Dual Citizenship implemented!

My bet is on 7 Jan 2006, whenever he makes his speech, as in 2003, 2004 and 2005, the PM will stand and anounce the implementation of DUAL CITIZENSHIP. All the gullible people will clap. This will be the one tangible achievement of the government for NRIs the media will report.

6 years later, you or me will find ourselves at a small government office somewhere in India trying unsuccessfully to convince a govt clerk (who for some reason will not stop laughing) that in fact we are Indians, pointing to the "U" on our visas in our foriegn passports.
Click to expand...

You are very optimistic. You think it will be implemented in 6 years? ;)
I think the U visa means that the government has taken a 'U turn' on its earlier dual citizenship position.
 
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PIO1 said:
6 years later, you or me will find ourselves at a small government office somewhere in India trying unsuccessfully to convince a govt clerk (who for some reason will not stop laughing) that in fact we are Indians, pointing to the "U" on our visas in our foriegn passports.
Click to expand...

You forget about the OIC registration certificate :p and the OIC smart card :eek:
 
Anyone notice the language of the introductory text ?:

Based on the recommendation of the High Level committee on Indian Diaspora, the Government of India decided to grant Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI) commonly known as ‘Dual Citizenship’

So according to the government of india it's you and me that call this as dual citizenship not them !
Also the parity with NRI's does not extend to all PIO's but only those registered as an OCI !So the benefits arent automatic or irrespective of if you register or not.
 
The Great Indian Dual Citizenship Adventure - newest twist!

Read the bold text - did not see these before...

PM to launch dual citizenship scheme in January

Tuesday November 29 2005 00:00 IST

NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will hand out the first dual citizenship to a Person of Indian Origin (PIO) at a function at Hyderabad in January.

The light-blue four-page booklet carrying personal details will be supplemented by a permanent visa on the passport. The booklet will have all the advanced security features of Indian passports to prevent fraud.

The facility would be available to all those whose parents or grandparents migrated from India before 1950 excluding those who went to either Pakistan or Bangladesh. The Home Ministry expects a couple of lakh applicants.

Though holding dual citizenship will not make a person eligible to take part in elections or hold a constitutional post, the benefits include a lifetime multiple entry visa, permission to buy non-agricultural land and exemption from regularly reporting to the police while staying in India. The economic and educational rights would be the same as Non-Resident Indians (NRIs).

Top Home officials said although applications can be submitted at Indian missions, the processing work would be done in New Delhi keeping in mind security implications and lack of infrastructure at some missions.

The applications would be cleared by the intelligence agencies after which the documents would be issued and sent by post to the applicant. It is estimated that the process would take about a month.

The application form, unlike the one for awarding Person of Indian Origin (PIO) status, is much less complicated. The four-page application form can be downloaded from the internet.

The documents to be attached with the application include proof of the applicant's Indian origin, photographs, address, profession, and a declaration on criminal record, if any.
 
mangal969 said:
You forget about the OIC registration certificate :p and the OIC smart card :eek:
Click to expand...
:D True, I can just picture that government officer turning over the smart card, and showing the certificate to his colleagues, none of who will make any sense of either. That's why they need to give us a Visa as well - because they know the certificates will mean little to the desk officers we show them to at customs and offices... "very good, but where is your ration card?"
 
Angry as well

I share the anger and frustration of the gentlemen on this forum.

Whether you want to give dual citizenship or not, its completely against the law to mislead your diaspora by repeatedly use the word "Dual citizenship" in every communique.

I can respect a Govt.'s opinion that it is hesitant to give Dual citizenship, (although I dont agree with that thought process.)

But to purposefully mislead the population is absolutely criminal, and some kind of action is warranted on this. Going to the media with this might not be a bad idea.

The Govt. also needs to know that the Diaspora is alive to what they are trying to do, and knows the game. This is something which should be brought up in the PDB coming up.

Some people in this forum, agree with what the Govt is doing, i.e. implementing a Green card like scheme for PIOs, possibly a step for citizenship some day down the line (if the Constitution gets amended). Well, whatever, fine, if thats what they want to do, but for the love of God, stop calling it Dual citizenship !!!

This is an outrage. No other country in the world would do this to its citizens.

Some kind of action is warranted. I will email the above mentioned offices and will also leave voice messages on the Consulate phone, to let them know that people can see through their little game.
 
Lets go easy on them..

While it is agreed that the terms like "dual citizenship", "overseas citizens of India" etc are misnomers, let us be not as hostile or confrontational with GoI and the embassy staff. We have to really thank GoI for extending these benefits to NRIs and PIO non-Indian citizens. Only thing is we need to express out reservations about the terminology being used and some people may be misled into thinking that this is the real thing. But let us not loose sight of the fact that this is really something they are doing it as a favor to us and most of us, the non-Indian citizens, dont have rights to confront GoI.
 
With PIO1 on this issue

PIO1, I'm with you on a court case. Something needs to be done about this.

Also thanks for the letter you posted, I will amend it and post it also to some people I know in GOI.

This is a serious problem, willfully misleading people into believing you are implementing a Govt. policy which could affect their lives.

What if an NRI gives up his GC to obtain a citizenship because he/she believes they will have dual citizenship with India ? Although most people on this forum are well informed, most people out there are not.

Because the Govt. is repeatedly, and purposefully I believe using the word "Dual citizenship" in their official briefings. I also dont believe its co-incidental that this is happening.

Most Govt. officials are knowledgable enough to know that "Dual citizenship" in its true form is something most NRIs would love to have. They know most NRIs have emotional ties to the home country, and do they are using this word "citizenship" to tug at people. So they are baiting us.

Its one thing to have a policy to give or not give dual citizenship. Its quite a different thing to willfully mislead people. What if someone makes a life altering decision based on the Govt.'s half truth ?

This is a gross violation of people's trust and some legal noise needs to be made about it. Personally, Im in favour of writing a piece for Chidanand Rajghatta, who writes a lot on NRI issues.

Any other ideas are also welcome.
 
Oci

I have stopped believing all these press releases. We were given a date of 15th August, mid October, 14th November and now 7th January for the resumption of OCI. I am little intrigued by the lack of coordination between various embassies,MHA and Ministry of external affairs. On one hand NZ embassy is receiving applications; no embassy in North America have even updated their website or are aware of this process.

I have already done my part by making an application for 'dual citizenship'. It is now GOI's turn to do their part. Based on my reading I am not getting what I had for and I have more been than once made to believe that the OCI will be implemented shortly. I was very excited when I had made the application but I have begun to realise the lack of respect that GOI has towards the NRI's. All the official medium have a callous attitude towards us. None of my emails have been answered by local embassies, no voice mails are returned, am getting something different than what I applied and the government continues to give out half baked facts. Unfortunately if I had an option to withdraw the application I certainly would. I just feel cheated. It seems to me nothing more than a political gimmick and something to say at Pravasi Diwas. I wish I knew one of the person who is attending prawasi diwas and who can ask PM what the delay is all about and what the government has done in the last 3 years to implement dual citizenship. Rather everyone in the Prawasi Diwas will be clapping and cheering the PM; these are those NRI's who have been provided a free ticket to India since they have some political connection in the government.

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