India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

The India Dual Citizenship will be Operational:

  • In 2003

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • In 2004

    Votes: 11 55.0%
  • Sometime after 2004

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • I am skeptical if this will happen

    Votes: 1 5.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
MPotturi,

Thanks,
Yes, my spouse said the same thing too, and I went this morning and got a 6 month Visa, because I'm not going to believe and also don't know when the OCI will turn up!!!! It's not even dispatched from India yet according to the Status... So, I'll be leaving on Monday as planned.

Take care,
 
ASGK said:
Thanks,
Yes, my spouse said the same thing too, and I went this morning and got a 6 month Visa, because I'm not going to believe and also don't know when the OCI will turn up!!!! It's not even dispatched from India yet according to the Status... So, I'll be leaving on Monday as planned.

Take care,
Enjoy your trip man! These things (OCI) can wait for you but you don't have to screw up your happiness because them(OCI/MHA/consulate).
 
help me out...

people why does it have to be so confusing....

what is the difference between dual citizenship and oci...
i know pio is a green card rite?

which is faster,i am really heartbroken...
it been such a long time u know how it goes here,then u apply for n400 and that by itself is a long battle...i am hoping to get my oath june 21st....
after oath say 3 weeks for passport...
i just wanna get back to india asap...what is the best way can i just apply for a oci or pio and leave for india...
i seriously wanna spend atleast 2 years in india....

plz guide me in this....
also if i take a visitors visa and go how long can i stay in india.....
is there any particular visa like h1 b if i want to work in india?

plz reply so any questions /queries....
 
Foreign Credit card and Indian Proof of ID may ring some alarm bells....

Maybe foreign DL/Passport/OCI card should be enough.
 
query11 said:
people why does it have to be so confusing....

what is the difference between dual citizenship and oci...
i know pio is a green card rite?
A PIO is a 15 year Green Card with one time registration requirements.An OCI is a green card with lifelong validity and no registration requirements.Dual citizenship is a non-existant entity as far as India goes.
which is faster,i am really heartbroken...
it been such a long time u know how it goes here,then u apply for n400 and that by itself is a long battle...i am hoping to get my oath june 21st....
after oath say 3 weeks for passport...
i just wanna get back to india asap...what is the best way can i just apply for a oci or pio and leave for india...
i seriously wanna spend atleast 2 years in india....
You cant apply for either unless you have your passport.Right now PIO is faster but by the time you get your passport OCI may be quicker than what it is today.
plz guide me in this....
also if i take a visitors visa and go how long can i stay in india.....
is there any particular visa like h1 b if i want to work in india?

plz reply so any questions /queries....
Visitors visa-As long as the Visa is valid.FRRO registration compulsory within 2 weeks of arrival if stay is beyond 6 months.You can obtain new visas for continued stay in India from the FRRO.

Employment visa-Can be taken from India.Need definite employment letter etc. to get the visa.

If you want to go in for employment OCI is the safest bet.You can always leave on a visitor visa and apply for an OCI on reaching India and avoid registration.You can also apply for a PIO card and get registered at the same time.
 
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ASGK said:
Thanks,
Yes, my spouse said the same thing too, and I went this morning and got a 6 month Visa, because I'm not going to believe and also don't know when the OCI will turn up!!!! It's not even dispatched from India yet according to the Status... So, I'll be leaving on Monday as planned.

Take care,

Enjoy your trip...but if you plan to stay beyond 6 months what you can do is inform Ms Thekkat and see if she will hold the OCI card back for you.Worst case scenario apply for a duplicate once you hit India.But do these stunts only if you want to stay beyond 180 days.Otherwise take OCI when you come back..it wont go anywhere
 
gotia said:
as for as i know best thing for identity is
state driving lience
incometax PAN card
both will eliminate lot of confusation
It is difficult/impossible to get a PAN card/state DL if you do not have residency or residential address (with proof) in India.
 
Minor clarification

mangal969 said:
A PIO is a 15 year Green Card with one time registration requirements.An OCI is a green card with lifelong validity and no registration requirements.

I would amend that to say PIO and OCI are "like" green cards in that they allow you unfettered passage between the two countries for the period of their validity. So, they are more like long-term visas with additional benefits for commerce/education/employment in India and differing registration requirements as indicated by mangal.

Howere "unlike" green cards which are basically "permanent resident cards" in the case of the US and which require you to be permanent residents of the US, PIO and OCI cards do not require you to be permanent residents of India.
 
PIO1 said:
It is difficult/impossible to get a PAN card/state DL if you do not have residency or residential address (with proof) in India.
As for i know
PAN card is mailed to address you give.
may take longer time but some one can care of mail your are fine.
i did it and got it.

for D/L proof of residence which they consider are
any utility bill.
indian govt. incomtax web site (i have to conform) datails about PAN card.
 
immuser said:
I would amend that to say PIO and OCI are "like" green cards in that they allow you unfettered passage between the two countries for the period of their validity. So, they are more like long-term visas with additional benefits for commerce/education/employment in India and differing registration requirements as indicated by mangal.

Howere "unlike" green cards which are basically "permanent resident cards" in the case of the US and which require you to be permanent residents of the US, PIO and OCI cards do not require you to be permanent residents of India.
MY understanding

OCI is Green Card minus Residence
 
Proxy OCI pickup at CGINY

Does anyone here have any experience of or heard of anyone picking up OCI card and stickers for their spouse/children/parents by proxy at CGI NY?

From Western New York, it is a 8 hr drive or an expensive plane ride to nyc.
So, want to see if I can travel alone and pick up cards/stickers for family and in-laws.

Do you think a notarized letter from the other adults authorizing me to pick up their cards/stickers on their behalf be sufficient ?

Any suggestions will be appreciated.
 
mangal969 said:
A PIO is a 15 year Green Card with one time registration requirements.An OCI is a green card with lifelong validity and no registration requirements.Dual citizenship is a non-existant entity as far as India goes.

You cant apply for either unless you have your passport.Right now PIO is faster but by the time you get your passport OCI may be quicker than what it is today.

Visitors visa-As long as the Visa is valid.FRRO registration compulsory within 2 weeks of arrival if stay is beyond 6 months.You can obtain new visas for continued stay in India from the FRRO.

Employment visa-Can be taken from India.Need definite employment letter etc. to get the visa.

If you want to go in for employment OCI is the safest bet.You can always leave on a visitor visa and apply for an OCI on reaching India and avoid registration.You can also apply for a PIO card and get registered at the same time.

Folks, new on this forum. I have a quick question. OCI status gives one a chance to apply for Indian citizenship after 5 years provided you have been in India for 1 of those 5 years. If one regains Indian citizenship that way, and if you cannot lose US citizenship unless you specifically renounce it, don't you end up with true dual citizenship? Am I missing something obvious here? :confused:
 
NCTarheel said:
Folks, new on this forum. I have a quick question. OCI status gives one a chance to apply for Indian citizenship after 5 years provided you have been in India for 1 of those 5 years. If one regains Indian citizenship that way, and if you cannot lose US citizenship unless you specifically renounce it, don't you end up with true dual citizenship? Am I missing something obvious here? :confused:

No, you're right. The same applies to Canadian citizenship, which you actually have to go to court to lose, if you really, really, want to do that. It's an interesting problem, and one which I don't believe our babus have considered, or are even aware of. Perhaps the situation has never arisen till now, or perhaps people might just get Indian citizenship and keep quiet about the rest. We may start hearing about this after 5 years. If the Indian government has any sense (and so far they haven't displayed much), they'd just change the Constitution to allow real dual citizenship, and be done with it.
 
Hotdiggety said:
No, you're right. The same applies to Canadian citizenship, which you actually have to go to court to lose, if you really, really, want to do that. It's an interesting problem, and one which I don't believe our babus have considered, or are even aware of. Perhaps the situation has never arisen till now, or perhaps people might just get Indian citizenship and keep quiet about the rest. We may start hearing about this after 5 years. If the Indian government has any sense (and so far they haven't displayed much), they'd just change the Constitution to allow real dual citizenship, and be done with it.


Please see the section on "Acquisition" of Indian Citizenship at the Ministry of Home Affairs, India at:

http://www.mha.nic.in/citi.htm

The procedure stipulates, among other requirements:

"The applicant is then required to furnish through the State Government, a certificate of the renunciation of his foreign citizenship issued by the mission of the concerned country ..."

-x-

Per the US State Department:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

"A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below."

-x-

Clearly, a US consulate will not provide the certification required by the Indian authorities unless a renunciation as required by US law is executed.

Therefore, a loop-hole does not exist whereby, presently, one can hold both US and Indian citizenship.
 
gc2cz said:
Therefore, a loop-hole does not exist whereby, presently, one can hold both US and Indian citizenship.

Which, of course, will mean that very few people will become Indian citizens again.

I cannot for the life of me understand why the Indian government is so dead set against people actually holding real dual citizenship. What do they think could possibly happen?
 
You are grossly underestimating the intelligence of legal draftsmen in the Law and Parliamentary Affairs Department in India. Legislation in India is quite well drafted and is on par with legislations anywhere else in the world. So, as gc2ca rightly points out, they have taken sufficient care to eliminate obvious loopholes.

True dual citizenship is fraught with inherent problems. A country of which you are a citizen naturally demands complete allegiance of the indivual to that country and being a citizen of two countries has to split your allegiance.

The United States while acknowledging that dual nationality can exist does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. U.S. laws also do not mention dual nationality.

So, while I would like to have true dual citizenship, I can see why it is not easy to enact legislation to support it.

Quoting from the U.S. State Department web site:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

"The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance."
 
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immuser said:
You are grossly underestimating the intelligence of legal draftsmen in the Law and Parliamentary Affairs Department in India. Legislation in India is quite well drafted and is on par with legislations anywhere else in the world. So, as gc2ca rightly points out, they have taken sufficient care to eliminate obvious loopholes.

True dual citizenship is fraught with inherent problems. A country of which you are a citizen naturally demands complete allegiance of the indivual to that country and being a citizen of two countries has to split your allegiance.


Oh please! I live in Canada, where a substantial part of the population have dual citizenship with the countries where they immigrated from. I know one person of Pakistani origin, who has four passports, including British, Canadian, and American. None of these people, or their countries of citizenship, have any difficulty with this.

The Indian constitution has been changed 96 times since 1950, often for trivial reasons. It is the most amended constitution in the world. It would be easy for the Indian government to remove the offending dual nationality provision, if that's what they wanted to do. I seriusly doubt that they'd have anything but overwhelming support for it. Instead, they've taken 10 years, with lots of false promises, raised expectations, and false starts to come up with what? A visa that they're calling dual citizenship!

The Indian bureaucracy is probably the most controlling in the world, for a democratic country. They don't want to just let go, and let people go about their business freely. That's all that this is about. So yes, since their purpose seems to be to obfuscate, confuse people, and delay what actually should be done, they're doing a great job with their legislation, because that's exactly what it does.
 
Hotdiggety said:
Oh please! I live in Canada, where a substantial part of the population have dual citizenship with the countries where they immigrated from. I know one person of Pakistani origin, who has four passports, including British, Canadian, and American. None of these people, or their countries of citizenship, have any difficulty with this.

The Indian constitution has been changed 96 times since 1950, often for trivial reasons. It is the most amended constitution in the world. It would be easy for the Indian government to remove the offending dual nationality provision, if that's what they wanted to do. I seriusly doubt that they'd have anything but overwhelming support for it. Instead, they've taken 10 years, with lots of false promises, raised expectations, and false starts to come up with what? A visa that they're calling dual citizenship!

The Indian bureaucracy is probably the most controlling in the world, for a democratic country. They don't want to just let go, and let people go about their business freely. That's all that this is about. So yes, since their purpose seems to be to obfuscate, confuse people, and delay what actually should be done, they're doing a great job with their legislation, because that's exactly what it does.

No one is denying the existence of people with multiple nationalities. By the same token, no one can deny that the concept can lead to problems for some not all individuals. Even CIC Canada warns you of possible disadvantages and did not allow it until 1977.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/dualci_e.html

I am not saying that it is not possible or not desirable for India to allow true dual citizenship. I would like to carry an Indian passport alongwith my US passport too. I am just saying that it is not unreasonable for a country to drag its heels on a matter such as this.
 
immuser said:
No one is denying the existence of people with multiple nationalities. By the same token, no one can deny that the concept can lead to problems for some not all individuals. Even CIC Canada warns you of possible disadvantages and did not allow it until 1977.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/dualci_e.html

I am not saying that it is not possible or not desirable for India to allow true dual citizenship. I would like to carry an Indian passport alongwith my US passport too. I am just saying that it is not unreasonable for a country to drag its heels on a matter such as this.

The warnings you're quoting are just standard butt-covering by these governments. Their lawyers have told them to put these things up just so they can say "we told you so" in case there are any problems. They mean nothing beyond that. US and Canadian government web-sites routinely put out all sorts of warnings, from the evils of aspertame, to the dangers of being out in the sun too long.

The Indian bureaucracy drags its heels on everything, so they're just staying true to form with this, I suppose. Indian legislative history is filled with reams of stupid laws and regulations, for which the only purpose seems to be to maintain bureaucratic control over the population. Independent India has been held back only by the existence of its oppressive bureaucracy. Indians want their country to be a super-power, and it clearly has the potential to be just that. However, it isn't going to happen if we condone the actions of an oppressive bureaucracy, which is only interested in its own power.
 
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